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Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
119
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Posted - 2012.10.08 19:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
This message isn't really intended for the public to scrutinize and reply to; its intended audience is the development team. If you have feedback which is relevant to what I say here feel free to add in; however, please keep your points relevant and to wit.
Lack of Stability / Fear of System Damage
I can't count on both my hands the number of times that my PS3 hard-locked playing DUST. I'm certain that terminating power to the console is not a safe thing to do and that continued hard shutdowns can only harm my system in the long run. In addition, it's frustrating to say the least that I have to exit the game completely in the event of a soft-lock. It is my opinion that the first issues to be fixed in a beta are stability / crash issues and this has simply not happened.
Lack of Developer Feedback on Testing
When I started playing in the Beta I was assured by the press statements that the Beta would have high levels of developer interaction with the testers so that our opinions could directly influence the game. I have, to date, produced four high quality reports on features in the game I felt should be different and received ZERO feedback on them from ANY member of the development staff. You have failed to uphold your promise here.
It brings me joy to see the LAV up to date in Codex after my thorough report, but I think this has more to do with the large volume of data gathered in precursor with the free LAVs than it does with my report.
Lack of Differentiation
Yes, I'm playing in the EVE universe. Yes, the things I do are supposed to have lasting impact. No, they currently don't.
I understand that this beta is designed to test more of the combat aspects of DUST and less the planetary management side of things; but it just doesn't feel like the things I do in the game directly affect my character or the battlefield. I can't destroy static terrain, I can't alter the battlefield, I can't jam enemy radar, I can't lay traps for tanks... the list goes on and on.
Skill points may seem like the answer to the "MMOFPSRPG HOW" question, but I don't think it is the right way. How does shooting people with a sniper rifle further my proficiency in driving a LAV? The only way to earn SP in EVE is with TIME, which makes sense. Maybe COD's gun-level system might work better here where kills with a class of weapon get you experience in that class of weapon... you know, something more in-line with SWG's pre-combat fix experience system.
Lack of Diversity
At current I have two game-modes: Team Death Match and Capture Control. That's it. Just two. In any given game-mode one of two things will happen:
- A team will have a proficient vehicle pilot. Everyone will try and kill this person and die to the infantry who are shooting them.
- A large group of people will ignore the objective of the game. In TDM this means that they will play as lone-wolves and die to two or three man teams. In C&C this means that people will over commit to capturing a point over and over again instead of using flexible deployment.
All the guns in a class (ARs, SMGs, Shotguns) feel the same. I don't feel like any one gun functions different from its counterparts. Go shoot a M16 and then shoot an AK-47 or an AR15, you will feel the difference. Space pew-pew guns should be just as different, if not more-so, than normal earth dakka-dakka guns.
Lack of Consistency
Scouts have a low sig-radius but show up just as readily as a heavy suit. No incentive is offered to killing mobile deployment utilities (nanohives / drop uplinks) while incentive is offered for killing vehicle deployments (tanks / dropships / LAVs). Swarm Rockets function less like highly advanced rockets and more like supercharged suicide bullets with an explosion. Grenades explode and do splash damage to infantry but man-portable missiles do not. Flux grenades completely fry vehicle shields but don't disable turrets / movement. AV grenades seek tanks but AP grenades do not. Mass Drivers do not shoot grenades... why not?
This list of things doesn't seem exhaustive and that's because it isn't. These are the things that come OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. I'm sure if I dug deeper I could come up with many more.
Communications
Why can't we use the D-Pad: Left to bring up a quick communications panel with things like
- Need Fire Support
- Requesting Reinforcements
- Deploying Drop-Uplink
- Providing Assistance
- En Route
- Cover Me!
Also: communications that aren't voice have to be accessed via Select!? This is atrocious.
No Lasers... AKA Not the Future
This is the future. Where are my lasers? Where are my antiparticle cannons? Where are my micoscale nuclear devices? Where are my portable shield batteries? Where is my walking tank? Where is my bionic enhancement for non-armored infantry? Where are the elements of design / gameplay that suggest this is the distant future?
Under-utilization of Engineering and Electronics Skills
I feel like there should be some kind of... you know... engineering class or equipment which lets me build things. Maybe erecting bunkers or walls... automated turrets... radar stations... you know, stuff like that. Instead we get skills that do nothing but increase stats which are, at best, not used at all. Scan Radius? Why upgrade it when everyone shows up the same? This is a potential untapped goldmine and it's a shame to see it go to waste.
