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Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.10 16:19:00 - [1] - Quote In this codex build, I have been rather busy pushing myself to learn as much about the nova knife as possible, train all skills that compliment it as well as understand what it really takes to become an effective ninja knifer with this weapon. I will try to be as unbiased as possible as well as honest because I am writing this down from my own direct experience. This diary is meant specifically to share my experience will anyone out there who is looking to specialize into the nova knife but need a second opinion from someone who has already gone through with it. Please note that this is not a feedback thread. This is, as the title of the thread implies, a diary of my progress. First off, I want to say that starting off as a rookie with the nova knife (to become a ninja knifer) has to be the most frustrating experience I have ever encountered. When I first started down this path, I started it with the mentality that I have made up my mind and I will go into this niche profession regardless of the hardships that come with it. Once I started, I was still limited in terms of current overall skillpoints and thus gear. Here are the disadvantages that I have or had: 1. Knife is of limited strength. 2. Profile signature is very large with militia scout suit. 3. Speed and stamina is very limited to start. 4. Ninja Knifer Specialization limits my application to certain maps. 5. I die often and earn miniscule SP from just kills alone (ie: 600-800 SP per match). 1) Because I have started off with a rather weak nova knife, my first priority was to train up Nova Knife Operation to at least level 3, Weaponry to level 3, and Sidearm Upgrades if possible since the nova knife is affected by the sidearm damage mods. During this progression I had to compensate for the weak knife by combing my knife attack with the melee attack to make sure I have dealt enough damage. Not only that, I also had to practice timing the charge up of the nova knife with my attack. As of right now, my nova knife is no longer weak. I appear to have trained up sufficient skill levels to one-hit-kill assault mercs without needing the melee, although I still use the melee for good measure. But then again it could be that they were already injured before I ran into them. Not only that but I can finally use the advanced nova knife which has a 1 second charge up time compared to standard nova knife's 1.5 second charge up. The prototype has a charge up of only 0.5 seconds with damage up to 190 HP. That's basically the total EHP of my scout suit. 2) When I started with the militia scout suit, my skills for the profile were limited and my dropsuit would thus light up like a Christmas tree at night in the enemy's tacnet. Because of this, I had to avoid running through open areas and stay behind hills and structures to help mask my profile a bit. So far, I have trained up Dropsuit Command to Level 5 and Profile Dampening to Level 3. However, I don't feel any different. I have avoided open areas as usual because of the shadow-rendering issue and thus I get the feeling that the profile is still not reducing as it should. But then again, I have managed to sneak up on a few players successfully so maybe it has worked and I just barely noticed it. Still have to train up some more on the dampening. 3) As of right now, my speed is still the same as I have not trained up on it and my stamina is still limited because I am still using militia stamina recovery mods. My skills are still limited here. But so far, my running seems to be effective as I can around hills, ridges, and structures while outpacing my opponents. Several times now, enemy mercs have tried to chase me but ended up losing me in the twists and turns while my stamina recovery mods gave me the extra boost I needed. 4) To specialize in the nova knife means to limit my use in the battlefield. Many scouts would usually fit a submachine gun or a shotgun for close quarter combat while other scouts would fit a sniper rifle for open field combat. The ninja knifer is limited to close quarter combat and thus only effective inside compounds with winding corridors and other structures with random crates lying around so that the ninja knifer has plenty of cover to compensate. 5) SP gain is abysmal here. The purpose of a ninja knifer is to just kill up close and personal. Although I can hack as usual to assist and gain more SP that way, the hacking time is limited and thus exposes me too much to enemy mercs looking for me. I often die before I can hack an objective or a CRU because there was always that one random running about who accidentally runs into me. During my experience I have learned many things here that have helped me progress more into the specialized role that is so underutilized that it's a niche profession of its own. The first thing I had to do was unlearn everything I had learned as an assault from the prior builds. I can't just be running out there and go "LEEERROYYYYY JENKINNNNNSSSSSS" on the enemy like a typical assault. The scout suit is not designed for that and sure as hell not the nova knife. Second thing I had to do was learn patience. I got pretty frustrated when I didn't encounter the enemy very often because I kept hiding as I should and even if I did run into someone, the SP gain from the kill is minimal. Then I had to consider how to get behind the enemy if I do see them assuming they didn't see me first. Even after that preparation, I have only shot to get it right or else I'm dead by their SMG and that is assuming your target is not leading you into an ambush. Third thing I had to do was forget about SP and ISK. My job is to help my team by being a complete pest to the enemy. Imagine you see your team being annoyed by that one scout who seems to nova knife your team mates every now and then and can't seem to catch up to him as he does hit-n-run tactics. If you wish to be a ninja knifer, you have to forget about SP and ISK gains.