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[Suggestion]A Injector and Repper solution for LogiBros

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
The Robot Devil BetaMax. 15	Posted - 2012.10.16 05:20:00 - [1] - Quote Whispercrow wrote: Short version for Xiree: PROBLEM: You get points for a set time of healing, not the amount you heal. Better healing gear means you heal more in a set amount of time. Thus, they get healed faster and you get less points because you can't heal them as long. POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS: Make the point reward base on amount healed or % of amount healed. Bad solution, needs more programming. Make the better healing gear give you points faster than the crappy gear. Can do it by arbitrarily telling it to (per cycle) or can make them do it faster (have shorter cycles). PS: He said all this in his first post. The lower repair tools repair about 25 HP/s and the triage does 30+. More people can be healed in the same amount of time and that equals more points. I do think it should reward in real time not by complete heals. I heal lots of mercs on the run just to give them a boost but get no points- at all, thank you warriors- for the little I did.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. 15	Posted - 2012.10.16 05:28:00 - [2] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I would like to see repairing yourself brought back as an option when you are not targeting anyone. Sure, take away the SP/WP gain - but it just makes me more of a threat on the battlefield - it is a small but worthwhile advantage for carrying that thing around. Only on proto gear, it should be a perk of proto tools.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. 15	Posted - 2012.10.16 05:40:00 - [3] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Quick (related) question for the LogiBros here assembled. It's a two parter 1) Has anyone gotten to test the armor repair Nano Hives in Codex? (If so are they working?) 2) If they are in fact repairing properly, do said repairs award War Points (and if so at what rate?) 1. They work fine but repairs kill them quick. 2. WP are rewarded for resupply only.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. 15	Posted - 2012.10.17 04:25:00 - [4] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Cross Atu wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: About repper's 'better repper, less WP' -problem: If WP's are awarded after each rep cycle, there's a simple and elegant solution: Make better reppers have faster cycle time. . . . This is pretty close to what I propose in the OP, the one aspect you're overlooking is that currently higher level reppers heal more per cycle than lower Meta ones so unless that aspect is changed s My point was exactly to change that all reppers have same rep amount but cycle decreases as meta level gets better. Should be simple. It does. More HP /s is a faster cycle time. 25 HP/S for 10 s is 250HP. 32HP/s for 10 s is 320HP. More HP per second @ a higher meta level means that the meta levels improve cycle time thus giving more points and that equals better. Prototype levels gear is more for better. It may not yield more points but it allows lower level suits to carry more modules or better modules to keep cost lower. Proto modules and equipment are to make low level suits more useful. Just because it cost more or take longer to train doesn't mean we should get more anything. Some skills are just because they say so.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. 15	Posted - 2012.11.07 08:03:00 - [5] - Quote ugg reset wrote: If you feel that then entire point of Logistics is to Grind Warpoints then keep pushing for change. At the moment you get wp for performing an action regardless of what price you paid for your tools in the market for it. I wouldn't have it any other way Thank you, why should logistics get more points for better gear? No one else gets more points for better stuff why should we? I wish the SP was passive so this thread would be pointless.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 23	Posted - 2013.03.22 09:04:00 - [6] - Quote Maybe I misunderstand this whole topic but I will try anyway. I have been a logi for almost a year now and I don't think the system is broken. As far as I know no other anything gives more points for higher meta gear. I also believe that running in better gear gives you the ability to do more for WPs. If I revive someone with a high tier NI they have more HP and therefore I don't have to worry as much about them being shot down as soon as they get up, I don't get to repair them for WPs as much but they are able to assist me while I will engage targets or move to another team member that needs help. I can do more faster with better gear and I admit that in certain situations lower gear will reward more points but the potential to earn more points comes from better equipment. Again, I have been a logi for 99% of the time the game has been running. I was in the first closed beta they released. I on average come in the top five on the leader board for both sides an there has been plenty of times I have made over 1k WP and only have three kills and three deaths. I once came in second with 3 kills and 3 deaths with the top guy having 41/1 he made 2553 and I had 1313 WPs (I took a picture or just ask pink FLUFF). It is not that I think that we as logi get points faster or easier because I do my jobs well and the team and my squad benefit but I also don't think we need more. A good logi who knows their job and does it well doesn't need anymore points.