Summary and Conclusion
You can TL;DR this if you want. You can troll if you want. You can flame if you want... I really don't care. Remember, this post isn't aimed at you but at development. These are the reasons that I quit. I'm willing to bet that more than a few players have quit because of issues similar or derivatives. Good luck tuning your game. I will return later to see if anything's changed. -N |
Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 00:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Underlined text denotes responses
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:On scifi weapons: There are lasers, go in the market > weapons > laser rifles > buy / use / level up skills required > buy a damn laser rifle. The assault rifles and shotguns are plasma weapons (burning ionized gas, probably held together by magnetic fields), the sniper rifles are railguns. Go put on a heavy dropsuit, and try the Forge gun. More confirmed weapons are still to come. They go klack-klack-klack or ka-thang. Where's the pew pew or the recoil-less rifle? Maybe I'm nitpicking on audio effects, but none of these guns seem sci-fi to me. How about a gun that shoots lightning? Launched Napalm? Guided Missiles? Cluster Rockets? There's technology that we have TODAY which outpaces DUST. Maybe it's a visual / audio effects disconnect. The game doesn't feel like science fiction to meOn dev feedback: Check dev posts on the forums more, or go to the free IRC chat where they come fairly often. This thread is relevent to dev feedback. I have nothing for this.On stability: This build is far more stable than it was the previous builds, its not perfect, but it is vastly improving, so its kind of weird that you would pick now to mention how terrible it is. Even with the improvements I experience at least one hard crash per day. I experience at least 3 soft locks per hour. Maybe it's a bad installation, which only lends more credence to the "I will uninstall this and try again later" statement.On diversity: Its a beta, how often do you play a beta with all the modes that will be available at launch? There is a mode I think they referred to as conquest that will be played on an even bigger map (5 kilometers I think) that is coming, there will be a PVE mode where you fight rogue drones. Corp battles will be coming, so will factional warfare. When these things become available I will probably be back to test them. Right now the game doesn't have the tools to be diverse enough (on a macro scale) to hold my interest in a testing capacity (especially with my feedback seemingly getting 0 exposure or mention) Aside: I'm not naive enough to think that the devs have time to respond to or comment on every single feedback post; however, if something is really well formatted with practical experience then it at least deserves a "We've seen it and we're thinking about it."On consistency: More shields = bigger signature radius, plus there are modules that others use to increase their spotting capabilities. I agree infantry deployables should get you points. I have no problems with swrm launchers, if they are made too strong then it would present a balance issue. I'm pretty sure ass drivers fire grenades, last time I checked they were (definitiom of grenade is "A small bomb thrown by hand or launched mechanically"). The rest of your complaints seem trivial, or explained by balance. Sig radius is useful for nothing at current it doesn't affect your visibility or the damage you take. Modules which increase spot capability are useless because Chevrons linger too long and appear with little to no effort on spotting. Explosive Splash damage with Swarm Launchers isn't a problem if you make it practically impossible to shoot them at your feet and explode (see MFD or MAD in current missile technology). Mass Drivers do not shoot grenades. Most AP grenades kill you on contact. or within 2 meters; A MD will not. The point of this section was to point out some of the little things that just don't make any sense. Why does the technology exist to do X but not Y when Y is clearly just another implementation of X?On communication: Because those buttons are already in use. Get a mic. Forcing players to get a microphone for basic communications is absurd. I'll buy a microphone when I can hack enemy communications and feed them junk data.CCP advised against making lists of requests and feedback, I advise you split your ideas and feedback into different threads, or comment on threads that are already existing about your issues. The thread is the 1st stickied thread on th feedback page. Which didn't exist when I started testing this back in August.
As per your comment regarding "Why Uninstall when you can..." It has to do with being a stronger perceived statement. I also believe I might have had a bad installation because my reported crashes seem to happen with far greater consistency and volume than other players report.
"Sir Meode" wrote:would you like some cheese with that whine?? No, but I would like you to kindly use the door.
"Bosse Ansgar" wrote:Lol. "Pew-pew, dakka-dakka". I love it. Sorry, just had to say it. It's cool.
"Fivetimes Infinity" wrote:Scrambler pistols are actually lasers, too. And the assault rifles are actually plasma rifles. Sniper rifles are railguns. A lot of the other very sci-fi stuff (mechs, cloaking) are coming later on.
