DUST Search - [Discussion] Bringing drones to Dust (outside PVE)

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

EVE Online has drones, Dust will be getting drone enemies for PVE. However like EVE, drones can have useful applications for players.The purpose of this thread is to discuss ideas regarding what the role of drones should be in Dust. (I got the idea for this thread from Vermaak Doe)

One great application for drones would be as logistics helpers. For example:

Medic drone: Flies around, and revives people near the owner. Should require level 5 nanite inhector skills, drone command skills, and a specific medical drone skill.

Repair drone: Flies around, and repairs the armor of people near the owner. Should require level 5 repair tool skills, drone command skills, and a specific repair drone skill.

Combat drones would also be a possible application. Example:

Flying gunner drones that patrol a specific location where they are deployed. They should be fairly weak, and not that much of a threat (until they are at much higher tiers at least). They should be one for each faction; Caldari ones do kinetic damage, Gallente ones do thermal damage, Minmatar ones do explosive damage, and Amarr ones do These drones should require weaponry level 5, generalized drone skill, and a specific combat drone skill.

Dones could also be used for electronic warfare. Example:

Webifier drones to slow down enemies.

Drones that do target painting that increases signature of target to make them easily spotted, as well as flying above the player to spot enemies. Use your imagination to think up skill requirements.

Drones that jam sensors of nearby enemies. Would be great for hiding one's location from the rest of the enemy team while.

Personally, I would love to see drones integrated into some new weapons. For example:

Drone rifle: A long range rifle that fires explosive drone disks that the player must remote control to drive them to the target. Has great damage, and great range, but remote controlling the disk into an enemy puts the user at risk since he's no longer observing his own surroundings because the shooter is viewing in the camera perspective of the disk. The drones would also be really awesome for passively spotting enemies for one's team.

Drone launcher: A gun similar to the swarm launcher that launches flying circular drones to circle around, and do continuous damage to enemy infantry. The drones themselves would be be very powerful, but would be great as distractions, and support.

What do you guys think the role of drones should be in Dust? Discuss.

