NO!
I shall spend seven years on this game, become the most powerful sentient being in the world,
AND YOU SHALL BOW DOWN TO ME!

I honestly thought that's how it would be. It's the only good thing about EVE that I wouldn't mind seeing in Dust514. If they did this it would be good move for game balance altogether. Right now with the SP limit it makes boosters useless good post.

You want a serious response?
EvE is, correct me if I'm wrong, NOT a first person shooter.
Dust 514, once again correct me if I'm wrong IS a first person shooter.
Despite being made by the same developer, they are completely different genres and should be structured as so, my point being no copy and paste.

And that's the problem with games now a days a need to feel accomplished through gameplay. Is winning not enough anymore?

This has everything to do with whether or not they are the same game. You obviously didn't read MY post, and you are doing a horrible job of trolling people that are against whatever you say.
How many people do you think want some crazy complex skilling system in their FPS? No matter how much you EvE players hate the CoD and BF3 immigrants, they have made and will make up the majority of this game's audience, EvE players will be a minority. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current skill system.
Just because you EvE players want everything to be complex and immersive like your skill system, that doesn't mean the CoD and BF3 immigrants will want it, or even be able to understand it.

@ Regis Mark- The skill cap has done a pretty good job so far.

The fact of the matter is progression is addicting. So there needs to be progression to hook people into playing long and often. Unfortunately they broke that a bit. They need to go to a true rested SP so the person playing continuously gets a steady stream of SP while the majority get large chunks in a decent play-session every few days. I think they should shoot for 80% the progression in 5-10% of the time of someone playing 23/7. Rested SP with a payout curve inverse to banked SP would accomplish this nicely.

Alright, let me give you this
What I think the average Joe thinks of EvE
Let me tell you, I don't care what you played over the years, you could have been playing blow it out your ass your entire life and it wouldn't change my perspective, our skilling system is perfectly fine how it is.

Bottom Line: I don't want a skill system that is based on time. I want one that is based on my actions and how I perform ingame.

I want to EARN my skillpoints. the EVE system does not allow that. It is just waiting for your skills to train because they take X amount of real time to train.

What the kitten. Games are for enjoyment and feeling accomplished is something that people enjoy. You don't make sense.


---


I don't agree with the cap we have nor do I agree with the overtime EVE system being implemented for Dust. Dust is a FPS. FPS is a fast paced, usually competitive, game genre. FPS players are the type who prefer to put in effort and expect rewards and if not they just hope for a enjoyable experience but with Dust being an MMO where effort and skill is SUPPOSED to take you to the top, everyone expects this.

Are you referring to the time based Que system? because if so i would agree totally.

oh right. forgot about that.

either way, I don't agree with the EVE "wait a month to train a single skill" system for this game.

when I want/need SP, I'll play non-Corp battles.

I know how the EVE system works. and it won't work here. well it may work, but it will suck horribly.

hours, months, what difference does it make.

you start training the skill and you can't use it until X amount of time has passed. eventually it'll get to the point where, just like in EVE, people only log in to switch a skill, and then log off to go to other things for the 2 hours, 4 hours, 8 hours that it takes to train that skill. in EVE that works. in Dust, it won't, due to the nature of the type of game it is.

EDIT: Holy hell. In the time i opened this thread with a dozen others or so and made my way to commenting on this one there's been 2 entire pages of posts already. Unfortunately i'm too lazy to read through it all to see if this has been covered, so i'll just leave it here anyway. Carry on.


Wouldn't it just lead to ISK grind though? If everyone were even on SP the grinders would just grind whatever = power. Which would be ISK. Which as i understand is how EvE works. In the case of Dust, we'd just end up with every battle dominated by whoever could spam the most tanks, aircraft and installations. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that if that's the direction the game was intended to take but i think CCP has different plans for Dust. I agree the SP system still needs work, but i understand what they are trying to do. Finding the right balance of OP/UP players and trying to make the game accessible to both is a daunting task. If SP were even across all players, ISK would be the new SP and they would still try and implement ways of creating a level playing field since that is seemingly they're ultimate focus. It's fair to say the system in EvE will never be employed in Dust. It's a different animal and needs a different system, albeit a better one than is currently employed.

Dust is a radically different game from eve.

They would never toss the skill based skilling system they currently have.

