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Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2012.10.06 23:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mira Adari wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:I just have a question to add to the thread.
What can scouts do that assault suits can't to the same or near same effectiveness? Yes, this is what people are missing. The scouts are now just slightly crappier versions of their equivalent assault suits. They are ever so slightly faster and get some tiny buffs to signature radius and pointless stuff life reload and draw speed, but have substantially less HP, CPU, and PG and also have less fitting slots. I'm not convinced that there is any situation in which a scout suit would be superior to an assault suit. The tradeoffs just don't add up. It doesn't matter if you're slightly faster if you die considerably sooner... that speed bonus doesn't make up for the drawbacks in a firefight. In any instance you can come up with, you're better off in the equivalent assault suit. Scout suit is a pointless piece of gear now. Not true. I have a Scout with a Shotgun and an Assault with a Shotgun...the Scout is magnitudes more efficient...the Assault is just too slow to close in. If you want to kill an AR with a Shotgun, you HAVE to flank. Run around some cover to get them from behind or the side, while they are distracted. You can't really do this with an Assault. And if the AR sees you while you're still not close, you're dead, regardless of what suit you wear.
How about some numbers. Assault suit sprint is 7m/s. Scout suit sprint? 7.8m/s. So, the assault suit has 90% of the speed that scout suits have. And then you look at CPU/PG and hit points. I guess it would be fair for the scout suits to have 90% of what the assaults do, right? Wrong. They have roughly 2/3 of PG/CPU and hit points.
I don't care about strafing. But the scout should be able to outrun an assault by more than 10%. Especially if scouts only have 2/3 of capacity and hit points.
Everyone said scouts were OP before, but a lot of us knew it was bad hit detection. Hit detection is fixed, and the real scout suit is revealed. It's paper thin and not that fast.
Don't mind that they're paper thin, but give them something to compensate. More CPU/PG, or much much faster sprinting speed. Assaults should only be able to sprint 60% or 70% of what the scouts can if we're going by the CPU/PG and hit points comparison.
As is, scouts = worthless. |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.06 23:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Vincam Velmoriar wrote:Mira Adari wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:I just have a question to add to the thread.
What can scouts do that assault suits can't to the same or near same effectiveness? Yes, this is what people are missing. The scouts are now just slightly crappier versions of their equivalent assault suits. They are ever so slightly faster and get some tiny buffs to signature radius and pointless stuff life reload and draw speed, but have substantially less HP, CPU, and PG and also have less fitting slots. I'm not convinced that there is any situation in which a scout suit would be superior to an assault suit. The tradeoffs just don't add up. It doesn't matter if you're slightly faster if you die considerably sooner... that speed bonus doesn't make up for the drawbacks in a firefight. In any instance you can come up with, you're better off in the equivalent assault suit. Scout suit is a pointless piece of gear now. Not true. I have a Scout with a Shotgun and an Assault with a Shotgun...the Scout is magnitudes more efficient...the Assault is just too slow to close in. If you want to kill an AR with a Shotgun, you HAVE to flank. Run around some cover to get them from behind or the side, while they are distracted. You can't really do this with an Assault. And if the AR sees you while you're still not close, you're dead, regardless of what suit you wear. How about some numbers. Assault suit sprint is 7m/s. Scout suit sprint? 7.8m/s. So, the assault suit has 90% of the speed that scout suits have. And then you look at CPU/PG and hit points. I guess it would be fair for the scout suits to have 90% of what the assaults do, right? Wrong. They have roughly 2/3 of PG/CPU and hit points. I don't care about strafing. But the scout should be able to outrun an assault by more than 10%. Especially if scouts only have 2/3 of capacity and hit points. Everyone said scouts were OP before, but a lot of us knew it was bad hit detection. Hit detection is fixed, and the real scout suit is revealed. It's paper thin and not that fast. Don't mind that they're paper thin, but give them something to compensate. More CPU/PG, or much much faster sprinting speed. Assaults should only be able to sprint 60% or 70% of what the scouts can if we're going by the CPU/PG and hit points comparison. As is, scouts = worthless. Exactly. The really funny thing is, the assault suit has enough extra CPU/PG (as well as extra fitting spots) to actually make up for AND EVEN SURPASS the scout suit in sprint speed and STILL have more CPU/PG and higher HP.
Which is why I ditched the scout suit for an assault suit, and it has made this game so much more fun to play. I don't die now when a strong gust of wind hits me, and yet I run at the same speed. |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 03:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Doc Quimm wrote:Scouts = Stealth...
They were nerfed because of the proliferation of hit detection abusers in the last build, rightly so.
They are now the invisible warriors they were always supposed to be, off the radar, deadly sabatours.
Beware.. players will soon get to grips with these demons...
Auto detonate RE's on roads, fast hack, profile dampners, sensor enhancments and what's that... oh! It's a Nova Knife sticking through your chest....
Sneaky stealthy buggers... mark my words, mark my .... ugh... what's that.....?
