DUST Search - [Suggestion]A Injector and Repper solution for LogiBros

CCP Nothin wrote:

Thanks for such admirably patient posting. A reply to this thread is long overdue, but here goes.

First off, I think the concept behind having higher WP rewards from using more expensive gear (and thus putting more ISK at at risk) is great and in line with our philosophy. We have looked into ways of making the WP rewards for support roles scale with the level of equipment you are using, but unfortunately it has turned out not to doable without some further development effort on the WP rewards system itself. That said, it's something we definitely interested in doing. Having high level weaponry makes you better at earning WP, as your killing potential is improved. Having high level equipment make you better at earning WP would only make sense.

Some historical musings about repair rewards specifically:

In Chromosome, the repair rewards were changed from the old cyclical system. We replaced that with two new rewards:

Guardian - 35 WP - You're actively repairing a player who kills a target
Triage - 25 WP - You repair someone who has taken damage within the last 60 seconds

The primary reason for switching from the old cyclical rewards to the above was exploitation -- with the old system, we saw players coming up with all sorts of cunning schemes for racking up record amounts of WP in record times. The new rewards are more difficult to exploit, as obtaining them requires interaction between the teams (and by interaction, I mean shooting the other team in the faceplate). As you would have to coordinate with players on both teams to exploit this (something that shouldn't be easy in e.g. instant battles), they should be more robust against exploitation. With the new rewards we also added a (tweakable) cooldown to how often you could earn rewards to have a fall back in case someone found a clever new way to game the system.

The new rewards are compatible with scaling based on the quality of equipment used and it's just a question of investing us finding some development time to make the WP reward system support it.

In the meantime, we'd love to hear your feedback on how the repair rewards are performing to make adjustments if necessary. Do you feel that the reward levels reasonable? Do you feel that reward experience you get consistent (i.e. do you get rewards when you expect to get them)?


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ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 37	Posted - 2013.05.09 04:13:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Nothin wrote: Thanks for such admirably patient posting. A reply to this thread is long overdue, but here goes. First off, I think the concept behind having higher WP rewards from using more expensive gear (and thus putting more ISK at at risk) is great and in line with our philosophy. We have looked into ways of making the WP rewards for support roles scale with the level of equipment you are using, but unfortunately it has turned out not to doable without some further development effort on the WP rewards system itself. That said, it's something we definitely interested in doing. Having high level weaponry makes you better at earning WP, as your killing potential is improved. Having high level equipment make you better at earning WP would only make sense. Some historical musings about repair rewards specifically: In Chromosome, the repair rewards were changed from the old cyclical system. We replaced that with two new rewards: Guardian - 35 WP - You're actively repairing a player who kills a target Triage - 25 WP - You repair someone who has taken damage within the last 60 seconds The primary reason for switching from the old cyclical rewards to the above was exploitation -- with the old system, we saw players coming up with all sorts of cunning schemes for racking up record amounts of WP in record times. The new rewards are more difficult to exploit, as obtaining them requires interaction between the teams (and by interaction, I mean shooting the other team in the faceplate). As you would have to coordinate with players on both teams to exploit this (something that shouldn't be easy in e.g. instant battles), they should be more robust against exploitation. With the new rewards we also added a (tweakable) cooldown to how often you could earn rewards to have a fall back in case someone found a clever new way to game the system. The new rewards are compatible with scaling based on the quality of equipment used and it's just a question of investing us finding some development time to make the WP reward system support it. In the meantime, we'd love to hear your feedback on how the repair rewards are performing to make adjustments if necessary. Do you feel that the reward levels reasonable? Do you feel that reward experience you get consistent (i.e. do you get rewards when you expect to get them)? As a fellow logi bro, I do feel that repairs need a little bit of rework. As it stands right now, from what I experience personally, you as a player enter a WP cooldown after 50-75 triage points worth of repair. Effectively, it means I don't bother repping more than one person usually, cause i'm not being rewarded for that second person. If you could tweak the rewards where we are getting triage points based purely on the amount of armor repaired, that would go a long way in encouraging people like me (assault logis) to start repairing again. Something like: you get triage points for every xx armor repaired (you guys know the rate of WP/armor repped internally, ill let you fill in that blank). Up to say.. 60 (or whatever you intend) WP per person repaired, the person being repped enters a xx second cooldown before you or another logi can repair them and gain WP for doing so. So I could, in theory, run around and repair people continuously and get a constant stream of WP for doing so. Higher level tools, by the nature of their higher repair rate, would automatically gain WP faster for doing so. You would probably need to tune down the WP rate for repairing, but by decreasing the WP/armor and increasing the WP/person you could make it so armor repping logis could just go nuts and gain tons of WP, but thats okay because they have given up their ability to kill people so they could support the team. Just for example here: obv tweak the numbers as you see fit. 10 Triage WP generated for every 50 points of armor repaired, maximum 300 armor repaired before player being healed enters triage CD, at 60 WP generated by healing logi. Logi himself can never enter into a triage CD, he could continuously bounce from person to person repairing like mad and just watching +10 Triage popping on his screen every second or two. High level repair tools would have these +10s popping up like crazy. the core too at 105/s would see +10 pop up twice per second. I emphasize a higher resolution of lower points per lower armor repaired, cause i often dont get points for topping off fellow assault players as they didnt have quite enough damage for me to see that +25. Multiple logis healing the same person would share that WP pool and exhaust it quicker. Same thing for vehicles and installations, except you could do +10 Repair for every 100 healed until 600 pts repaired. This would help against exploits as the logi would have to continuously find new targets, and a large scale exploit wouldnt be worth the time anyways. Lastly, make the CD work like overheat on a laser. Where the CD is continuously going down based on how much was actually repaired. If the full rep CD engages at say.. 60s for example, but I only repair 30 WP worth, then it starts a counter where every 10 WP repaired, adds 10s to the CD which goes down continuously after the first 10 WP has been repaired. So if another logi reps a person for 30 WP, and then I come along, I don't just get boned getting 30 WP from him and then he enters into traige CD. Could even make like how shields recharge, where there is a delay.. say the counter doesn't start counting until the person is no longer being repped (probably very similar to what is happening right now). I dunno, my 2 cents on the matter.
ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 37	Posted - 2013.05.09 05:07:00 - [2] - Quote Even something like a +5 scan assist on a kill would go a long way to helping scanners.