Nor should they. You want to loose the shooter crowd? Dont award them for being good FPS players.

Eve skill system doesn't work in dust.

The end.

Most First Person Shooters Multiplayer element nowadays allow you to grind Experience Points to simply unlock Weaponry that is instantly usable without Skill Progression.

Still look at it like this, with your own logic techncially why doesn't the game simply remove Skills altogether for simple unlocking?
In any case... I would say the current implimentation in-place doesn't really cater itself well to either Casual or Hardcore players, as both realistically get the short end of the stick.

Skillpoints frankly shouldn't be seen in the same way as traditional FPS Experience Points.
We've already been down this path with EVE Online, this is why we have a purely passive system today that no longer even includes bonus' for new players.

CCP have tried many times to "improve" the situation of new vs old players, with each time causing issues. Yes this initially even meant there was an "Active Skillpoint" system, where honestly most players actually exploited to an absolutely horrible extent that frankly gave us a truely devastating advantage over average players.

I see this again within DUST 514, sure there is a limitation placed to prevent it getting ridiculous; but the fact really remains that honestly ... Active Skillpoint Aquisition frankly is a lost cause. I said it in another post, but I will echo it here.

I'm not against players who put more time in to the game getting a bonus of sorts; in a similar mannor that implants within EVE work. Given you die in DUST so often that realistically Implants would be a lost cause without them being incredibly cheap or unrealistically pluggin in constantly ... well instead it would make sense if this "boosting potencial" was handed over to active gameplay.

If you look at it like this, you should be allowed via AUR to purchase Skill Boosters; that provide similar enhancements as +1, +2 and +3 Implant Sets to gaining Passive Skillpoints. (The current Active Booster would be like a +3)

Though playing though you could enhance this boost amount up to the similar improvement you see with +5 Implants, however this bonus gradually degrades over time. (obviously not being able to go lower than whatever Active Booster you currently have implanted)

You could get 2 Social Skillbooks that could increase the amount of boost provided per game and reduce the degradation; that would be useful for players who perhaps might not be able to have as much time to play as Hardcore players.

If the amount added to the Active Boost decreased (diminishing return) based on how close they were to +5, then this mean that they would end up grinding more while still seeing a benefit albeit small to their SP gains... thus they would never feel like buying Active Boosters is a waste, nor would they feel like the games they play are also a waste of time for their Skillpoints.

Although personally I would suggest those who hit limitations probably need to actually turn off their consoles once in a while and go outside, point here is that this system would provide an "Edge" rather than a "Overwheling Advantage" that needs strict capping to prevent system exploitation.

Mind I also believe that DUST is (or was I guess given how close to launch it is) a good oppurtunity to fix some of the issues with the Skill System that EVE now has due to how the game has been expanded. They are currently retroactively fixing EVE right now, I don't think DUST should've fallen in to the same pitfalls.

Still I will leave that to another post.

And NO to you also. I like being rewarded for playing. I think you just don't care if someone disagrees, you WANT WHAT YOU WANT AND WANT IT NOW.

I will give OP +1 because i do sort of agree with him

A passive SP system will mean ppl are more overall balanced, its why they have the skill cap now so that no lifes do not get ahead with millions of SP compared to guy who works has a family and maybe only gets 4hrs each night to shoot something with friends

This passive 'EVE' style system would really balance it out but how would FPS players like to wait maybe a good month to get HAV lvl5, or 5days to train upto Weapons lvl5 when they can get ther in a few games, the answer is they wouldnt

They dont have the patience, not when todays FPS games are levels and are easy to reach, MAG lvl system 2 days, BF3 done in a week, KZ3 unlock what you want but the XP needed just draws it out more but if you no life it you will get ther

They say but i want to work and play to unlock stuff but what happens in the above games when you have unlocked what you needed? you stick around for gameplay and friends but you wont unlock much else until DLC is dropped which is quickly done also

DUST would mean that you play for isk instead of lvls and new toys until your skills allowed to use said toys and friends but also with the promise of power, helping to take away sov and planets away from other ppl not just a ****** map but a whole planet/system from real ppl in another game

I wouldnt mind if skilling went the EVE way

alternative you can spend passive skill points free without a skill queue.
and no active skill points, only ISK.

