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[Request] A "Cancel last skill" button. Or "Reallocate"

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Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.15 09:15:00 - [1] - Quote Hello there, i think a lot of people may find that function usefull. Or at least re-assuring This thread is in two steps. A basic, free-for-all options that would allow someone to cancel his last skill upgrade as long as he doesnt launche a game or wait more than X amount of time. This has the simple role of avoiding ruining SP by being a bit too fast on the trigger. With the new SP income rate, it could be very depressing to spend 300k SP (or worse) on the wrong skill for a few second of mis-attention. Now, suggestion for AUR item. Some sort of "reallocate" SP pack that would allow you to strip SP from some skills in order to put them back somewhere else. You could do 100K 200K etc... to 2 millions SP for various AUR prices. Feels like a good way to make money without unbalancing the game. Could be very appreciated by casuals who may not have the time to do various characters and would allow them to try something else. Thoughts people ?
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.10.15 10:41:00 - [2] - Quote New Eden, where EVE and DUST operates, is all about living with the consequences of your actions. There is no undo.
Governor Odius Doomheim 177	Posted - 2012.10.15 12:19:00 - [3] - Quote More importantly, there is no downside to having a skill. There's no limit on how much SP you can have so there's never a reason so untrain a skill.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.15 12:29:00 - [4] - Quote i can see what you mean regarding the re-allocate AUR items. But for the "cancel previous action", keep in mind that in EVE you DONT spend all your SP at once, you skill over a define period of time. Thus, seeing you made a mistake after 15 minutes of a 7 day skill isnt a big deal. In Dust on the other hand, spending 2 millions SP on the wrong skill is done in an instant. Also, the "there's no such thing as wasted SP" isnt very smart. Spending SP in something you dont use is a waste for a while.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 136	Posted - 2012.10.15 18:14:00 - [5] - Quote I too have wanted this item/option, especially for a beta. But, I have to agree that in the eve universe you don't get to 'unlearn' anything. Which is what skill are - learning. However, if you could earn alot of SP then save your current condition in a clone and then transfer back to that backup mental image to try something else - keep in mind you would be going back in terms of any new skills or SP you gained. I could see that. Maybe in the future when we keep track of clones.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.15 18:54:00 - [6] - Quote I know someone who spent 1.5 mil SP last build... On the WRONG Dropship. I agree with the "cancel last skill" button. It has no drawbacks.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.10.15 19:41:00 - [7] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Hello there, i think a lot of people may find that function usefull. Or at least re-assuring This thread is in two steps. A basic, free-for-all options that would allow someone to cancel his last skill upgrade as long as he doesnt launche a game or wait more than X amount of time. This has the simple role of avoiding ruining SP by being a bit too fast on the trigger. With the new SP income rate, it could be very depressing to spend 300k SP (or worse) on the wrong skill for a few second of mis-attention. Now, suggestion for AUR item. Some sort of "reallocate" SP pack that would allow you to strip SP from some skills in order to put them back somewhere else. You could do 100K 200K etc... to 2 millions SP for various AUR prices. Feels like a good way to make money without unbalancing the game. Could be very appreciated by casuals who may not have the time to do various characters and would allow them to try something else. Thoughts people ? Just last night I spent 90K sp on a skill set I really didnt need to when I was tripping! Man I felt stupid after that!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.15 19:52:00 - [8] - Quote I support this. +1 I hate it when people point out the "living with the consequences of your actions" thing; any preceding action done as a way to undo a consequence is itself a consequence. If you spend real money to reallocate SP, then your consequence is that you lose real money.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.15 20:11:00 - [9] - Quote Nope No undo button Why should anyone be able to change from a fully speced out assault be able to whack it all into AV? it isnt MAG and its a cheap gimmick for those who **** up and put SP in the wrong place Swapping millions of SP into other things on a whim
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.10.15 21:02:00 - [10] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Nope No undo button Why should anyone be able to change from a fully speced out assault be able to whack it all into AV? it isnt MAG and its a cheap gimmick for those who **** up and put SP in the wrong place Swapping millions of SP into other things on a whim OP said LAST Skill! Not all skills!

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.15 23:10:00 - [11] - Quote I really don't see the problem with a full respecialization as long as it can't be done too often, or it its very costly. The only way it should present a problem is if what the person is respecializing into is overpowered, but that wouldn't be because of the respec option that its be overpowered. Specializing into something OP, or respecializing from something else OP is equally bad, I don't see why respecializing would be any worse.
