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Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
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Posted - 2012.10.03 17:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
You can easily recreate the starter fits. Just select the Assault - XXX suit when creating a new fit, instant starter fit.
Also: Dragonfly suit + Tox SMG are a valid fit. You should be able to earn a few ISK with that. |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 17:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Mira Adari wrote:You can easily recreate the starter fits. Just select the Assault - XXX suit when creating a new fit, instant starter fit.
Also: Dragonfly suit + Tox SMG are a valid fit. You should be able to earn a few ISK with that. Not enough to cover my losses it seems As long as you use Dragonfly + Tox alone, or starter fits, you are losing nothing, or am I missing something?
And a militia fit is what? 5000 ISK or less for a complete fit? You earn that much for joining a match 10sec from the end and not do anything... |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 18:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:To answer all of your questions:
1.) The Dragonfly and Toxin suits are free - yes - but militia gear now costs per unit and the costs are rather high. My current fit is around 14,000 isk and I'm making around 90,000 - 120,000 isk a game.
2.) I am in a Corporation as can be seen beneath my name on the left, and just happen to be one of the primary squad leaders ^_^;;;
3.) I shouldn't have to get a hand-out from my corporation. What were to happen if I weren't in a corporation and were more of an introverted solo player?
4.) I don't intend to use Aurum for BPO items for two reasons. a.) because it seems pay-to-win. b.) I'm trying to simulate a player that would not normally have access to those things as not all players will invest in Aurum to play the game.
Edit: I'd imagine I would be a lot better off if I had went into one of my former specializations that I had used in previous builds as I had always had a kill-to-death ratio of above two-to-one. However, I am trying to simulate a player who isn't as skilled and thusly am going with the most difficult specialization this build has to offer which is the Close Quarters Scout build.
With this in mind, if a skilled player can't at least remain in the positives in both ISK and combat effectiveness, we can't honestly expect someone fresh to be able to do so - at this point the player would probably just quit but I've got a pretty obtuse resolve for trying to make it work xD I have a closed quarter scout suit with a shotgun, and while he dies in seconds, he also is very fast. I can take out groups of up to three people with it, depending on how well prepared I am, how they are positioned, the terrain (and lady luck of course). But I don't use it exclusively. It all depends on the situation. But even with a 14000 ISK fit, you can die about 8-12 times in a match and still stay positive. Even I can do that with my scout alone, and I would not describe myself as the most skilled player (together with my horrible latency of up to 2s).
And as I said, you can ALWAYS recreate the starter fits, if you deleted them. There is never a situation where you can't play because you don't have the ISK to afford a fit, just like you always have a rookie ship in EVE.
And if the class you chose doesn't work for you, field something else. Even the stupidest player will get behind that, so you don't need to simulate someone who doesn't |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 18:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
At the beginning I also used only starter fits, since I wanted to spend my ISK on skill books. I was not making much ISK with them, but once I had most of the skills I wanted, I spent ISK on equipment and also died less (because of the better equipment and the skills learned), thus making more ISK. The starter fits might not be as versatile as militia suits (since there are only 4), but they are exactly as efficient (since they ARE militia fits). You can also easily modify an existing starter fit (for example switch the AR with a militia shotgun) and make a really cheap fit that suits your needs (you then only have to pay for the weapon). The only limitation is that you can't remove starter fit items, only replace them. (And sadly starter fits now all use the assault suit)
Skihids wrote:What some folks don't realize is that your starter fits DO cost ISK now. . Starter fits don't cost anything. I use one that I edited to use a standard sniper rifle. I only pay for the rifle. |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 18:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Mira Adari wrote:At the beginning I also used only starter fits, since I wanted to spend my ISK on skill books. I was not making much ISK with them, but once I had most of the skills I wanted, I spent ISK on equipment and also died less (because of the better equipment and the skills learned), thus making more ISK. The starter fits might not be as versatile as militia suits (since there are only 4), but they are exactly as efficient (since they ARE militia fits). You can also easily modify an existing starter fit (for example switch the AR with a militia shotgun) and make a really cheap fit that suits your needs (you then only have to pay for the weapon). The only limitation is that you can't remove starter fit items, only replace them. (And sadly starter fits now all use the assault suit) Skihids wrote:What some folks don't realize is that your starter fits DO cost ISK now. . Starter fits don't cost anything. I use one that I edited to use a standard sniper rifle. I only pay for the rifle. Are you sure? Because that would seem to defeat the purpose of making militia items cost ISK. It would also create a third and very odd classification of gear, Non-BPO items that when grouped together become BPO. Yes I am sure. Starter fits don't disappear, they don't even have e number next to them telling you how many you have available. The downside of starter fits is the lack of versatility. There are only four of them, all with assault suits. If you want something different, you need to replace at least one item with a standard militia item and pay for that one item. You could make a fit that costs less than 500ISK that way. Of course, the ability to modify them is limited by PG/CPU, since you can not remove items from a starter fit, only replace them. Good luck trying to fit an militia drop uplink to a starter fit Also the only fits you can get unlimited, are assault, since all starter fits are assault. If you want to make a scout suit, you can't start with a starter fit and modify it, you have to completely build it from militia items from the store and pay for each and every item. |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 20:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Goric Rumis wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:The reason I'm not doing good with it is because it's the underdog specialization at the moment. Three things are playing into the difficulty aspect of this - and subsequently the reason why I'm not doing as well as I should with the Close Quarters Scout.