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.10 16:20:00 - [2] - Quote Another thing I had to learn was the use of the latters in large compounds. Those things are a godsend because it gives you the advantage of seeing a larger part of the facility so you can picture where to go. I could press the Down button to open the overview, but the map can't zoom in close enough and even then it's a bit disorienting switching from the overview to normal view. Then there is the adrenaline rush. For some reason I seem to feel it more often than when I was an assault player because I have only one try to kill my enemy, my ISK/SP gains are minimal and thus barely get by replacing only 1 suit per match, and then having to get out of dodge once I complete or fail my kill. Not only that, I also have to suffer the stigma that comes with being a ninja knifer. It is such an under appreciated profession that people often look down on you for bringing a knife to a gun fight. But I see that as a form of motivation to make myself a better ninja knifer so that I can prove those people wrong. I intend to be the best knifer there is and there is nothing any of you folks can do to convince me otherwise. Thus my mind has already been made up. Screw SP gains, screw ISK rewards. I just want to shank some mercs. ===Update: 11 Oct 2012=== I finally got into the five-point skirmish map with the circular skyfire battery today (quite laggy though) and learned a few things here. 1. CRUs make great bait for hackers so that I can skewer them like roasted shrimp on a stick. The trick is finding a good spot to mask my profile. Crates are so useful for this. I used this trick and got four kills in the process. Three from while they were hacking and one from a direct confrontation because that dude turned around at the last moment (still won). Two of the other three kills were from the same guy because after I killed him and hid back into my hole a logi came in to revive him. I then stepped out and killed the same merc before the logi came back and killed me. 2. I have three fits at the ready: Ninja Knifer (two ready) 'Skinweave' Scout Uplink <---cheap and perfect for getting back into that one area I love to be in if I die. (one ready) Assault Starter Fit <---if I ever run out of fits or if the map I'm forced into doesn't suit my Ninja Knifer. (Infinite as it's a starter) One of you was wondering if the Hand-to-Hand skill book effects the Nova Knife. It doesn't. It's meant only for melee. Although it's nice to see that if I fit the Nova Knife and have it ready I can swing my fists instead of using the butt end of a rifle. Makes me feel like Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson. Other than that, the melee is also meant to compliment the knife (again, if you fail on the first strike). Oh, I almost forgot to mention this. I managed to train up to Weaponry level 3 so that I can use the enhanced sidearm damage mod. The knife is now sharper than before. Now if only CCP would just release those cloaking mods sooner. In regards to the drop uplink, don't be surprised if you see an uplink being placed waaaaaaay out in the distance in the mountains almost away from main combat area. That's just me hunting for snipers to sneak up on. Therefore those drop uplinks are meant more for me. Speaking of mountains, that reminds me that I have been learning to be a mountain goat when it comes to tall peaks and ridges. It gives me the advantage of quickly skimming downward at my target if I see them nearby. I did this a few times and it's great for a surprise knife attack while the ridges mask my profile. Finally I noticed that CCP has recently improved the SP/ISK gains. I'm still scraping by in terms of replenishing my fits, but it's better than seeing more red in the wallet than I would see in Enron's balance sheet.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.10 16:20:00 - [3] - Quote ===Updated 12 Oct 2012=== I like to thank Fireworlf Nolimit and his friend Starfighter for being worthy specimens of my proof of concept by allowing yourselves to be shanked on the back out in the mountains by me as I roam around the area like a mountain goat. If only I could see the look on your faces when you found yourselves dying to the same guy by nothing more than a butter knife. But I have to admit you did fight well in return, although to a bigger cost to you than me. Oh, this was that moment in which I experimented with the profile dampening modules I found in the market. Thanks to those who pointed me to them. They are such great help. EDIT: One thing I forgot to bring up is that since I am now getting proficient with the deadly accuracy and power of the nova knife, I can now focus on the speed of my dropsuit. So far I have been doing nothing but marathon runs with the stamina-recovery mods but they can only do so much. I'm gonna have to focus on pure speed mods like Catalyzers for two reasons: 1. More effective against snipers since they have to adjust their aim more often to compensate for the increased speed. 