DUST Search - What's up with the Strafing QQ?

Roy Ventus wrote:

STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote:

Tony Calif wrote:

People complains about bunny hopping can't shoot for toffee.

Hey Tony, good game the other night. You had me a few times, good flank moves.

Back to topic, Tony I kinda want to know a few things about the players that want to keep the lower strafe speed.

1. Are you a PC player or Console player ( could add a dimension of background knowledge)
2. What role do you play ( Is it snipers that don't like the strafe, scouts, assault players)
3. How much experience do you have playing FPS games, years, months.
4. What former games did you play?

Just out of curiosity, I have some educated guesses at this already, but it would be helpful to know all of this.

I personally don't care too much, I just questioned all the QQ in my OP. Anyways I'll still answer this for you, if it's okay:

1. Console Player
2. In past build I ranged from Assault to Scout. I played as both as sniper scout and a frontline scout with shotguns/smg and maybe a droplink.
3. I have been playing FPS games since about...7th grade? I've been playing competitive FPSes since 10th grade.
4. I usually played MGO (Idk if you're really being specific about the "First Person" part but thats how you shoot) but when they became available I played MAG, Section 8, and I was a part of the Starhawk beta's later-phase.

I'm currently using an assault-sniper and frontline. With the frontline I barely notice strafing difference, the way I play is to sneak up on someone or use cover, until you guys started talking about it. And even then I came across a guy who was just fast as kitten with his strafing speed. He was an assault, probably frontline build, and was some how able to evade my bullets easily.

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Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2012.10.03 14:29:00 - [1] - Quote Do you guys really need to QQ all of the time about the strafing speed? I mean seriously? I'm playing as frontline assault or a sniper most of the time and the game feels smoother. And none of my stats are really focused in speed, but rather sensory and stealth. I don't want to be able to run around like I have been in the last build and others agree with me. I mean sure it's your opinion and taste but for kitten sakes, stop acting like it's doomsday. It's simply the speed you move around while shooting. Hell, real life soldiers don't run and move around extremely fast while shooting at people. In MGO, Metal Gear Online, which was realistic in multiple ways, you could only strafe slowly while aiming. And even then I've been getting out strafe now. Am I QQ about it? No. Why? Because I could've defeated those who out-strafe me through other tactics that I didn't feel like using. Now. No where in this post have you seen me QQ and raging and spitting on the game like many of these immature posters have. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Know the difference between constructive criticism and plain old criticism. You might have a legitimate reason but with all of the kitten emotions, we can't tell if you're just being emotionally bias, or what. Also, don't forget to actually give a reason why this issue or that issue sucks. Can't just say "Dust's mechanics suck." And expect anybody to take you seriously, especially CCP. They nor anyone can fix what you wish to be fix without specifics.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.10.03 15:41:00 - [2] - Quote At work, don't have time to explain it all, but I wrote this yesterday and it should explain some it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=38832
RolyatDerTeufel D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 1648	Posted - 2012.10.03 15:44:00 - [3] - Quote My stats are normally focused for speed, yet speed is only one direction with sprinting, and I feel strongly to say the scout gets shot first, it's dead first, no matter what the other person has. They have to run one direction and if they turn a corner you can't get back to cover. Scout suits can't tank any where near as well as them and getting gank is easier then trying to tank SP wise.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.10.03 15:50:00 - [4] - Quote Well when you remove a suit's ability to speed tank (ie high radial velocity) it can cause issues. Especially since the Scout suit's main defense is speed tanking due to its low HP (This is in contrast to the slow moving Heavy with its high HP). A small reduction was in order, but they took it too far and now scouts are really not all that viable for combat roles other than sniping.
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2012.10.03 15:51:00 - [5] - Quote nobody is asking to sprint laterally. People are asking for an increase in the base lateral movement speed. To make gunfights actually take skill.
GarryKE Omnispace Trading Company 60	Posted - 2012.10.03 15:54:00 - [6] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: To make gunfights actually take skill. Skill as in walk around the enemy, waste a whole magazine, reload while jumping around like a rabbit on pills and refresh?
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.10.03 15:56:00 - [7] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: nobody is asking to sprint laterally. People are asking for an increase in the base lateral movement speed. To make gunfights actually take skill. The strafing is still there, but it has been reduced by 40-50% of what it was, which I can admit was a little high to start with. CCP needs to increase it by 10-15% to lateral movement speed. Its not a lot, but its enough to add skill back into fighting again. As it is now, Gear will replace skill when we all get better weapons and suits. FPS games rely on skill, MMO's on Gear/Weapons. But a good FPSMMO has to have both.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.10.03 15:58:00 - [8] - Quote GarryKE wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: To make gunfights actually take skill. Skill as in walk around the enemy, waste a whole magazine, reload while jumping around like a rabbit on pills and refresh? Players are not really asking to go back to bunny hopping, but they are asking for a bit more lateral speed to add a dimension of skill back into the fire fights. As it is now, its who has better cover, how big your blob of players are. Thats not skill fighting.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.10.03 15:59:00 - [9] - Quote STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote: GarryKE wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: To make gunfights actually take skill. Skill as in walk around the enemy, waste a whole magazine, reload while jumping around like a rabbit on pills and refresh? Players are not really asking to go back to bunny hopping, but they are asking for a bit more lateral speed to add a dimension of skill back into the fire fights. As it is now, its who has better cover, how big your blob of players are. Thats not skill fighting. I love when people bunny hop, it makes their movement predictable.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.03 16:14:00 - [10] - Quote People complains about bunny hopping can't shoot for toffee.

STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.10.03 16:19:00 - [11] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote: GarryKE wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: To make gunfights actually take skill. Skill as in walk around the enemy, waste a whole magazine, reload while jumping around like a rabbit on pills and refresh? Players are not really asking to go back to bunny hopping, but they are asking for a bit more lateral speed to add a dimension of skill back into the fire fights. As it is now, its who has better cover, how big your blob of players are. Thats not skill fighting. I love when people bunny hop, it makes their movement predictable. 100% true, bunny hoppers are easy to hit. They jump a predictable distance each time, when you see someone jump you know where they are going to land.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.10.03 16:22:00 - [12] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: People complains about bunny hopping can't shoot for toffee. Hey Tony, good game the other night. You had me a few times, good flank moves. Back to topic, Tony I kinda want to know a few things about the players that want to keep the lower strafe speed. 1. Are you a PC player or Console player ( could add a dimension of background knowledge) 2. What role do you play ( Is it snipers that don't like the strafe, scouts, assault players) 3. How much experience do you have playing FPS games, years, months. 4. What former games did you play? Just out of curiosity, I have some educated guesses at this already, but it would be helpful to know all of this.
Mosley Harmless Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2012.10.03 16:28:00 - [13] - Quote People aren't just saying "Dust's mechanics suck." They're saying "Dust's mechanics suck because it's too slow." Which is like you said, a personal opinion and as long as people have an opinion, they're gonna share it in any way possible. I just wish I could run faster when I'm not shooting.
Lonewolf514 79	Posted - 2012.10.03 16:32:00 - [14] - Quote Mosley Harmless wrote: People aren't just saying "Dust's mechanics suck." They're saying "Dust's mechanics suck because it's too slow." Which is like you said, a personal opinion and as long as people have an opinion, they're gonna share it in any way possible. I just wish I could run faster when I'm not shooting. and if people don't like what they see they go find something else to play. from what i can see CCP are aiming at a very small but tightly knit playerbase.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.03 16:43:00 - [15] - Quote Who mostly play EvE @Deadpool I'll drop into your other thread this evening.
Lonewolf514 79	Posted - 2012.10.03 16:45:00 - [16] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Who mostly play EvE ah that big circle jerk called EvE
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.10.03 17:13:00 - [17] - Quote I like the speed, but I think a tiered system of lateral movement would be better, where scouts move side to side much faster than others. And overall a 10-15% strafe speed increase would be in order.
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 421	Posted - 2012.10.03 17:30:00 - [18] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: I like the speed, but I think a tiered system of lateral movement would be better, where scouts move side to side much faster than others. And overall a 10-15% strafe speed increase would be in order. YES! I personally dont think it needed any nerf. As long as the frame rate and hit detection were fixed, there was no need for a movement nerf. I really hope they will come back and readjust the movement nerf to some mid points between the previous and the current build.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.10.03 17:32:00 - [19] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: I like the speed, but I think a tiered system of lateral movement would be better, where scouts move side to side much faster than others. And overall a 10-15% strafe speed increase would be in order. I think the major consensus is about the same on this fix. Tier the suits of not only running speed, but lateral speed as well. Scout suit should have the most lateral and running speed, but have the least armor/shields. Assault should be 75% of the scout speeds. But obviously have better shields and armor. Heavy suits should have 50% of the scouts speed or less on lateral movement and turning speed, but has the most shields/armor. Give pro's and con's to each suit, make viable options for players at this basic of level. From there, you should be able to add modules to give either lateral speed increments, like 2-5% with each module, nothing outrageous but enough to make it worth while.
