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Billi Gene
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
130
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Posted - 2012.10.03 13:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
My Suggested Fix (feel free to comment below, or to make your own suggestions) :
Do not change any of the current mechanics surrounding WP gain or OB/PS, unless such changes are seen as needed due to factors outside of the situation created by players 'farming SP' from remote repping of vehicles outside of the combat zone.
instead,
create a PS3 side (as opposed to server side) loop, that monitors successful hits upon enemies by a merc, their vehicle or the merc or vehicle they are remote repping, the uninterrupted duration of the loop is 5 minutes. This loop resets every time a hit is scored upon an enemy merc, structure or vehicle, but creates an encrypted data log on the PS3 which in turn resets/wipes after two weeks.
When the loop hits 5 minutes, the merc gets booted from the match, all accrued SP, WP and ISK gained from the match are lost, and the player loses their fitting and current vehicle. In all probability all they will lose is their remote repper, if that is all they were doing, but this system will also boot inactive mercs be that because they are 'AFK' for too long or because they were busy crashing a jeep or dropship.
Players that often afk will show no gains for matches they are booted from, players that are remote repper farming and get booted will be easy to spot. It would still be possible to bypass this system, but only by entering active combat with an enemy, of which both the remote repper and the vehicle pilot would both have to register hits upon an enemy merc, structure or vehicle, at least once WITHIN every 5 minute period of non-combat, starting with the last recorded hit against an enemy.
The data file created to record when a player hits the 5 minute 'inactive' limit should last longer then a single SP Cap period, so as to allow for monitoring of weekly 'Farming' sessions. The data file will automatically upload to the server at the nearest possible time after its collection period, and if it has actually recorded 'inactive' behavior only.
Given that the loop will only monitor for one parameter, reseting after each hit registered against an enemy merc, structure or vehicle and will only record (to the HDD) when a player gets booted from a match, along with their SP,WP and ISK gains for that match, the whole process should have a negligible impact on system performance. Uploads to CCP will only occur at the minimum of two week intervals, and at the nearest time after such a period, to allow for players disconnecting their PS3 from the Internet.
Such a routine will allow for reprimands or harsher punishments based upon solid evidence. Tampering with a PS3 to allow a player to bypass the loop should be viewed as a direct violation of both the EULA for DUST and Sony's own protection agreement for their PS3, at which point player reports of someone remote repper farming should be enough to start server side monitoring, and presumably severe punishment or reprimand.
Obvious disadvantage:
getting booted from an Ambush Match of which no enemy Mercs joined due to off peak population.
Perhaps this would get down to a tighter regimen for the Match Making system.
the 5 minute timer on the loop may be too short... which would be grievous, as a 10 minute loop would provide ample time to circumvent the system. suggestions? |
Billi Gene
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 13:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mira Adari wrote:First: 5 min are too much, given the length of the average Ambush match.
Second: What about logis who play legitimately and heal/revive comrades for an extended time period?
No, the solution to the problem is not to punish anyone, but to incite teamplay and make winning a match matter, i.e. SP bonus for the winning team with reduced SP gain from individual player actions. The way to maximize your personal gain should always be to play the game as intended. That way anyone will play to reach the same goal, those who play for the team and also those who play for their personal growth.
the time limit was a hard choice, and i in no way stand by it, too long and its easy to circumvent, too short and the system is broken.
my suggested idea (i play logi) is that the loop takes into account anyone you are repping, so as long as you rep someone during a fire fight, you are safe... IF you insist on not firing a shot yourself.
not to be defensive, but only to answer... this does not punish anyone but farmers. AFK'ers gain no SP/ISK from being afk and so lose nothing getting booted, the fact that they earned nothing during the period that got them booted shows on the record.
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Billi Gene
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 14:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Like that you are trying to come up with a solution but this doesn't seem to be it. Too many legitimate play styles to account for that this would inadvertently affect.
mostly i just sat down and quietly considered the elements to the problem.
WP and SP are incidental to the problem, they are the goal of the farmers for sure, but as a mechanic they have nothing to do with this particular exploit (apart from being the benefit of it).
Punishing logi by removing SP from repping anything other then enemy damage is not the best option. In fact, punishing reppers or pilots by forcing them into behavior other then what their roles are suited (inorder to gain SP/WP/ISK) is unfair.
Allowing Team Kills still requires a framework with which to reference for friendly fire being turned on... so what would that framework look like?
I don't standby my idea, other then as some sort of frame work. What are we as a player community prepared to see happen in order to force people to play the game instead of playing the system?
If it were known that there was an afk timer, people could adjust. Even the farmers would adjust, and my framework doesnt even really stop them from farming, it just stops them from being able to repper farm to the exclusion of all other activities, opening them up to combat and the possibility of losing assets.
Adjust the parameters, make a suggestion... anything.. just get the ball rolling before CCP decides to lower the SP cap even more (sort of thing)... |
Billi Gene
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 03:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
there is a problem with non-gains in red zone and enemy fire only systems..... it either limits or disadvantages play options and punishes players that under certain conditions have no alternatives.
Enemy Fire only systems do not take into account friendly fire in Nullsec(AFAIK), nor a friendly tank battering through a landed dropship or LAV. Repairing damage should never be penalized-unless it is all you are doing behind the redline.
Red Zone systems as nil earners also disadvantages players, of either certain playstyle or by situation. Exploits like MCC sniping aside, teams may get pushed back into their safe zone, pilots may park there to legitimately repair their vehicles before redeploying. By taking away the ability to gain SP/WP in the red zone, you are effectively creating a zerg game where combat is secondary to forcing a win by default.
And similarly to redzone as nil earner, proximity to enemies is also a limiting system. In this case it blatantly disadvantages snipers. When or if maps reach the 5km scale, snipes will start to come into their own, providing covering fire for ground advances, large area recon, area denial and clearing other snipers. AFAIK, and i have yet to log in today to test it....we can once again choose match type, so there should not really be any snipers on ambush maps.
aside from that .. how much ram would it take to loop a single parameter timer? Single parameter being, scored a hit on an enemy, either for your merc or a friendly you are repping.
The main difficulty would be finding the sweet spot for the cycle timer, when no hit has been scored.
but then that is only one way of dealing with this... open your mind... look at the behavior and how to limit it, the ideal is to create a system that does little to limit legitimate play styles and play. |
Billi Gene
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 04:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:There are a few threads related to this subject but I don't believe I've mentioned this here (forgive me if I am in error).
What about the concept of simply decreasing impact/crash damage across the board?
Are there any unintended negative consequences that spring to anyones mind?
I know it would make dropships and LAVs a bit more durable but 'on first blush' that doesn't seem like a major issue, and if it were harder to damage vehicles in the first place (via crash damage/ i.e. safe damage) then the fundamental value of farming would also decrease across the board.
Thoughts, improvements, suggestions?
seems like an elegant deterrent to me.
Aighun wrote:Take away the red zone.
Also, have different kinds of point rewards. Skill points. War points. Repair points. Peace points. All with diminishing returns. Only War points should add up to allow for orbital strike.
Repairing crashed vehicle should not get you a ton of war points. But repairing shot at vehicles should accrue war points.
After you have crashed an LAV into a building or repaired a crashed LAV for the 4th time you probably know all you need to know about that particular activity and gotten what you can from the exercise.
when CCP announced Diminishing Returns to deter the repper farmers, this is exactly what i thought they were gonna do. With each category of point gain having its own DR, thereby forcing people to become more adaptive... instead they brought in a weekly SP Cap, and the farmers are just farming WP for the leaderboards  |
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