2. Excellent for running through RED LINE areas. Number two is especially important for me since I need to be running through the RED LINE often in order to get into otherwise impossible areas. Stamina recovery is not going to help if I can't get out of the RED LINE in time. I have used speed mods during the E3 build when I experimented with the sniper setup and thus I was able to run through the RED LINE effectively. I hope to apply this experience to my new Ninja Knifer setup. ===Updated 13 Oct 2012=== Morddeth Merces, I like to thank you for allowing yourself to be a worthy specimen as part of my proof of concept regarding ninja knifing. You allowed yourself to die to my blade three times in a row in one match while you were sniping in the same spot. I didn't even need the radar to find you. Your sniper rifle gave you away by its sound alone. Cheers. === Update 14 Oct 2012 === I noticed something peculiar about using the nova knife. After two occasions of killing snipers in the hills as you have seen in my diary, I was wondering if the knife is giving the snipers a false impression of being sniped since the knife has been beefed up to being a one-hit-kill weapon. If anyone here has been a victim of the knife, can you tell me how the hit indicator is appearing? Is it telling which way the hit is coming from or is it just one solid red circle? The next time you die, keep an eye on the kill feed as well as the hit indicator and let me know how it goes the next time you die to a nova knife. Thank you. Edit: I'm asking this because I notice my victims don't seem to change locations every time I kill them. I actually thought they justwanted to die, but I'm thinking that they don't realize that they are being shanked by someone hiding in the hills and are just coming back to the same spot to snipe. ===Update 16 Oct 2012=== In recent news, I have been wanting to join Seraphim Initiative for some time now ever since one of their members sent me a kind email that said "LEGEND". I figure it would be great to see how my ninja knifing skills would play out in a team effort. Of course, according to their rules I have to demonstrate my worthiness by joining them in a separate squad until I can be accepted. I'll join a squad with them tomorrow or the day after when my knife handling has already been honed in. Speaking of which... I am now trying an experimental "LITE" version of my main "NINJA KNIFER" fit using the 'Skinweave' scout dropsuit as follows: (S) 1x Nova Knife (M) 1x Enhanced Profile Dampener (L) 1x Enhanced Sprint Speed Mod (E) 1x Drop Uplink The 'Skinweave' drop suit which has been rewarded to most of us who have been around since the early parts of the beta helps eliminate the need for the typical militia drop suits which cost ISK to replace. They are also an excellent substitute to the AUR militia BPOs. Overall, the cost of replacing this setup is around 14,000-17,000 ISK compared to about close to 27,000 ISK for the Type I Scout setup I have at the moment. The Type I can sprint at least 9m/s (rounded to the nearest whole number) since it can carry 2x enhanced sprint speed mods while the 'skinweave' can only run at about 8m/s because it only has one low slot. Because of this experiment, I have been able to save a lot of ISK whenever I die and I can still be fast enough to up to the enemy from behind. Unfortunately for me the lower sprint speed limits how far deep I can go into the red zone. I was contemplating on using an LAV fitted only for pure speed to help me deeper into the red zone to get around the mountains in time, but that only draws attention as the LAV is not exactly stealthy in terms of profile. I might as well rig a neon sign on top of the my vehicle saying 'hey, I'm coming'. So the LAV is out of the question. Even if I did manage to sneak in with it, the enemy would be somewhat suspicious about an abandoned LAV in their area. Any right-minded merc would check the area the around them to see if anyone was hiding if they saw an abandoned vehicle far out in the mountains. I have also experimented some more in CQC inside structures. So far I have learned that the only way to stay alive involved the following: Keep running. Every second you stand still is every second you are giving someone time to shoot you because there will be enemy mercs everywhere like New York rats in the sewers. Hug the corners of structures but be mindful of them. The downside is that you will show up on the tacnet since you are closer to your enemies and thus more likely to be seen once you turn a corner. Which is why I advise you to check the corners before you turn them unless you have no choice but to rush in. If you hit-n-miss keep running.
Taladon Taigon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 13	Posted - 2012.10.10 16:29:00 - [4] - Quote You will get there. Eventually you will be a stealth-sneak.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.10 20:54:00 - [5] - Quote Taladon Taigon wrote: You will get there. Eventually you will be a stealth-sneak. Thank you for the motivation. I needed that. So far yesterday I remember doing cqc in biomass. On two occasions I ran into a merc in the one room with crates and stairs and managed to either stab or melee both of them. It was really heart pumping especially with the second merc who was a scout with a submachine gun. I was more amazed that he didn't melee back at me while he kept blinding shooting and missing me. I guess I made him panic. But then later I died when I ran around a corner where someone tossed a grenade. Communications is another map I can deal with.
Metaleroz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.10.10 21:52:00 - [6] - Quote Ninjas are cool. Who doesn-¦t like a good ninja movie? I know I do. Keep your chin up and your stance low.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.10.11 00:00:00 - [7] - Quote Cool, I respect your patience. Keep with it, supposedly it's been mentioned that there will be cloaking modules at some point in the future. With this, I would imagine your role will become a little easier. Although we'll have to wait and see how they're implemented.
l8erXD Bragian Order Amarr Empire 33	Posted - 2012.10.11 00:06:00 - [8] - Quote You'll get there. I never used a nova knife because im a trained melee attacker >.>
Rayan Storm ZionTCD Legacy Rising 358	Posted - 2012.10.11 00:52:00 - [9] - Quote Gotta admit, you have my respect. Keep going bro!