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.04 15:13:00 - [1] - Quote EVE Online has drones, Dust will be getting drone enemies for PVE. However like EVE, drones can have useful applications for players.The purpose of this thread is to discuss ideas regarding what the role of drones should be in Dust. (I got the idea for this thread from Vermaak Doe) One great application for drones would be as logistics helpers. For example: Medic drone: Flies around, and revives people near the owner. Should require level 5 nanite inhector skills, drone command skills, and a specific medical drone skill. EDIT: A medic drone could also just drag mortally wounded teammates out of harm's way for the player to manually revive them. Repair drone: Flies around, and repairs the armor of people near the owner. Should require level 5 repair tool skills, drone command skills, and a specific repair drone skill. Combat drones would also be a possible application. Example: Flying gunner drones that patrol a specific location where they are deployed. They should be fairly weak, and not that much of a threat (until they are at much higher tiers at least). They should be one for each faction; Caldari ones do kinetic damage, Gallente ones do thermal damage, Minmatar ones do explosive damage, and Amarr ones do These drones should require weaponry level 5, generalized drone skill, and a specific combat drone skill. Dones could also be used for electronic warfare. Example: Webifier drones to slow down enemies. Drones that do target painting that increases signature of target to make them easily spotted, as well as flying above the player to spot enemies. Use your imagination to think up skill requirements. Drones that jam sensors of nearby enemies. Would be great for hiding one's location from the rest of the enemy team while. Personally, I would love to see drones integrated into some new weapons. For example: Drone rifle: A long range rifle that fires explosive drone disks that the player must remote control to drive them to the target. Has great damage, and great range, but remote controlling the disk into an enemy puts the user at risk since he's no longer observing his own surroundings because the shooter is viewing in the camera perspective of the disk. The drones would also be really awesome for passively spotting enemies for one's team. Drone launcher: A gun similar to the swarm launcher that launches flying circular drones to circle around, and do continuous damage to enemy infantry. The drones themselves would be be very powerful, but would be great as distractions, and support. EDIT: Drones could also be used as cover, like have a drone plant itself in a specified area, and activate a shield generator to protect friendly players behind it. What do you guys think the role of drones should be in Dust? Discuss.
Keradil Ledeuxieme Doomheim 24	Posted - 2012.10.04 15:41:00 - [2] - Quote I like some of your ideas, but introducing drones into gameplay may cause massive lag, just as they do in Eve. Although I could see having them as part of vehicles, ie. drones which counter incoming missiles, repair drones, or healing ones like you mentioned. Would be interesting to operate a flying ambulance in support of infantry.
Etero Narciss Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 112	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:12:00 - [3] - Quote Your description of the flying combat drones reminds me of the ones from Killzone 2 (as they originally were, before the patches). I like it.
Gcember Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:24:00 - [4] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EVE Online has drones, Dust will be getting drone enemies for PVE. However like EVE, drones can have useful applications for players.The purpose of this thread is to discuss ideas regarding what the role of drones should be in Dust. (I got the idea for this thread from Vermaak Doe) One great application for drones would be as logistics helpers. For example: Medic drone: Flies around, and revives people near the owner. Should require level 5 nanite inhector skills, drone command skills, and a specific medical drone skill. Repair drone: Flies around, and repairs the armor of people near the owner. Should require level 5 repair tool skills, drone command skills, and a specific repair drone skill. Combat drones would also be a possible application. Example: Flying gunner drones that patrol a specific location where they are deployed. They should be fairly weak, and not that much of a threat (until they are at much higher tiers at least). They should be one for each faction; Caldari ones do kinetic damage, Gallente ones do thermal damage, Minmatar ones do explosive damage, and Amarr ones do These drones should require weaponry level 5, generalized drone skill, and a specific combat drone skill. Dones could also be used for electronic warfare. Example: Webifier drones to slow down enemies. Drones that do target painting that increases signature of target to make them easily spotted, as well as flying above the player to spot enemies. Use your imagination to think up skill requirements. Drones that jam sensors of nearby enemies. Would be great for hiding one's location from the rest of the enemy team while. Personally, I would love to see drones integrated into some new weapons. For example: Drone rifle: A long range rifle that fires explosive drone disks that the player must remote control to drive them to the target. Has great damage, and great range, but remote controlling the disk into an enemy puts the user at risk since he's no longer observing his own surroundings because the shooter is viewing in the camera perspective of the disk. The drones would also be really awesome for passively spotting enemies for one's team. Drone launcher: A gun similar to the swarm launcher that launches flying circular drones to circle around, and do continuous damage to enemy infantry. The drones themselves would be be very powerful, but would be great as distractions, and support. What do you guys think the role of drones should be in Dust? Discuss. I am impressed how you motivated this post. I defenitively agree! +1