It certainly doesn't feel like it shooting them... except the Sniper Rifle... that feels like a railgun. Like I said above to KAGEHOSHI, maybe it's a visual/audio disconnect.[/quote]
It's also worth noting that no one has spoken out against this point: "Yes, I'm playing in the EVE universe. Yes, the things I do are supposed to have lasting impact. No, they currently don't." |
Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 14:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xiree wrote:Not to put ya in the hot seat, but `Why ya mad brah?
This is one of those questions where saying "I'm not mad," doesn't help my point so I figured I'd give an explanation instead.
I've been on the alpha and beta teams for a couple of games now. I Beta'd WoW, D&D Online, Planetside, SWG, RIFT, SC2, Diablo 3, and AION. These were all by invitation and not open status. You would probably think, "Oh, it's not hard to get into a beta pipeline, all you do is submit your information and get randomly selected." Maybe you're right, maybe not; the point here isn't that "OMG HE WAS IN SO MANY BETAZ," it's that "He keeps getting asked to test things, maybe he knows something... or provides good feedback."
When you play games for almost your entire life you learn a thing or two about good and bad development. You start to see patterns and elements in games and recognize when something will fail and why. I was consulted personally by the SWG development team prior to the combat re-vamp and straight up told them "This will kill your game." Unfortunately SOE decided that they knew better... they were wrong.
Maybe I've been spoiled in my beta experiences. Maybe I've been lucky to date. Maybe, just MAYBE, I've experienced a statistical anomaly when it comes to being involved in testing; however, that doesn't change the fact that according to my experience when in-depth testing happens and gets in-depth reports then a response follows. It can be as short as "We've reviewed this and are in the process of discussion," or as thorough as to say, "We need more detailed statistics about the widget doing this action."
This hasn't happened since Day 1 of testing. This is the only beta that I've bought into ever and it's because I both support CCP and love EVE. I appreciate what they're trying to do here and want the game to have a chrome-like polish when it's done... it's just frustrating to see basic design elements get thrown under the bus when they are what the players experience the most. I know it doesn't seem like it, but if you stop to think about it, you will understand.
How many of the hardcore FPS players can identify an oncoming enemy and his weapon based on the sound of the rapport from around a corner? Almost every single one of them. Why? Because the fire-sounds from each weapon are unique. If you played Quake a lot, how many people did you reflex-frag because you heard a door open? Little things are queues in a game and they build the world better than any story can (see: Bioshock).
It isn't so much that I'm "mad," as much as it is that I'm frustrated that a world I love isn't living up to what it's billed as. I was told that this will be "A futuristic sci-fi MMOFPS where everything you do has a lasting consequence." So far, Planetside 1&2 and Tribes (all), have done a much better job at depicting a Sci-fi FPS... As per the lasting consequence ticket: Ha. Just one guffaw is all I can muster. Nothing you do in DUST has lasting effects. Not. One. Single. Thing. At least not yet...
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I think you are using the WRONG RIFLE.
I know exactly what you're talking about so cool your fingers down before your keyboard catches fire. If you go and shoot any assault rifle it functionally sounds like a current assault rifle. It does not sound like the rifle is shooting superheated plasma, it sounds like it's shooting bullets. It's a cosmetic problem and not a representation issue. These are the "ka-thak-a-thak" guns I'm talking about. Heated plasma would (and should) make a sound similar to a hiss when fired because of the air displacement through the exhaust ports.
The issue I have is that the "futuristic sci-fi weapons" that we have right now don't really feel "sci-fi." The Forge-gun, Laser Rifle and Sniper Rifle (it is a railgun) are the only weapons that really feel like they belong in a science fiction environment. It's not because they're described as being sci-fi, it's because they feel sci-fi. |
Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 20:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:The weapons generally really don't sound and feel scifi except for a few. It use to bother me a lot; its kind of a minor issue, but it would improve the feel of the game if they did sound more scifi.
This is a perfect example of what I'm trying to get across: "One man's pebble is another man's boulder."
What to you is a minor thing is -to me- a very large problem because I'm viewing things from a conceptual point of view. When you're looking at the overall experience you can't just zero in on gameplay mechanics. Sure, the game may play smoothly, but after a while you start to feel like the choices you make don't really amount to anything. When this happens you've erred fundamentally in your design.
Games are all about choice. This is the underlying principle of Game Theory: The Optimization of Choice. In order for players to feel like they've made the proper choice there needs to be multiple instances of feedback from the game to the player. This can come in the form of a slightly improved ratio, more sensitive controls, better performance of module X... but these things aren't immediately tangible. Visual and Audio effects (being sensory in nature) get picked up faster than any other element of gameplay. They are your lifeblood in an FPS and as a result you unconsciously put higher priority on the information you see and hear.