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.10.11 05:25:00 - [10] - Quote Forgive me if I missed it, I only skimmed your OP, but it seems you may have overlooked the Hand to Hand skill, which reportedly buffs melee damage.. not sure if this affects Nova Knife or not, but I think it definitely should. Glad to see someone's testing this, I hope it's a viable play style. Scout suits definitely need much better sneakiness and speed over Assault suits.

crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.10.11 08:20:00 - [11] - Quote nvm
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.11 19:00:00 - [12] - Quote Second post updated.
SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2012.10.11 19:30:00 - [13] - Quote have u got profile damening modules fit on ur suit ? they may help u hide even bettter
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.11 19:38:00 - [14] - Quote SGT Garrisson wrote: have u got profile damening modules fit on ur suit ? they may help u hide even bettter That's the thing, I can't find any on the market. The only ones I see so far are those for scanning down targets.
SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2012.10.11 19:50:00 - [15] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: SGT Garrisson wrote: have u got profile damening modules fit on ur suit ? they may help u hide even bettter That's the thing, I can't find any on the market. The only ones I see so far are those for scanning down targets. its called profile dampener it falls into the modules catagory on the market they use a low power slot
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.11 19:53:00 - [16] - Quote SGT Garrisson wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: SGT Garrisson wrote: have u got profile damening modules fit on ur suit ? they may help u hide even bettter That's the thing, I can't find any on the market. The only ones I see so far are those for scanning down targets. its called profile dampener it falls into the modules catagory on the market they use a low power slot I'll look into it when I get back home. Right now I'm about to head out to class. But thanks for letting me know.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 164	Posted - 2012.10.11 19:55:00 - [17] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: SGT Garrisson wrote: have u got profile damening modules fit on ur suit ? they may help u hide even bettter That's the thing, I can't find any on the market. The only ones I see so far are those for scanning down targets. Militia profile dampeners dude. BPC and BPO
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.11 19:58:00 - [18] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: SGT Garrisson wrote: have u got profile damening modules fit on ur suit ? they may help u hide even bettter That's the thing, I can't find any on the market. The only ones I see so far are those for scanning down targets. Militia profile dampeners dude. BPC and BPO Any of non-militia variants out yet?
Blunt Smkr Doomheim 62	Posted - 2012.10.11 20:34:00 - [19] - Quote +1 nice read n much respec for sticking with it. It just makes me want to try the nova knife again, i'll probably make another char next time i'm caped an attempt to make a straight ninja knifer should be fun
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.12 06:09:00 - [20] - Quote Post #3 updated.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.12 07:07:00 - [21] - Quote I can see it now the laments of lav gunners getting knifed to death.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.12 12:38:00 - [22] - Quote @Iron Wolf Funny you had to mention that... although only melee was involved. ;)
Manx Meow Kittycat Company 0	Posted - 2012.10.12 13:37:00 - [23] - Quote This is my new favorite post.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.13 23:30:00 - [24] - Quote Post #3 updated again. Funny stuff.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.14 13:31:00 - [25] - Quote An important question added in the third post. Please help.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.14 19:02:00 - [26] - Quote I guess nobody can confirm what I suspect? Either my nova knife is misleading snipers or the snipers I shanked are just that stupid.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.17 05:04:00 - [27] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=353548#post353548 Post updated. See bottom portion.
Miss Practice 30	Posted - 2012.10.17 05:22:00 - [28] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: SGT Garrisson wrote: have u got profile damening modules fit on ur suit ? they may help u hide even bettter That's the thing, I can't find any on the market. The only ones I see so far are those for scanning down targets. Militia profile dampeners dude. BPC and BPO Any of non-militia variants out yet? No, but the militia units go in low slot for some reason or another, so you can wear 2 dampners. something to toy with.
Nexus Dragoon 514 BetaMax. 78	Posted - 2012.10.17 05:43:00 - [29] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I guess nobody can confirm what I suspect? Either my nova knife is misleading snipers or the snipers I shanked are just that stupid. its a sidearm you will make more sp using it as one. and then you can use that sp to make it better. but if all you can do is use a nova knife then then you are limiting yourself.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.17 11:41:00 - [30] - Quote Nexus Dragoon 514 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I guess nobody can confirm what I suspect? Either my nova knife is misleading snipers or the snipers I shanked are just that stupid. its a sidearm you will make more sp using it as one. and then you can use that sp to make it better. but if all you can do is use a nova knife then then you are limiting yourself. First off, this side arm is my primary even if its fitted in the sidearm slot. I know I am limiting myself. That is what I said in my original posts. But I do not care, not in the slightest bit. I knew what I was getting myself into so. Also, the knife is already better to the point where I can one hit kill most assault mercs and therefore I'm good in that department. PS: your post didn't answer my question on whether or not my nova knife is misleading snipers.



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