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 23	Posted - 2013.03.23 08:33:00 - [7] - Quote Thanks for not being a douche in your reply. You are correct in that the situation is complicated an all sides as far how points are rewarded and caps applied. My only response to the argument that assault classes make more points is that we are playing a war game not a hospital game, I am not trying to be a smart a$$, and warriors should get a little more for doing a good job. The game is only three months into open so we will see changes to lists of stuff and Cross is not wrong and I would love to make more SP but we need to keep the discussion open because the more ideas that come from the players the better. I run shield transporters and armor reping LAVs that give me no points or very few if I am lucky. I would love to see skm SP in that area. Lastly Cross' suggested real time WP for amount repaired over cycles completed, I think this would be the best solution for logi mercs and WP per cycle on vehicles to help out the vehicle reps and transfers. Posting from my phone so please excuse my english skills, I am working on lvl 4.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 24	Posted - 2013.03.25 07:24:00 - [8] - Quote Cross you are starting to pull me over to your side. I have been thinking about this lots more and I have been watching my play style and suit fits and I have realized that as I move up the logi equipment ladder I have been doing a lot more killing and less healing. I am not sure if it is because I am better shot, running with other logi in the squad or something else I am not aware of but you are getting more correct every battle. At the beginning of the last reset I would have a negative KDR at the end of every battle with few exceptions but I would always be at the top of the board and now that I have more skills in "core" areas I find myself with a positive KDR. I give partial credit to my ELM and our love of tears. I have noticed that I don't drop many SPs in logi equipment compared to other areas because I like my equipment. I do run advanced stuff because I like it better than MTL or standard but you are correct that I have no good reason fro proto gear, except for a two beam tool. You have almost hooked me in with you. Lastly, what is your opinion on vehicle repair and shield transportation? I have a lot of fun helping out team vehicles but get NO bonuses or payment. My reping and trans LAV cost about 100k and when I go zero and three and loose one or two LAVs and dropsuit it hurts my wallet. Almost anything would be a better system them that.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 30	Posted - 2013.03.26 09:50:00 - [9] - Quote Complex questions with even more complex answers. The more I think about it the more difficult it becomes. The problem is farming. If logi SP scaled with weapon tiers then there would be even more logi mercs using proto gear. They would squad up and let each other rep them while they took damage on purpose for the rep points and then lay down for the revive causing a farming loop. I believe that the only true fix is passive SP and an ISK reward system that pays you to do your job in ISK and WP but not SP. This would pay me for my actions and take the pressure of the "SP grind" away. When I started DUST I was hoping to see a passive SP system because this game shouldn't be about grinding it only. The grind should be for ISK and experience, but I am optimistic that as the game matures the SP will become less of a flash point. I am sold on the point that the SP progression through the equipment tiers are out of sync with the weapons progression. Some aspects more so than others but the problem is the grind not so much the system. The view of SP seems to take lead over anything else in the game. I was hoping for a game with soul and passion that gave people a reason to go to war over just the next weapon they can shoot. I am not saying this is a bad quality but it should not be the only reason to fight; in fact it should be the last. I am lvl 5 laser rifle and I couldn't wait to melt some mercs face in two seconds but when a guy I repaired during one battle remembered me a week later and wanted to squad up because of my reputation it was way more satisfying than that viziam will ever be.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 30	Posted - 2013.03.27 07:08:00 - [10] - Quote I like the idea of -10 points for every revive after the first, on the same merc in a set time, till zero. OK here I go again. The repair tool is starting to stick out to me as a problem more than any other piece of gear. The UL either allow more active at once, more carried, more spawns per or faster spawns. Everyone of the "upgrades" allow for more points to be made faster when compared to lower tier items. The injectors repair more armor per level and thus the merc that is revived doesn't need a rep allowing you to move on to another target ( 1 rep = 50 and two cycles = 50) and make more points than they would have ( based on time spend performing the actions) if lower tier injectors were used. In the same amount of time it takes me to revive one merc and then rep 2 cycles ( about 150 HP) that equals about 100 WPs I can revive three mercs with no reps to almost full armor or whatever the proto injector repairs and make 150 WPs. Nano hives are in the same category as uplinks. The better the hive the longer it supplies or it supplies more or supplies faster. This thread has been very fun. I like complex topics in games that make me forget about RL. Again, it is hard to convey passion or seriousness in these posts and I don't want to come off as a douche. I am only bringing things to light that I think are valid arguments. I am not saying I am correct as much I am asking for feedback on my views of the topic. This has been my favorite thread so far because it has not degraded into name calling and trolling.