Uhh... what? Hit detection abusers were abusing hit detection. When that was fixed, had the scout been left alone, they wouldn't have been able to abuse it any more. Instead, CCP nerfed the scout suit and fixed hit detection (which is good, btw, I'm glad they did), which ended up making the scout pointless.
Not to mention they have yet to give the scout the tools the suit needs to actually fill, what I think, is the actual role of the scout: stealth and recon. Lower sig profile is nice (and hard to quantify, because I haven't noticed a difference with my assault suit), but it's not exactly recon or sabotage friendly.
I don't care about strafing. But the people on here talking about how the scout suit is faster- it's less than 10% faster than the assault. And yet it has 2/3 of the CPU, PG, and hit points. That's math, people.
And the other "bonuses" of a scout suit have been nerfed, as another poster pointed out (copied and modified):
The Scout use to start recharging shield quickly, then they lost that. The Scouts use to be able to sprint much faster than all other suits, and they lost that (see 10% above) The Scout is supposed to be harder to detect, and it isn't. The Scout is supposed to be able to detect people better, it isn't.
I have yet to see a reasonable and convincing argument as to how the scout suit, as currently constructed, is not worthless.
If they add cloaking, then the suit might be valuable. Until then, it's a waste of money. |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 04:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:I ran with both a scout and an assault suit today, giving each one 50 suits til I dropped to zero. What I found is that the scout suits speed bonus over the assault can be completely disregarded, I raced a buddy of mine today. I was in scout, he was in assault and both of us were carrying assault rifles. By the time a ran out of stamina I was only a few meters ahead of him.
The only real advantages I found in the scout were I higher jump and slightly better turning speed( which does make a difference when it comes to sniping or using the shotgun in close quarters imo). Unfortunately I can't test the effectiveness of the dropsuit signature between the scout and the assault, but I assume it does make a difference when going around corners or being seen from a distance.
Overall in my opinion the scout suit doesn't have enough of an advantage over the assaults hp until we get more stealth mods in. I can preform all the scouts tasks when it comes to flanking, sniping, and cqc with the shotgun while I'm in an assault to the same effectiveness, and I even have a higher chance of survival when I'm detected.
Again though there is still more to come and we will have to see if the scouts match the other suits when cloaking comes out. I recommend other people to run an assault and treat it as a scout suit to see what there opinion on it is, maybe you will come up with something different than me. At has been stated by ccp that the scout will balance itself out with more maneuverability than other suits, but sadly I do not see it.
This is what I've been saying. I've been in an assault suit, and it's worked much better than the scout for whatever role I enjoy performing. Sniping? Assault is better. Sneaking up to an objective? Assault is better (if I'm spotted I have a much higher chance of survival instead of dying before I can turn around).
I've also been mentioning the speed on the other threads. I've run to objectives next to assault guys, and I barely win. They're with me almost step for step. It's silly.
That being said, your points about cloaking and things to come (hopefully) are right. But in terms of speed, the scout's "advantage" is so miniscule it's barely noticeable. |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 04:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Madison Four wrote:Playing with am Amarr Scout now.
I am seeing that I have enough speed to disengage a firefight. but not enough speed to stay in one. that of course, would be the Strafing speed nerf.
so if I go head up with someone, it is mostly flee or die, or at least flee to a better position to get the jump on him.
I've escaped near-certain death several times on this map by sprinting and knowing the terrain.
I feel dirty using the AR in my scout suit, but it's the far and away best weapon in the game at this point.
haven't had a good chance to try out the Nova Knives, haven't yet gotten close enough to someone.
Yup. And you can do all of that just as easily with an assault suit. |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 19:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:D3LTA L3AD3R wrote:they are completely useless. CCP is nerfing anything in this game that gives FPS gamers an advantage, because their precious EVE players cant hang with us. what game on earth would nerf strafe speed and make it different than forward/backward movement? they are making it easier to kill, just like with the aim assist. I ran a scout suit for 3 builds, and did keep a low profile and use it the way it was intended. It's worthless in this build. since they added all the modules and skills to help make yourself more invisible, you can run assault and get the same effect, and be able to take more than 3 shots and live. Ya they are. I am hoping for some improvement with any bonuses they will have to stealth mods an electronic warfare, but not to good of an improvement, always want to avoid the gaze of the nerf hammer overlord.
True. The thing is, the scout has so little CPU/'PG, I don't think it'll be too good. |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 20:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Ten-Sidhe wrote:
The scout is sold as a cqc spec. with smg and shotgun in merc pack advertisement.
And the heavy had a swarm launcher... People still realized it was stupid to play that way. I have been rocking a heavy suit and I can still strafe effectively against people who can't aim, so to me it just sounds like a broken game mechanic was just fixed and the scout suit wearers are up in arms like some of the tank drivers.
I don't care about cqc, personally. I just don't understand how a scout who is supposed to be fast and agile can barely outrun an assault at 100m. |
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