Hi there, not a forum warrior myself but I've read some nice points in this topic so far.
Some I agree to others I feel aren't my point of view.

I feel that the cap is okay, just a bit soon, I would be happier if it was reset daily and just lowered the sp you got after time played.
basicly so you dont log in after a dt to see that you're still not getting sp.
Maybe we're forgetting that when the **** is live we'll have corp battles aswell wich will probably take up the most amount of time.
My concern would be that we're all getting filthy rich and farming casual players for sp instant battles..
or am I seeing this wrong?

My answer would also be NO.... I've been playing EVE online for 7 years and 17 days and if there is one thing i find annoying its the skill system. When i started playing i was lured in by the prospect of flying mighty Battleships, Carriers and the main price the Titan. Ok i understood, that it would take some time and effort to get that far. And yes one could just focus on surtain area's, but if you want to make isk, you're going to have to expand in different area's. (not to mention everything above battleship can only be flown in nul sec) Before you know it, 7 years later, 53014309 skillpoints later and i'm still not there. If i need to level up a skill now, i have to wait nearly a month, just to be able to do this or that, etc. Hell half the time i just click the next skill and don't botter coming back a few weeks later. now where is the fun in that.

Atleast with Dust 514, which is what atracts me, is that how far i get with my skills is all dependant on me. I could make it last 3 years or a life time, but the more i play the faster i will go. Not to mention, yes ok in the Beta, there are not alott of skills yet, and everything else is still what limited, but i know CCP, I know how awesome yet Complex there game could be and i know that every year they will be increasing the items, vehicles and skills that are available. What you see now is just the beginning and it will only grow. So No i would not like to see a skill system like EVE online, if i wanted that i would play EVE Online. Actually i think EVE online should have a good look at Dust 514 and take over there skill system.

''So No i would not like to see a skill system like EVE online, if i wanted that i would play EVE Online. Actually i think EVE online should have a good look at Dust 514 and take over there skill system.''

Just casting my vote. Dev's please do NOT listen to this sp system idea. The wait based character progression in Eve is the only thing about it I really dislike! The only point you can really make for it is that non active players can keep their characters up with the active ones, so people who play the market or participate in roles that do not require daily activity don't fall behind. I don't see how this could help players in dust though. If you are not active in combat, you should fall behind.

Too much butthurt in this thread for me to read all the posts. So, if the following point has been discussed, too bad. If it hasn't, then feel free to tell me how right I am.

Who friggin' cares if Johnny No-Life has more SP than you? Remove skill caps, and here is why:

The most important mechanic the DUST SP system shares with EVE is that skills are capped at level 5. So, like in EVE, if you go up against someone with 130 million SP or 10 million, if you're specialized the two of you will be equal in the same gear except for raw skill and tactics.



Again, this matters why? If someone is doing that, they will be broke very, very soon. If you kill someone in his proto assault kit and he comes back with a proto sniper setup and kills you, laugh at the fact that he's paying all that cash for revenge.

If this person is not going broke doing so, odds are they are in a corporation and playing as a member of a team, in which case they will usually be playing a specialized role and will not be jumping in and out of ten different dropsuit fits.



I don't have a corp in DUST, and because I deploy to Afghanistan on a very frequent basis, I probably won't. So, if the only gains I'm gonna see from actively playing DUST are ISK and the occasional e-peen inflation from fragging someone, then the game is going to get very old, very fast. If I can't bust my ass to get some extra SP from a good match, then there is no point.



Just shut up already.



tl;dr: Skill progression should be uncapped, the above explains how you are an idiot if you think it will kill casuals.

No, it started as a thread about changing the SP system to EVE's completely passive system. I illustrate that not only is that a stupid idea, but it should in fact go the other direction and be uncapped.

So you want to build a whole new genre into the universe, have it populated but not cater to the crowd who will make it vibrant??? I am sure many FPS fans dont care many of those things you listed and then calling them ignorant kind of defeats the purpose of what CCP is trying to do.

Just see that a compromise has to be made to grow this aspect and what the company is trying to do is a good thing for the players that only want to be involved on this level.

Hope I am not way off but that is how I read your post and demeaning the other side doesnt help the process at all.