1.) Bullets slow you down when they hit you. 2.) Hit detection system was improved (dramatically). 3.) Strafe speeds were nerfed - and I don't think they're dynamic. Essentially what I mean by that is that a scout suit strafes at the same speed(s) as a heavy.
So, I think it's important to balance test this. The issue with not being able to afford militia gear came as a consequence of the larger issue which I have mentioned in a completely different (but very much related) thread. I agree it's important to balance test that, but what I mean is that, as a matter of cost-balance, dying as much as you're dying shouldn't (in the final build) be a result of specialization itself, but rather of poor execution within the specialization. It may be annoying that the suits cost too much for you right now to be an effective tester of that build, but that doesn't mean the costs need to be lowered. But is it poor execution on my part or is it the game mechanics in and of themselves? I don't see any other Close Quarters Scouts out on the field anymore - the be completely honest and I think there's a reason O_o;
I am running my shotgun scout almost constantly. But I haven't seen many others, either. But occasionally there are one or two on each team. SMG scouts are very rare, though. I use the SMG only as a sidearm on my SpecOps (Sniper and AV grenades on an assault suit). I am still quite efficient with the shotgun, but I die faster than last build. You just have to play it smart; flank, when you are not expected and hold your ground when someone expects you to try to flee or flank him and tries to anticipate. And when you have a high latency or framerate issues, you're toast.
Concerning costs, I don't really see a problem. Sure, you can't make a starter fit scout sadly, but an Assault with a shotgun is nearly as good in CQC. He is a bit slower, but also lives a bit longer. You can survive some situation that would kill a scout (like switching from one cover to another to flank a group of enemies). And when you take the frontline starter fit and replace the AR with a shotgun, you have a fit that costs 830 ISK. If you can't stay positive with that, you're doing it wrong.
Rorek IronBlood wrote:
Okay. Look I'm gonna make this simple. It's on the player themselves. Simple as that. Stop making excuses for everything. Avoiding? No. I have answered this twice now. You say well some people won't have this or that option. Well the truth is that you can always purchase the AUR, or look at the player market to purchase AUR or BPO iterms for your ISK. In the end ISK will always be more valuable then AUR, and players want more and more ISK. If you are having issues look at yourself, and what you are doing wrong. Also the 'Dragonfly' which I have spent over a hundred hours using alone is a good dropsuit, but like any piece of equipment or gear it is only as good as the player behind wielding it.
[Player skill > Passive character skills > equipment & gear]
Also the 'Skinweave' dropsuits are a fantastic dropsuit especially early on, and for most combat incursions. It's on the player though in the end. The real difference between higher tier dropsuits is slots, PG (Power Grid) and CPU (Central Processing Unit) power output. Again all which can be manipulated by passive skills.
Just be thankful that CCP was kind enough to give everyone pre-loaded infinite loadouts for your character classification which to fall back on. Because, I doubt I'd have been that kind.
Now if you want to discuss whether or not the ISK also has a degredation effect this build like skil points, then discuss that. Otherwise this whole thread boils down to a "you the player" sort of problem. Is that harsh? Maybe, but then again so is New Eden, and the EVE universe. Balance your assets, and plan, plan, plan. If you are not five steps ahead on what you need or want to do then you are three steps back too far, and this game will devour you.
Man I am glad you are not a game dev...
First: Skinweave, Dragonfly or MAG suits are irrelevant for the question, as is AUR. There are people who won't ever have any of those (that is a fact). So testing how far you can come without is entirely valid.
