DUST Search - [Feedback/Request] SMG Rebalance

sendeth wrote:

Jack McReady wrote:

Necrodermis wrote:

they already tried giving SMGs actual damage. problem is it made them way more effective than a AR.

you also have to think about it this way. you are shooting another armored person. the little power the SMG takes isn't going to do a whole lot.

how did it made smg better than AR? you are confusing some things, the problem back in the last builds was different, scout suits could easily close the range gap due to speed and hit detection issues and unload bullets into your head, this is not possible any more.

additionally back in the last builds you had to get quite alot of SP in SMGs to trump AR damage and SMGs were almost fine that way, they trumped AR close range (and not by a large margin, the damage was only slightly higher) but at mid to long range SMGs were useless due to accuracy and effective range. I remember the SMGs in the last builds very well, cause I used them alot as on some fits to save grid and cpu, you could not kill anyone outside 30 meters with it.

how far out do you want to kill someone? it's an smg. just like the shotgun, it is a matter of play style. you don't engage someone unless you can win. you make sure to be quick, close the gap and attack as hard as possible then gtfo long enough for shields and armor to go back up and strike again. if you want to take a shot at everything that moves, get an ar. smg's and shottys are for people that plan out their attacks or spend a lot of time at a full sprint. i agree that they range of the smg needs increased slightly, but it is mostly good as it is once you get some sp's dumped in. the only reason i say the range needs increased is because of the smg vs shotgun. when being attacked by a shotgun, you have a very narrow margin between so close you get blasted and too far to do any damage.


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Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2012.10.09 14:02:00 - [1] - Quote if we want to start about RL comparisons, then I dont agree that rifle should be better. SMG should trump AR at close range any time. I can give you some enlightenment from my RL experience I got from the austrian army. regular rounds from pistols/smgs are not that great at piercing body armor BUT modern small calibers that some of the latest smgs use have much more stopping power, they cut through body armor like it is made out of butter and have less recoil too. they put AR stopping power into shame, they only have lower effective range because the accuracy is not on par with AR due to shorter barrels. if anything then the AR is too accurate due to lack of recoil. the AR should be able to hit well when you take time to aim and place good shots but not be a full auto sniper. the SMG should have worse base accuracy but less recoil. the range of the SMG should be increased as well. e.g. 4,6x30 mm pierces body protection that is built by CRISAT standards even at a distance of 200m easily.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2012.10.10 08:55:00 - [2] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: they already tried giving SMGs actual damage. problem is it made them way more effective than a AR. you also have to think about it this way. you are shooting another armored person. the little power the SMG takes isn't going to do a whole lot. how did it made smg better than AR? you are confusing some things, the problem back in the last builds was different, scout suits could easily close the range gap due to speed and hit detection issues and unload bullets into your head, this is not possible any more. additionally back in the last builds you had to get quite alot of SP in SMGs to trump AR damage and SMGs were almost fine that way, they trumped AR close range (and not by a large margin, the damage was only slightly higher) but at mid to long range SMGs were useless due to accuracy and effective range. I remember the SMGs in the last builds very well, cause I used them alot as on some fits to save grid and cpu, you could not kill anyone outside 30 meters with it.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2012.10.10 17:14:00 - [3] - Quote sendeth wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Necrodermis wrote: they already tried giving SMGs actual damage. problem is it made them way more effective than a AR. you also have to think about it this way. you are shooting another armored person. the little power the SMG takes isn't going to do a whole lot. how did it made smg better than AR? you are confusing some things, the problem back in the last builds was different, scout suits could easily close the range gap due to speed and hit detection issues and unload bullets into your head, this is not possible any more. additionally back in the last builds you had to get quite alot of SP in SMGs to trump AR damage and SMGs were almost fine that way, they trumped AR close range (and not by a large margin, the damage was only slightly higher) but at mid to long range SMGs were useless due to accuracy and effective range. I remember the SMGs in the last builds very well, cause I used them alot as on some fits to save grid and cpu, you could not kill anyone outside 30 meters with it. how far out do you want to kill someone? it's an smg. just like the shotgun, it is a matter of play style. you don't engage someone unless you can win. you make sure to be quick, close the gap and attack as hard as possible then gtfo long enough for shields and armor to go back up and strike again. if you want to take a shot at everything that moves, get an ar. smg's and shottys are for people that plan out their attacks or spend a lot of time at a full sprint. i agree that they range of the smg needs increased slightly, but it is mostly good as it is once you get some sp's dumped in. the only reason i say the range needs increased is because of the smg vs shotgun. when being attacked by a shotgun, you have a very narrow margin between so close you get blasted and too far to do any damage. you dont get the point, the AR should be jack of all trades, not master of all ranges except shotgun range. AR should not trump SMGs in their favored range, never. not from balance point of view, nor from realism. AR had plenty of advantages over SMG, now SMG is inferior even at close range too. being a sidearm is not an argument, especially since one profession is obviously supposed to use it as main weapon.