You can call it nitpicking and I will respond with, "Well, it's a very large nit."
Going a little bit deeper: there needs to be fundamental logic in the evolution of choice. Let's say that you have a LogiBro. What decisions immediately effect this character?
- "What utility roles are most valuable to my team?"
- "What will prevent me from dying so that I can extend my use?"
- "How will I contribute offensively to the team / How will I defend myself?"
The logistics character will usually slot Equipment first followed by weapons and grenades because of the decision hierarchy that's posed to them. Now let's look into that third choice "Offensive Capability." Obviously grenades are a good decision as Nanohives can replenish them (slowly) as can supply depots. This could make the Logistics suit a semi support-grenadier. Now let's say that the LogiBro fits an "ass driver" into his weapon slot...
If AP grenades are effective and kill infantry really well, why wouldn't the mass driver just function as a projector for these devices? There's no logical reason to shoot anything other than effective grenades or airbursting fragmentation cartridges if the Mass Driver is intended to be an area denial weapon. Going slightly further, if an explosive doesn't come within detonation range of an enemy unit it should sit there on the ground like a mine for 5-8 seconds before exploding or going intert. Why? Simply put: this makes the most logical sense to deny an area.
Say a Mass Driver user wanted to take out a vehicle... use a different ammunition. This could be implemented as a different gun, a reload choice (hold square, select ammo), or a module for variable functionality. Thus we open up more choices and give more relevance to the third option.
Unfortunately, without weapons being diverse enough in function this becomes impossible.
This extrapolates into Sniper Rifles (Charge v. Tactical), Assault Rifles (Fire Rates v. Accuracy at Range), SMGs (Recoil v RPM), etc. There simply isn't enough diversity in the weapons themselves to be functionally chosen from given player feedback. Why can't you have a module for variable zoom? Why isn't it a default feature? Don't you think that logically, thousands of years in the future, someone would have realized that being able to see at different distances is beneficial?
Thinking similar to this is why we currently live in a homogeneous world instead of a heterogeneous one. Every game you play, every match you fight, every soldier you kill, should feel functionally unique from the last ocurance to hold interest over a massive volume of time and the game, presently, does not have this.
Quote:I understand where you're coming from, but if you haven't noticed, there's a lot of people with headsets. Communication is important, and from efficient standpoints, audio is the fastest method as opposed to using a keyboard. I hate to tell you this, but you are left in the dust (no pun intended) of most players there. This isn't a PC shooter, either. It's a PS3 shooter that just so happens to support KB+M and text chat. You'll need to get used to this if you've not already.
Forcing players to purchase a headset to effectively communicate is not a good move. The argument that "we're in a new era" doesn't apply. I don't want to purchase a god-awful headset and I don't want to buy a Turtle Beach headset either. There isn't a really good mid-range option. At the same time, your argument doesn't address the lack of visual communication between squads, individuals, or entire teams. What if you're deaf?
Yeah. Bet you didn't think about that did you? |
Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 01:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
TheUltima Xtreme wrote:Um, because there aren't a lot of deaf gamers out there. Sure, colorblind players, alright, but what you're pulling isn't a very effective argument unless a large population of players happen to be deaf and playing a game with this level of team-orientated gameplay. Besides, if that is the case, most people are probably only playing on PC anyway, since games on PC were built from the heart with that sort of thing in mind.
Honestly, any headset is better than no headset. You don't even need a Turtle Beach. I'm fairly certain there are $30 converters that will let you BT with your PS3 and use a standard PC headset if you so desire.
True, deaf gamers don't make up a large segment of the game market; however they are out there. To use "no support for the deaf" as the sole argument would be foolish... so let's use something more likely: language barriers. I know that most squads or corps will be uni-lingual; however, there will come a time when you will need to work with someone who does not speak your language.
Having some kind of game-contextual communication would give you tools to cross the language barrier for at least basic principles. "Defend Here," "Assault this Position," and "Capture this" are already in the game... but what about "I need ammo," "Enemies assaulting this position," "Need Air/Ground support," "Requesting Pick-Up / Drop off", "Flank from here," or very advanced concepts: "Build X here," "Wait here to Ambush," "Watch X Direction", "Enemies Here," "Covering Fire from here."
There's too many good reasons to have a feature like this to dismiss it with the comment, "Buy a headset." |
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