Mobius Kaethis Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 306	Posted - 2012.10.16 01:19:00 - [12] - Quote Sure. Let people respec but take away half of their total SP for the privilege. The process of making you forget and relearn information is an imperfect science in New Eden and only the mad or foolish would attempt it. Capsuliers, with their lower risk life style almost never take this option. The complexities of the skills they are learning are so complex that doing so results in a total loss of all accumulated knowledge including the pilots name (character deletion). Dust mercs however, with their perchant for homicide and complete disregard for personal safety have fewer qualms with memory wipes. Additionally the skills of a mercenary are much less technical allowing some information to be retained during a memory wipe. The Caldari Empire has even perfected a way of partial transferring the accumulated knowledge of another merc to the one that has just been wiped. All such memory wipes utilize salvaged sleeper tech thus increasing the chance of a 514 related event.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.16 11:34:00 - [13] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Nope No undo button Why should anyone be able to change from a fully speced out assault be able to whack it all into AV? it isnt MAG and its a cheap gimmick for those who **** up and put SP in the wrong place Swapping millions of SP into other things on a whim OP said LAST Skill! Not all skills! Nope i wouldnt even allow that If you put SP into wrong skill tough luck Cause and effect - get used to it
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 192	Posted - 2012.10.16 12:09:00 - [14] - Quote I'd agree with replacing the last skill within a specific time. Say you have 30mins to change your mind or something. I don't see it as an issue at all. I'm not for adding in any form or respec, but being able to change your skill once within a given window is fine if you ask me. Just don't make it possible to do it with any skill an unlimited amount of times. I'd agree to a full respec within beta ONLY however, with the current crappy SP gain and new skills being added that don't necessarily work. I've got hundreds of thousands of SP in scanning and it doesn't even work.... I makes sense to have the option in beta, but I wouldn't want to see a full respec in live.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.16 15:04:00 - [15] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Sentient Archon wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Nope No undo button Why should anyone be able to change from a fully speced out assault be able to whack it all into AV? it isnt MAG and its a cheap gimmick for those who **** up and put SP in the wrong place Swapping millions of SP into other things on a whim OP said LAST Skill! Not all skills! Nope i wouldnt even allow that If you put SP into wrong skill tough luck Cause and effect - get used to it Bit harsh on that one dude.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.17 12:09:00 - [16] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Sentient Archon wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Nope No undo button Why should anyone be able to change from a fully speced out assault be able to whack it all into AV? it isnt MAG and its a cheap gimmick for those who **** up and put SP in the wrong place Swapping millions of SP into other things on a whim OP said LAST Skill! Not all skills! Nope i wouldnt even allow that If you put SP into wrong skill tough luck Cause and effect - get used to it Bit harsh on that one dude. Ment to be harsh All games do these days is hold your hand and make it easy for you if you make a mistake
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.18 17:33:00 - [17] - Quote Harshness for the sake of harshness, I don't see the point. Its just inconveniencing people in something that is suppose to be fun just you can brag about how hardcore you are for playing this game. If someone picked the wrong skill and realized "oops I picked the wrong skill" right then, how does making them have to stick with it make the game better, or more fun? It doesn't. If its for some sense of "realistic consequence", consider you can refund something you buy in a real life store if you haven't opened it and still have the receipt (many cases even after you open it).