The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 30	Posted - 2013.03.27 08:05:00 - [11] - Quote CODE Breaker93 wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: I like the idea of -10 points for every revive after the first, on the same merc in a set time, till zero. That works for that scenario but who will it determine who you are rezzing? If I taking off -10 for constant rezzing, whattells it thatthe guy dead beside you isn't you? Just asking cause I don't want a enemy to kill my whole squad, me kill him, then I don't get proper wp for picking them up. If I revive the same merc three times in under a minute ( or whatever amount of time) then it would drop by 10 each revive after the first. This system would discourage farming revive points and promote more team play by decreasing the points made to zero for "bad" revives. If a logi or any other mercs revives me and I get shot back down then they should lay down cover fire before trying to revive me again or be penalized by decreasing points for ugly play.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 33	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:49:00 - [12] - Quote I love that stupid repair tool. It always comes back to reps being the problem either on vehicles or mercs. I don't know I am on the fence with this one.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 34	Posted - 2013.03.28 03:26:00 - [13] - Quote +1
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 35	Posted - 2013.03.28 04:40:00 - [14] - Quote I don't think team killing will go very far in this game. Reputation is king and unless they are going to make an alt and start over a bad label on their game will hurt them later. Team killers will be labeled as such and the first time a decent corp looses something and puts some type of bounty on that merc's head and word gets around there will be no corp that will take them for a while. Yes, team killing will happen but not like in any other FPS because this games involves loss of reputation and the loss of the ability to make ISK. Those are the only things that really matter and the only things people will know in a year or so. Just wait till API and CREST key start to drop for DUST and your employment history actually matters and people start to check into your forum posts and read what you typed in chat rooms. EVE people are suspicious, paranoid and DO use tools like evewho to look up pilots. That is why you don't use local in a WH. It will be the same on DUST.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1862	Posted - 2014.03.06 06:59:00 - [15] - Quote I forgot about this old thing. What is the topic and I will try to add. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1862	Posted - 2014.03.06 07:38:00 - [16] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: I forgot about this old thing. What is the topic and I will try to add. The TL;DR is as follows. Equipment currently does not properly scale it's risk vs reward. Both the scaling between equipment types and within many of the equipment lines is distorted in such a way that it incentiveizes the use of low meta gear by giving higher potential rewards to the lower meta gear. Suggested fix amounts to; scale equipment so that it's methodology is in line with that of the AR/other light weapons. For more details feel free to ask, I just figured a summation would give a bitter place to start at this point Cheers, Cross That is the same subject we were on last time. I have all equipment to at least 4 and tools to five. If you remember I see it a little differently. I agree that lower meta seems to offer more WP because you can do the WP action for longer or more often on one target but I think that higer meta equipment allows a logi to have more targets in a shorter time and can give more WP. At higher meta levels: Hives last longer and/or give reps. Scanners last longer. Uplinks have reduced time (allowing more mercs to get in before the UL is destroyed) or more spawns Tools have better range, dual beams and rep more (allowing more targets to be repped more quickly). Needles have more repped armor. The first three are self-evident on how they give more WP the higher up in tiers you go. Tools have dual beam, range or amount repped and all three provide the potential for more WP compared to the lower tiers. If you go by amount repped in % or cycles the higher tiers allows you to rep a merc more often if you are in a fire fight because the merc goes down less or it lets you rep multiple targets quickly. If you go by beams, two is almost always better than one and if you go by distance then the number of targets goes up. All of these give a good logi more WP The needle is the only one I cant say that higher tiers offer better rewards. I would agree to something like standard +40, advanced +50 and +60 at proto. I could see a system like the passenger drop off where the reviver gets a few points for every WP action the revived merc does. I don't think logis are hurting for points. #logilove https://twitter.com/BurlenDaire/status/384766378533588993/photo/1 https://twitter.com/BurlenDaire/status/418534464571342849/photo/1 https://twitter.com/BurlenDaire/status/436612116200816640/photo/1 https://twitter.com/BurlenDaire/status/437813744014749697/photo/1 https://twitter.com/BurlenDaire/status/440220295346282496/photo/1 https://twitter.com/BurlenDaire/status/440875768537939968/photo/1 I can pull numbers like this in most squads and enough where I don't even take the pictures anymore. I am not 100% convinced that a good logi needs more points because they are easy enough to rake in. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1873	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:30:00 - [17] - Quote The whole suit/equipment thing is going to be interesting, I hope I like it. I think one thing that can help is a WP cooldown indicator. I know I cap WP from my tool sometimes but I can't tell if the reason I'm not getting paid is because of cooldown, the glitch where WP don't show up when earned (does it to me in the beginning of a match, a lot) or the game isn't registering. I would take a notification like we have now that just flashes a zero. I like to know how much my stuff is use and knowing that I am in cooldown but my placement is good would be nice. I think the scaling of WP using the tiers is a good idea to a degree. On one hand it seems to make more sense -WP wise- to use cheap stuff and I do see that way of looking at it but on the other hand -coming from experience- I seem to make more WP using better stuff in almost every situation. I am on the fence. When I saw the topic pop back up I remembered what the last thing we were debating and I saw the newer posts and thought it was the same discussion. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1893	Posted - 2014.03.08 05:52:00 - [18] - Quote I would fine with a WP system that rewarded me based off of the percentage of armor repped and to be honest I think it would incentivize players to use better gear and suits for the purpose intended. I have three racial variants of logi suits at the advanced level. I use my Min for uplink deployment because of the speed and hack bonus, I hack after I deploy uplinks. I have a Gal for my for my dual rep suit and my dual hive suit and if I want to stay in battle longer and rep better I use an Amarr with a needle, Six tool and rep hives. I said that to say this. I don't mind the racial equipment bonus and to be honest it would more fit my style of loging. If you would like, I can run stater, standard, advanced and proto gear for a week each and report back with the screenshots of the end results. Nothing better than real world data. You make good arguments for progressively better rewards for higher tier equipment. It is good to see a merc who is out working for real #logilove (my # on twitter for good logi matches) I played about 10 matches today about 1/3 in a corp squad, 1/3 in pickups and 1/3 solo and I place second in WP on my team almost every time and usually at least 4th in the whole 32. I am not debating to try to stop you, I am debating to determine who is more correct and help articulate the problem better, without good data or well prepared points we have no chance of being heard. Many people confuse my up front way of voicing my opinion as trolling or being mean but it is just how I think. I am serious, if you want I will run different types of gear for a week each and report back with the tally. I will play the same as if I were in my favorite fit, I don't have any proto suits so I can't go to that level but I can give feedback up to the prototype suit level. I mainly use rep tools, they are my specialty. Joined a one man squad today and he only beat me once in WP and it was in the first match, about half way through when I first joined him. He beat me by around 750 WP or so with a 40+/around 5 match, never got within 1000 WP after that. That is the only reason why I say that a good logi doing logi stuff doesn't need any help in the WP department. My problem is going 0/10 and making 250K and my logi being 50k each. I don't really care that much because I usually go like 1/5 and I usually make a profit. Kind of drunk and need to stop typing. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
The Robot Devil Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2204	Posted - 2014.03.28 00:46:00 - [19] - Quote I went proto Min logi and I am loving it. The tool bonus is great and the suit feels like it is special. It is the only suit I have SP in. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
The Robot Devil Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2217	Posted - 2014.03.30 00:33:00 - [20] - Quote I have been working with the Minmatar Logi from the beginning of 1.8. I have the all the suits in the Min logi lineup and I have found that the advanced is the most profitable with a Six Kin rep tool. The 'Sever' BPO is squishy and dies quickly, especially if not in a squad directly behind a heavy. The Advanced has good stats and the extra low allows for two advanced plates and a complex repper, I carry the Six Kin tool because lower tiers don't offer the dual beam and I only make half the WP and around 80k less a match. The prototype suit is good but very expensive and with the adjustment to equipment it is hard to justify carrying expensive hives. My prototype has the Six Kin tool, a Wiyrkomi and Ishukone hive with a KIN-012 needle. I do think there is a bug in the KIN-012 because it sometimes revives at 100%. I use two hives, one for rep and one for ammo but they both run out so quickly that a low heavy can eat two like they aren't even there. For the money and the WP I say advanced if in a good squad but in a top notch squad the proto is better because of the extra health and the ability to carry two kinds of hives. I rarely run a prototype because two deaths doesn't make much ISK and the third death puts me in the red. My average pay is just over 300K in a good squad and an average of 2k WP with one heavy and over 3K with two good heavies. I have had some 4K matches but I was in a squad with two good heavies and a logi on me, the extra logi allows me to push harder and take more risks. #Logilove is where I post the matches I remember to snap a pic with my phone and almost all of those matches have been using an advanced suit with a proto tool. I only deploy uplinks from my Dragonfly light frame and during hardcore matches it is very profitable because I can deploy 4 advanced uplinks and it cost only around 10K. I have pretty much stopped using scanners in favor for the KIN-012 nanite injector. If there is a certain setup you want to know numbers about let me know, I only have SP in Minmatar mediums to three and Minmatar logi to five. All my other suits are BPOs or starters and I almost always carry a BPO Exile AR. I do not run squads so almost all of my points come from a tool. Please post screenshots of good logi rounds on twitter under #logilove. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke

The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2507	Posted - 2014.05.05 01:05:00 - [21] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Can we get WP for repping vehicles back? I would like that also, I rep vehicles here and there and some points would be nice. Seeing a blue tag would be nice in this thread. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke

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