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:18:00 - [5] - Quote I've said my opinion on this in every drone thread that pops up. No NPC allies in competitive multiplayer games. They're bad. NPC allies are not affected by lag, player error, or level of skill. Unless they are scripted to be incredibly stupid and barely useful, drones are going to be 'unfair' in a competitive environment. Like said above, they are not affected by lag. In laggy situations a combat drone would utterly eat anyone it saw. It's also generally unavoidable to have the AI in FPS games not 'cheat' and know where enemies are before the players do. Without adding in a ridiculous spread or low accuracy to make them miss most of their shots, they will generally outshoot a player as well, even if their damage is much lower than the player is a bad thing. Even if they are implemented as in eve and only follow specific player orders with no automation, it still doesn't solve the advantage they have by not being affected by lag. Combat drones should never happen. EVER. Support/logistics drones are more forgivable but IMO that just downplays the importance of the logistics role as a whole if you have disposable bots that can do it for you, why have a logibro?
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:34:00 - [6] - Quote Unmanned turrets are autonomous killing machines, combat drones would be much weaker, dumb and primarily serve as as distractions or support. I don't play EVE, but doesn't EVE have lag as well? I heard it does, and drones didn't ruin EVE. Personally, I don't really care about combat drones one way or the other, I'm just listing possible applications; if it can be balanced right, I see no problem with it, but I guess we disagree on if it can. A logistics drone can enhance logibros instead of replacing them. The internets informs me that logidrones exist in EVE, as well as logiships. If the role can be shared between drones and capsuleers, maybe it can be shared between drones and mercs. The drone-based light weapons (probably will never happen), and the E-warfare is what I find the most desirable.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.05 04:35:00 - [7] - Quote Anymore thoughts on the subject?
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 385	Posted - 2012.10.05 04:48:00 - [8] - Quote For the drone to target an enemy it could have to be shot or the user has to be facing the enemy
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.07 06:38:00 - [9] - Quote Anyone have any more ideas for limitations? or possible drone ideas?
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.07 07:02:00 - [10] - Quote I honestly hate the idea of any AI-controlled stuff being in the game's PvP component. I don't want to fight bots when I'm in a game against other players. The enemy turrets auto-targeting stuff within range is as far as it should ever go. I hope they never add AI controlled drones. On the other hand, remotely controlled drones that players can deploy and assume control over, and which have some abilities that make them worth bringing, those would be okay. As long as it's a player who's doing the aiming, I'm okay with that. But I hope Dust never let's people use bots to do functions that players should be doing themselves. Want to get revived? Get a friend with a nanite injector. Want to kill someone? Shoot him yourself. No bots, not for PvP, not ever.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.10 01:16:00 - [11] - Quote Drones we control ourselves would be cool.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.28 23:10:00 - [12] - Quote Would be great to defend spawn points like drop uplinks.
Onar Kion Dark Horizon Industries 26	Posted - 2012.10.29 02:04:00 - [13] - Quote Just playing a game, waiting for 5 to 8 minutes to start, then it's already going on. After that getting 0 kills but getting killed 8 times from snipers that are already covering your last spawn point. The MCC and last spawn back were right next to each other. Is rather frustrating, and in other games I don't mind as much, here I mind it's costing ton's of isk. So I am just going to go back to using default suits, I'm not seeing much of a different between suits and weapons I trained for then one they give me. Playing Ghost Recon Future Soldier a lot, for me personally I like that style of game play better, a cover system. That is just my preference, I like slower, longer drawn out engagements then run and gun. Anyway, it makes me wish Dust had some of the features of that GRF. Like UAV, where it's not a computer controlled drone, but it's controlled by me. like in GRF, I toss it in the air I can control it, it doesn't have weapons but it can spot snipers and enemy movements, to point out guys for me time. The enemy markers will fade if you lose line of site. The UAV can be shot done. Also being able to plant a quick Gun Pod that has a arc of fire to help protect positions.
Shiro Mokuzan GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 106	Posted - 2012.10.29 02:13:00 - [14] - Quote Dislike it all you want, but I'm pretty sure drones are coming, and I am looking forward to it. This is not a "competitive FPS" as the term is normally used. Things don't need to be "fair". Plus we already have AI weapon platforms and they don't break the game.
NeoprotoD Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 28	Posted - 2012.10.29 03:49:00 - [15] - Quote A well thought out idea Kage I think there's some things in there CCP should consider. Yes drones are in EVE but EVE is a very different game in terms of scale. They could be implemented in Dust on a smaller scale. To minimize the "PVE in a PVP match" factor there could be a limit like the vehicle limit currently in place or vehicles and drones could even share the same limit so corps would have to choose between vehicles or drones.