Goric Rumis Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2012.10.18 18:06:00 - [18] - Quote One way of doing this is to offer an item that takes one level off any skill at a set AUR price. So if you just picked up a 143K skill and you're not wealthy, you might just live with the consequences, but as the SP cost goes up the relative value of the item (or service, as the case may be) increases. Recouping 2M+ SP from a single skill level might be worth, say, 10,000 aurum, whereas recouping 250K SP wouldn't. Anyway, I'm getting off topic. I don't find it particularly problematic to offer a chance to refund the last skill within 5 minutes. As long as you lose the undo if you do pretty much anything else--go into a game, plug in an implant (which for all we know might depend on skills in the future), purchase an item, modify a fitting, and certainly if you buy another skill. No buying four levels of a skill, realizing it's the wrong one and then undoing all four levels. Just learn from it and pay more attention before you hit X a dozen times straight.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1594	Posted - 2012.10.18 19:50:00 - [19] - Quote Live with the consequences of your choices. If your consequences are not permanent, then your choices have no meaning. Eve Online operates under this rule and CCP made it abundantly clear last year that Dust will operate under this same principle.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.18 20:33:00 - [20] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Live with the consequences of your choices. If your consequences are not permanent, then your choices have no meaning. Eve Online operates under this rule and CCP made it abundantly clear last year that Dust will operate under this same principle. 1_ You are making a false distinction about what is a consequence and what is not a consequence. Choosing to redistribute skill points, and paying the price and penalty of that choice is just as much a choice with consequences, and to suggest otherwise would be a very arbitrary distinction. 2_ Making people have to live with the consequences of their actions is great when its about player politics and the persistent universe, but not so much with skills, and such a restriction doesn't make the game better or more enjoyable. I don't see the value of forcing players to stick with a choice that was made uninformed; every time you decide to spend skill points to get a new weapon type, or new vehicle type (if there is no militia version), you are making an uninformed decision because its totally new to you and you might have never had a chance to try it to even know if you like it. 3_ If EVE online was as you described, this would not exist. 4_ The whole "meaning" thing is fuzzy. Some hippy could argue that things only have meaning because they aren't permanent, and we die, thus making our lives more precious... somehow, so it could be argued that something being permanent makes it meaningless. Someone can say that we're all going to die, and anyone your actions effect will eventually die, and eventually all humanity will be extinct, so nothing we do has any meaning. "Meaning" used in this context is used to mean value, but value is completely subjective; people say diamonds are precious and stuff, but to me its just an overrated pretty rock with some kind of interesting physical properties, among a big list of pretty rocks. If ANYTHING gives your current skill configurations meaning, its the fact that you had to grind your way to get those skill points, its the time and effort you put into it. A respec would not take that away, the time and effort you spent to earn them won't become undone, you don't just get a bunch of skill points for free; the skill points would only be converted to a different configuration of skills. You would still have had to grind your way to get the new skill configuration you respecialized to if you were working towards that from the beginning, so either way time and effort is spent.

Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.10.18 20:57:00 - [21] - Quote Having skill points spent not finalized till log off or entering a game could work. Then there is time to fix a mistake, but if the skill is ever used it is there forever. Something similar for accidental char delete would also be good, hitting wrong button and removing a two year old character would really suck. Neural remap doesn't change sp spent. Buying sp reset with aur was one of the things mentioned around time of Jita riots as potentially destroying game. Resetting a mistake you noticed within a few minutes or hours would be a good thing. Buying a character reset with aur would not. When I was new to EvE I trained the wrong shield skill to level 5, remote repair instead of one to unlock shield booster. I lived with 512k sp useless skill for almost two years, then trained logistics cruisers. So I know how it sucks to train the wrong skill.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.10.18 21:18:00 - [22] - Quote Quote of post from top hit on eve fourom when searching for sp reset. posted by Tippia on feature and ideas eve forum "Standard copypasta for skill remaps: It removes the point of having skills to begin with. It removes the point of having attributes. It removes attribute implants from the game. It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups. It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character. It removes planning and choice and consequences. It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas. It kills character trading. It massively boosts older characters over new ones. It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do." end quote This seems to be a pretty common answer on EvE forums I still think a undo for mistake caught right away would be good though.
Goric Rumis Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2012.10.19 23:08:00 - [23] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: Resetting a mistake you noticed within a few minutes or hours would be a good thing. Buying a character reset with aur would not. Especially given that, unlike EVE, we're spending the whole chunk at once. If you start training the wrong skill in EVE and notice within 10 minutes, you've lost 10 minutes of training time. If you do it in DUST, you might have lost 2 weeks. I'm flat-out against a full character reset. I'm not invested in my idea of single-level refunds at exorbitant AUR prices, but it's a solution I wouldn't get upset about. If someone wanted to spend $2000 to completely reshape a DUST character, I'd let them. They'd be paying for my play time.
Waruiko DUST G I A N T 90	Posted - 2012.10.20 00:36:00 - [24] - Quote I don't think un-training skills would work very well and could be abused greatly but it could be done I suppose if you could have partial training in a skill level like in EVE. If you capped it at say 100K SP a week or Month or whatever the right time frame is then let us roll back our SP in blocks it might work. The partially trained skill shouldn't actually do anything and those yet to be rolled back SP should sit 'useless' till retrained or finished being removed and relocated.


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