Villanor Aquarius Shattered Ascension 79	Posted - 2012.10.03 17:33:00 - [20] - Quote Simple solution give the scout suit a bonus per level of gallente scout suit operation that increases strafe speed by a bit. Done. Scouts are meant to be mobile on the battlefield not viable close quarters brawlers. The only time a scout should do well in close combat is using their tiny sig radius to get in close then spring and shotgun someone. Using cover effectively, moving about the field intelligently and engaging targets you are likely to win against all require skill. Sprinting side to side when you get engaged requires less skill. With a cover based approach you need to be aware of where cover is, what cover you can make it to if a fight breaks out and from what approaches that cover is good. This requires you to think, to maintain good positioning and you take a risk when there isn't cover. This style is more rewarding and satisfying for many players, myself included.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.10.03 17:33:00 - [21] - Quote Actually eve players are making the argument of frigate vs battleships. How the lightweight battleship can fly underneath the guns of the battleship. The problem with this argument is that there is nothing stopping the battleship from slapping on anti-frigate guns.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:29:00 - [22] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Actually eve players are making the argument of frigate vs battleships. How the lightweight battleship can fly underneath the guns of the battleship. The problem with this argument is that there is nothing stopping the battleship from slapping on anti-frigate guns. This does translate well though I think, in that weapons themselves in Dust should have tiered tracking speeds, small sidearms like SMGs and Pistols allow you to rotate very quickly, where Assault rifles are a bit slower, and HMGs are the slowest. In that aspect, a heavy could slap on an anti-scout SMG and be able to track is quickly enough to deal with the strafing.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:52:00 - [23] - Quote STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote: Tony Calif wrote: People complains about bunny hopping can't shoot for toffee. Hey Tony, good game the other night. You had me a few times, good flank moves. Back to topic, Tony I kinda want to know a few things about the players that want to keep the lower strafe speed. 1. Are you a PC player or Console player ( could add a dimension of background knowledge) 2. What role do you play ( Is it snipers that don't like the strafe, scouts, assault players) 3. How much experience do you have playing FPS games, years, months. 4. What former games did you play? Just out of curiosity, I have some educated guesses at this already, but it would be helpful to know all of this. I personally don't care too much, I just questioned all the QQ in my OP. Anyways I'll still answer this for you, if it's okay: 1. Console Player 2. In past build I ranged from Assault to Scout. I played as both as sniper scout and a frontline scout with shotguns/smg and maybe a droplink. 3. I have been playing FPS games since about...7th grade? I've been playing competitive FPSes since 10th grade. 4. I usually played MGO (Idk if you're really being specific about the "First Person" part but thats how you shoot) but when they became available I played MAG, Section 8, and I was a part of the Starhawk beta's later-phase. I'm currently using an assault-sniper and frontline. With the frontline I barely notice strafing difference, the way I play is to sneak up on someone or use cover, until you guys started talking about it. And even then I came across a guy who was just fast as kitten with his strafing speed. He was an assault, probably frontline build, and was some how able to evade my bullets easily.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:56:00 - [24] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote: Tony Calif wrote: People complains about bunny hopping can't shoot for toffee. Hey Tony, good game the other night. You had me a few times, good flank moves. Back to topic, Tony I kinda want to know a few things about the players that want to keep the lower strafe speed. 