Second: You wold not have given the player an option to play when they are out of ISK? As a game developer, this would be one of the stupidest things you could do to your game. You want people to play it and people won't if they can't keep their characters no matter what. Yes, there are people who enjoy Ironman mode or similar, but this is not the target audience for the game. That is not even the target audience for a game that has an Ironman mode.
Finally: This thread is about the cost of militia items and if you can stay positive with the ISK rewards you get. Aeon Amadi's concern is a valid one. Although I personally don't agree entirely (as you probably can see above this quote). If you want to run a specific fit (example Scout with a Shotgun or anything with a drop uplink), you might run out of ISK and then you will not be able to play that specific fit anymore. This might frustrate players. But you can still play the starter fits or a very cheap modification of one (like my example above: an assault with a shotgun, which is quite similar to the intended scout with a shotgun...drop uplink is still not possible, due to the high CPU need).
One more thing: can you please at least try to argue with arguments instead of resorting to name calling? I know we are on the internet, but still.. |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 21:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rebel3010 wrote:Mira Adari wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Mira Adari wrote:You can easily recreate the starter fits. Just select the Assault - XXX suit when creating a new fit, instant starter fit.
Also: Dragonfly suit + Tox SMG are a valid fit. You should be able to earn a few ISK with that. Not enough to cover my losses it seems As long as you use Dragonfly + Tox alone, or starter fits, you are losing nothing, or am I missing something? And a militia fit is what? 5000 ISK or less for a complete fit? You earn that much for joining a match 10sec from the end and not do anything... My Assault fit uses 50 of: Militia Sheld Regen Militia Shield Boost Militia Assault Rifle Militia Sub Machine Gun Militia Locus Grenade Militia Nanohive Militia Armor Regen lost 3 one game. cost to restock: over half the ISK reward I can make that exact suit from an Assault - Frontline starter fit by replacing the scrambler pistol with a SMG, adding a Nano Hive and replacing the Cardiac Regulator with Armor Regen...cost per fit: 1650 ISK...you got only 12K ISK for that battle?
If you don't use the options the game gives you (not counting AUR or bonus items), don't blame the game. |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 21:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xavier Hastings wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:It's too early in the build to say that a close quarters scout isn't viable. In eve AHACs aren't viable with low skills, but once you've trained up the skills to make it work they're great. With the current game mechanics it could be that the CQ scout is something that requires shield management 4 and complex extenders, with high level smg / shotgun skills.
Or, you could be just plain bad at that role :) I would love for someone else to give input on the CQC Scout but I don't see anyone playing them to be completely honest. Of course you don't see the CQC Scout. The majority of the maps are hilly plains (oxymoron). One team on one side, one on the other, and you have hills in-between. You don't go using CQC suits when you're fighting long range maps. You do use CQC suits when you're in a building, or Close Quarters. I use CQC scouts everywhere ...the big 5 objectives map from the last build is a bit difficult, but not too difficult. |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 21:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Khortez D wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:I've now exhausted all of my suits and don't have the ISK to afford all militia gear - despite having a permanent Dragonfly suit and Toxin Submachine Gun.
After these last five suits I will be down to using the starter gear.
Anyone else having this issue?
EDIT: Deleted my starter gear to see what happens when I can't afford militia gear and have no starter suits. Beta testing like a pro xD starter gear is what's best to use when your low on ISK. if you delete em, well you just won't be able to get in when you run out though it does suck that milita gear isn't infinite anymore. but it makes sense, they need some kind of income right? mostly the only way you can get by is being selective in how you spend ISK You can always recreate the starter fits. I also deleted tham. I don't need to have them in my list. When I need them again, I can just create a new one. |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 11:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Khortez D wrote:Mira Adari wrote:Khortez D wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:I've now exhausted all of my suits and don't have the ISK to afford all militia gear - despite having a permanent Dragonfly suit and Toxin Submachine Gun.
After these last five suits I will be down to using the starter gear.
Anyone else having this issue?
EDIT: Deleted my starter gear to see what happens when I can't afford militia gear and have no starter suits. Beta testing like a pro xD starter gear is what's best to use when your low on ISK. if you delete em, well you just won't be able to get in when you run out though it does suck that milita gear isn't infinite anymore. but it makes sense, they need some kind of income right? mostly the only way you can get by is being selective in how you spend ISK You can always recreate the starter fits. I also deleted tham. I don't need to have them in my list. When I need them again, I can just create a new one. i know you can, he just wanted to find out what happens after deleting em, and i'm just saying after that, all you have is exhaustible stuff. and when they exhaust, thats it As I said, you can simply recreate them. There is no situation ever, when you are unable to continue to play with the current character due to missing ISK or gear. |
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