On topic - I like the combination, I think like others you shouldnt have to pay for boosters, if you want a boost you should have to use that skill (and in combat not the safe zone) to speed up progression in that skill. I also dont have a problem with a weekly cap. It is a compromise to tie the game back to EVE and should be see as such.

Kind of new to this MMO stuff but the project is very exciting and I like what I've see so far.

*Sigh* you guys have bickered so long that when I quote the important parts I'm down to only 2700 characters to do my own griping.

Ok, first off, this is not a new universe, this is an expansion of an existing one. Second, since this is not an FPS it should not reward like an FPS, and the same goes for it's MMO aspect. The whole game is a hybrid genre, which means that the proper balance needs to be in place for it to work. Since you are basically combining MMORPG and FPS and expecting it to work, the leveling needs to be steered towards the middle of the whole thing and not just towards the FPS crowd. Yes, FPS players will be about 60-65% of the target audience, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't compromise it's system to accommodate the rest of it's audience. The FPS players need to stop feeling so snobby and entitled about being the target audience and give a little for the rest of the crowd. I'll say it again; passive SP, small SP boosts at the end of battle based on your performance, no SP cap.

wrong
with the lower skills passive SP means alot now
its the perfect middle ground already. u play u get rewarded u hit ur cap and u gain passive SP that is enough to get some skills up as well for those who cant play as much

how is it a pain to reach the sp cap?
u can reach that in 3-4 days of playin casually (i consider the cap when u start gettin ridiculously low SPs)
either way this is a F2P game and u have to keep a playerbase hooked

EVEs time based system will not do that , it will not give ppl a reason to login in and play
ISK isnt a big enough reason for the masses aka casuals to login and play if they cant spend it on anything new and shiny.

and having small SP boosts wont help either because it will feel like a painfully slow grind for ppl

this thread makes me chuckle

wasnt there suppose dto be some sort of horde mode for stat whoring?

and booster-ing i assume is refering to exploits and points farming right? not just the 50% boosters bought off market right? but thinking of the boosters off market, why the hell should an individual buy them if you only take half the time to reach skill cap without it? its like buying something that you only get to use half of the time. and the SP cap doesnt really stop boosters, it just reduces how long they have to actually try playing the game, can hit the skill cap in about 2-3 hours in one night booster-ing, at which point people say fuckit ill log in next week. not ot mention it is he who gets the proto rifle first has the greatest advantage, grind out for the 3-4 days that the booster already has theirs

theres no way of preventing boosting, its going to happen as long as skill points are awarded for actions taken. i expect once things go live that boosting will happen, especially in nullsec, where entire corporations will be working together in premade matches against eachother farming kills and points like its the cool thing to do. kills/nanites, recaping objectives direclty next to the enemy who just took it for you to recap, vehicular repairs anywhere. the fact that i can think of this many just off the top of my head, i see many opportunities and i knwo someone somewhere will have thought of more than i do.

and for those nay-sayers, i expect the major powerblocs in nullsec to post up private or super poor paying contracts(to prevent serious players from jumping in) for their own dust mercs to farm up in militia gear against eachother. you cant honestly expect fair play out of any of them after all the rage about blobs being lame when -a- drops 200 man tengu fleets. and you cant honestly expect them to leave the sp progression of their mercs to pubbie matches

Admittedly, I've skipped from page to page in this thread, but I think I've read the constructive posts anyway.

My vote would be with the OP on having a time / passive based SP system.
However, there is a point about having an incentive to keep people playing/active in the game.
So how about having the suggested time based passive system, but also when you are actually playing a game you earn SP at a slightly increased rate. For example, when playing you earn at a rate of 1.25x the passive rate, so if you play for 20minutes you actually earn 25 minutes of SP.
And if you want to spend your hard earned AUR on a booster, then you would still earn at a rate of 1.5 x passive rate I.e. 20mins now becomes 30 mins.

All the rewards for kills, hacks, revives etc should be ISK based though. So effectively, you get paid for performance. Get your basic wage / contract plus the bonus for actually how much work you actually did!!!

We're mercenaries it's the cash what matters!

1x level skills should all be acquired passively.

pure passive learning is the only way to prevent booster-ing illegitimately, and even then theyd still booster for iskies under the previously mentioned comments, but thats life untill they allow direct isk transfers from EVE players to their sponsored DUST Mercs.