1. Are you a PC player or Console player ( could add a dimension of background knowledge) 2. What role do you play ( Is it snipers that don't like the strafe, scouts, assault players) 3. How much experience do you have playing FPS games, years, months. 4. What former games did you play? Just out of curiosity, I have some educated guesses at this already, but it would be helpful to know all of this. I personally don't care too much, I just questioned all the QQ in my OP. Anyways I'll still answer this for you, if it's okay: 1. Console Player 2. In past build I ranged from Assault to Scout. I played as both as sniper scout and a frontline scout with shotguns/smg and maybe a droplink. 3. I have been playing FPS games since about...7th grade? I've been playing competitive FPSes since 10th grade. 4. I usually played MGO (Idk if you're really being specific about the "First Person" part but thats how you shoot) but when they became available I played MAG, Section 8, and I was a part of the Starhawk beta's later-phase. I'm currently using an assault-sniper and frontline. With the frontline I barely notice strafing difference, the way I play is to sneak up on someone or use cover, until you guys started talking about it. And even then I came across a guy who was just fast as kitten with his strafing speed. He was an assault, probably frontline build, and was some how able to evade my bullets easily. Thanks, almost exactly as I guessed. What is your thoughts on strafing, you like the way it is now, or prior build?
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.10.03 20:03:00 - [25] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: nobody is asking to sprint laterally. People are asking for an increase in the base lateral movement speed. To make gunfights actually take skill. This guy has got it right imo. In this build with so many open spaces who ever starts shooting first or has the better gun will kill the other. Honestly last builds strafing speed shouldn't be a problem now with improved hit detection, even scouts will be easily kills if they jump out in front of you and CCP increases turning speed. At this moment strafing speed wouldn't give you an unfair advantage it will mainly help the gameplay feel better and more fluid.
Lonewolf514 79	Posted - 2012.10.03 20:06:00 - [26] - Quote they only reduced the strafing speed to try and half arse balance the scout suit. shows how much interest they have in making a good balanced game.
Catherine Cosmos Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.10.03 20:13:00 - [27] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: [quote=xprotoman23] In this build with so many open spaces who ever starts shooting first or has the better gun will kill the other. Isn't that how it normally works?
JoshuaEvil666 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 33	Posted - 2012.10.03 20:15:00 - [28] - Quote i seem to strafe the same as the last build but i play with my settings on max but so far i haveonly payed assault suits
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.10.03 20:15:00 - [29] - Quote Lonewolf514 wrote: they only reduced the strafing speed to try and half arse balance the scout suit. shows how much interest they have in making a good balanced game. Right, along with the 10,000 other things they need to work on and tweak, doing a quick fix for one of them clearly shows they don't give a **** and have no interest in making the game good. Regardless, I rather liked the suggestion of giving scouts a +% to strafe speed per level of Gallente Scout Suit they train. That would be an acceptable solution for me if base speed is kept as is.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.10.03 20:19:00 - [30] - Quote Catherine Cosmos wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: [quote=xprotoman23] In this build with so many open spaces who ever starts shooting first or has the better gun will kill the other. Isn't that how it normally works? with more mobility you have more options at least last build you weren't as constrained because you can get to cover faster, know if your caught out in the open the red dots will simply gun you down while you waddle around like an idiot.



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