Joe Darkwater Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2012.10.29 04:44:00 - [16] - Quote I dont agree with those logistic drones. The rest seems to be fine but we already got manned vehicles for that job - next to the infantry who can use equipment plus drones? - that can be dangerously overpowered. especially when all this stuff gets close to the highest Tier and best possible fittings. But I'd like to include mine(ing) drones - pretty similar to the spider mines in Starcraft. For those who dont know what I'm talking about: An almost invisible buried drone that can rush out of the ground and follows enemies for a short period of time. Assaults die, heavys get some serious damage and scouts can just run faster than those little helpers.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.29 09:34:00 - [17] - Quote tbqh i dont see the point in bothering to add all this stuff. To me it's dev time wasted. Why ? Because i tend to think, like Nova, that no NPC killing\medic\anything should be add to a multiplayer gameplay. It's already boring to get shot by an empty Turret even though it is pretty cool. Then, if those drones are only meant to be slow, or weak, or just a distraction so they dont end up being OP or boring to other players. Then why bother ? really. Also, do we need to add even more stuff that will eat even more PS3 resources ? In conclusion, what you suggest is not bad itself. It's even pretty neet. But it wont fit a multiplayer FPS game
angelarch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 93	Posted - 2012.10.29 09:37:00 - [18] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: I've said my opinion on this in every drone thread that pops up. No NPC allies in competitive multiplayer games. They're bad. NPC allies are not affected by lag, player error, or level of skill. . . . Understood that you hate the idea of drones in multiplayer matches, but I disagree on your basic assumptions. Ever play a FPS co-op with other human players? What are those things you are shooting and are shooting back at you? Those hundreds of things "not affected by lag or player error" are engine driven NPC's exactly the same as a drones, and look how EASY THEY ARE TO KILL. Just two human players with laggy internet connections from two different countries can wipe out a thousand NPC drones without dying once. Coding realistic AI is very difficult and by that virtue results in some fairly predictable behavior (or "smoke and mirrors") that a human player can easily counter. The only way a drone is harder to kill than a human player in any situation, is if it is SPECIFICALLY programmed to cheat. Never in all gaming history has NPC's been harder enemies than a real player if the AI is only provided information like a real player would have. Human players are ALWAYS superior firepower. Also I agree with OP, yes pls add remote sentries or drones to Dust. We got them in EVE which is 100% human multiplayer and everyone is still alive lol. Add them here too.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.10.29 11:15:00 - [19] - Quote I would guess they would take a equipment slot for drone controllers, so it is more a different build for a logi then replacing the logi. Gallente favor drones so the gallente logi will use repair drone while minmatar use repair gun, or they will have bonuses/slots that lean this way. EvE drone skills for people that were curious/may inspire drones (x1)control 1 drone/lv drone interfacing (x5, requires drones lv5) +20% damage/mining yield per level drone navigation(x1, requires drones lv4) +5% drone speed/lv drone Sharpshooting (1x, requires drones lv5) +5%/lv optimal range Drone Durability (5x, requires drones lv4) +5%/lv hp scout drone operation(x1, requires drones lv) adds 5km to control range per level, base is 20km operation skills for all other drone types unlock drones and give a bonus to using that type, like the weapon op skills. I never had a problem with the drones in Killzone 3. Small drones like the one in PlayStation home for downloading dust would be fine, even in groups of five. Ships in Eve were limited in drones controlled by player skills, and bandwidth and drone storage. Once drones are added any suit that can deploy them would have a bandwidth, this limits the amount of active drones. Some drones take more then others. The storage I figure will be as equipment slots, so a logi could carry more. Gallente suits will probably all have some bandwidth, while caldari will mostly have none. Amarr and Minmatar in between the extremes. I suggest only players and drones controlled by players directly(remote controlled) can add enemy to tacnet, any combat drones will only fire at enemies already detected.
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 145	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:49:00 - [20] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: I've said my opinion on this in every drone thread that pops up. No NPC allies in competitive multiplayer games. They're bad. NPC allies are not affected by lag, player error, or level of skill. Unless they are scripted to be incredibly stupid and barely useful, drones are going to be 'unfair' in a competitive environment. Like said above, they are not affected by lag. In laggy situations a combat drone would utterly eat anyone it saw. It's also generally unavoidable to have the AI in FPS games not 'cheat' and know where enemies are before the players do. Without adding in a ridiculous spread or low accuracy to make them miss most of their shots, they will generally outshoot a player as well, even if their damage is much lower than the player is a bad thing. Even if they are implemented as in eve and only follow specific player orders with no automation, it still doesn't solve the advantage they have by not being affected by lag. Combat drones should never happen. EVER. Support/logistics drones are more forgivable but IMO that just downplays the importance of the logistics role as a whole if you have disposable bots that can do it for you, why have a logibro? WOW, Nova, you seem very adamant about this. There have been other games where drones have worked, and worked fairly well. The Killzone relation is a good example. What about the sentry guns of other games. A way to do this is to give the drone a cone of perception which would allow a SMART player to work around it and get behind. And actually, since everything is client side, the general latency of the player would come into consideration and would eventually affect the performance of the drones. Granted it would not be to the same scale as player to player latency issues. Be a reasonable and intelligent human being that has some skills in critical thinking. To completely deny an idea because you don't agree with it is a sign of prejudice and a willfully blind mind. Those two in combination are tremendously dangerous.

Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:56:00 - [21] - Quote This is my idea from this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=374721#post374721 I did actually read on the drones you had posted, and honestly the UVAC sounds a lot like BF3's MAV, because you can "spot" people using the MAV which gives out their locations to your squad. If we're talking about just passive reconnaissance, then the scanning drone could simply pick out enemies the same way they're picked out by aiming at them. But that seems kind of superfluous in my opinion. So I say the drone's scanning should be increased somehow: maybe making every enemy on the drone's screen light up like a christmas tree, perhaps even having an outline of them appearing through walls or other barriers? I think that would make the drone's scanning quite useful, even if there were no armaments for it. And the one piloting the drone could receive a point bonus for every enemy killed that they had highlighted. I think this would make the drone very useful for coordinating things like precision strikes or orbital bombardments. As for the ground drone, this, I think, could be useful, but the EOD bot in Battlefield is notoriously difficult to control. Aiming a gun with it would be hard. And honestly, the vehicle controls in this game make me a lot less inclined to drive one of them around than I otherwise would be, despite the awesomeness of drones themselves. In addition to these two types I would also like to submit two more. The first would be airborne, but much bigger, I think, than the simple scanning drone. I think we should separate the scanning drone from the combat aerial drone, both to avoid the one drone becoming OP and to give drone users a sense of choice, that they can decide which kind of drone they want to use without having to be restricted to only one air type. So this drone would have the same scanning capacity to a regular dropsuit, but would be able to fly around and engage ground targets. It could call down guided rockets, perhaps from the MCC, or use some sort of mounted blaster or mass driver. In my mind I see it as the tactician's drone from Killzone 3, which was controlled by AI, but I think allowing it to be remote-controlled is also viable. The second kind of drone is a personal-defense type, also featured in Killzone 3 and used by the medic class. The personal defense drone was AI, and followed the medic about, opening fire on any enemies that came within range with a minigun attached to its underbelly. The drone was very fragile, but was loyal almost to a fault, sticking with the medic while he bled out on the floor. I think this would be a very useful add-on for logi-users, perhaps even dropsuit-specific to them. The drone would follow the logi around, providing a bit of backup and extra firepower in lieu of protective squadmates. Improved versions of the drone could even fix the logi's armor or provide temporary shield hardening, or maybe even inject nanites to its downed master.
Wintars Boar ZionTCD Legacy Rising 64	Posted - 2012.10.29 21:32:00 - [22] - Quote I like the autonomous support drones. An armor repper drone at 5-10 hps/sec shouldn't be to nerf worthy IMO. I think controlled combat drones that you control in packs. As the skill increases the number of drones you control at one time increases. You target something and shoot it, the other four shoot it as well. Could be a really fun addition. Weapons would have to be sidearm powered I'd think? I love the haters though. Good work guys! Keep it up. Wouldn't be a forum without you all
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.11.12 19:41:00 - [23] - Quote Still would be cool.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.11.12 23:02:00 - [24] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44559&find=unread Related thread
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.11.15 08:17:00 - [25] - Quote Zat Earthshatter's idea: A medic assistant drone to drag bodies out of harm's way for safer revives. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=399377#post399377
Velvet Overkill Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 104	Posted - 2012.11.15 13:03:00 - [26] - Quote Having drones be deployed from installations or vehicles like logistics LAVs would be nice. It would give logi LAVs the needed usefulness boost that it sorely needs.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.15 15:30:00 - [27] - Quote No drones that perform functions players would otherwise be performing, no combat drones unless they're remotely controlled by the drone user. The emphasis should always be on player ability. You should not be able to diminish the value of a logistics player by carrying a repair or revive drone. You should not be able to totally outgun your enemies by everyone packing a combat drone that fires on its own. Drones should be situational, and not overlap with functionality that already exists in the game. Two examples I've seen recently of drones I think'd be okay are decoy drones, drones that enhance shield regeneration, and I also think surveillance drones would be alright too.
Azraen Kador 10	Posted - 2012.11.15 17:42:00 - [28] - Quote Another role: Recon drones They are generally active scanners that fly on a certain path
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:46:00 - [29] - Quote Recon drones that have a relatively short flight time and only one or two uses before running out of juice wouldn't be bad.
Dante Dragonsguard Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 22	Posted - 2012.11.17 09:39:00 - [30] - Quote Here is a simple thing i think you should be able to do with a medical/support(ammo) drone. If for example you and a squad mate are both taking fire and he she needs a repair/or ammo but your separated and you cant run to him/her because if you step into the open you'll be gunned down. Then you should be able to target him using your neo-com(the computer strapped to your left arm not the menu) toss the drone in the air or place it on the ground like a little spider drone and off it goes over to your squad mate without the risk of you dying. then when it's done it returns. Heck i just thought of something. what if you had a little hacker drone? for those moments where your at an installation by yourself because your squad mates where killed off or you were the lone guy that made it through the defensive line. you could run up to the installation attach the drone to the HUD and then continue to hack defend the area while it hacks away. Many of us find it annoying when were hacking and start getting bullets or elbows to the back of the head. This would at least give you a better chance of surviving the 5-6 guys that start running towards you to try to stop you once they realize your hacking.



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