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Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.02 21:07:00 - [1] - Quote Okay - saying that strafe speed was nerfed was one thing but I'm starting to notice some very negative aspects of this. First, I'm not entirely sure if Mass affects strafe speed as it's remarkably slow as is. It's not clear (at least to me) whether or not armor plates even affect the speed at which one can strafe. Second, there are no ways to change the speed in our favor such as Kinetic Catalyzers affecting it in some way, shape or form. Strafing was pretty much the only defense Scout suits had going for it and to quote David Reid (CCP Pokethulu) "If a scout suit gets close to a Heavy suit, he's going to be in trouble". This isn't the case anymore. Third, I'm almost certain that strafe speeds were not nerfed -dynamically- and all suits strafe at the same speed. There doesn't seem to be any disparity between strafing as a scout and/or strafing as a heavy. Fixing hit detection was great. It needed to be done. However, much like the AV Hotfix - I'm starting to think that CCP was a bit heavy handed on the poor scout suit when they applied these changes. EDIT: When I say they were heavy handed on the AV Hotfix - all that needed to be done was either buff the AV -OR- reduce the effectiveness of Shield Resistances. Doing both killed off Tanks in their entirety. Starting to get the impression that they want everyone to play Logistics/Assault with all of these changes affecting Scouts/Heavies. Edit: For the record - before anyone starts throwing accusations of incompetence at me - here's the timeline of the suits that I've specialized in for each build. Between all of those I've had a Scout suit of some degree as I occasionally enjoy the more "special forces" style of play. However, I have never chosen it as a baseline specialization until this build. July: Assault Frontline Fighter August: Logistics Triage September: Heavy AV
Khortez D Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.02 21:08:00 - [2] - Quote let it dieeee, CCP will do the rest
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.02 21:10:00 - [3] - Quote Khortez D wrote: let it dieeee, CCP will do the rest Troll less - beta test more.
Khortez D Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.02 21:11:00 - [4] - Quote how am i trolling? im dead serious this subject about strafing has been on and on all last night, it just started to fade
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.02 21:14:00 - [5] - Quote i wont let that straffing deal fade. it pretty much killed the game for me and a lot of folks i know.
Khortez D Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.02 21:16:00 - [6] - Quote if you guys want to go ahead, but im just saying, its been expressed in 10 different ways. CCP would know about now
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.02 21:19:00 - [7] - Quote Khortez D wrote: if you guys want to go ahead, but im just saying, its been expressed in 10 different ways. CCP would know about now All I did was ask for more information. Apply something beneficial/discuss the matter of the topic - or back out of the thread. Easy.
Khortez D Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.02 21:21:00 - [8] - Quote i didnt say much either, but as i said go for it. i already stated at least 5-6 different threads on information at least, of why strafing should suffice
843 pano 843 Boot Camp 200	Posted - 2012.10.02 21:32:00 - [9] - Quote For me, strafing still works pretty good for the scout, you just have to do it differently. Last night I was able to use my scout and strafe effectively while taking out two guys right in a row. I felt like Neo, dodging their spray and then getting them with my SMG. It takes a different tactic, but still can be done. Or... they where just bad shots... But, it felt just like last build, only a little different due to changes in the strafing technique. I have to agree though, you can no longer just do a little side shuffle and come out unscathed, those days are over, which is good.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.03 03:42:00 - [10] - Quote 843 pano wrote: For me, strafing still works pretty good for the scout, you just have to do it differently. Last night I was able to use my scout and strafe effectively while taking out two guys right in a row. I felt like Neo, dodging their spray and then getting them with my SMG. It takes a different tactic, but still can be done. Or... they where just bad shots... But, it felt just like last build, only a little different due to changes in the strafing technique. I have to agree though, you can no longer just do a little side shuffle and come out unscathed, those days are over, which is good. You apparently haven't gone up against someone with good aim. Find someone who's even half decent with their aim and you'll never make it within fifty yards of them.

Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.10.03 03:43:00 - [11] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=38990&find=unread What are your thoughts on this?
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:03:00 - [12] - Quote Bringing this back up to the front with an expansion of my initial argument: As I've stated to a few people (on multiple formats) the pressing issue with Close Quarters combat as it stands are three aspects. 1.) Hit detection system has been drastically improved. This is good. 2.) Bullets now slow you down when you're hit. This is... iffy. Sort of a double edged sword. 3.) Strafe Speed reduction doesn't seem dynamic to the dropsuit - scouts seem to strafe as fast a heavies. This has critically impacted their playability as close quarters combatants and they simply do not exist anymore. I would -love- a response from CCP but if someone could go out and test these theories it would be nice, I currently feel alone in it! xD I have the impression that this build took a hatchet to the Close Quarters combatants and think they need to be brought back up somehow.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:09:00 - [13] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Bringing this back up to the front with an expansion of my initial argument: As I've stated to a few people (on multiple formats) the pressing issue with Close Quarters combat as it stands are three aspects. 1.) Hit detection system has been drastically improved. This is good. 2.) Bullets now slow you down when you're hit. This is... iffy. Sort of a double edged sword. 3.) Strafe Speed reduction doesn't seem dynamic to the dropsuit - scouts seem to strafe as fast a heavies. This has critically impacted their playability as close quarters combatants and they simply do not exist anymore. I would -love- a response from CCP but if someone could go out and test these theories it would be nice, I currently feel alone in it! xD I have the impression that this build took a hatchet to the Close Quarters combatants and think they need to be brought back up somehow. Good thread and post. Waiting on CCP to reply to any of this.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:32:00 - [14] - Quote STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote: Good thread and post. Waiting on CCP to reply to any of this. Thanks for the support ^_^
Nicol Bolas Planeswalker Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 102	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:34:00 - [15] - Quote This needs to be fixed. Scouts are now almost completely useless in CQB. Speed is no longer a worthwhile trade off for reduction of armour and shields.
Eco Esper Algintal Core Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:42:00 - [16] - Quote I'd love to test this, heavy/logi/assault/scout from a supply depot... If I could only get past the timeout message
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:43:00 - [17] - Quote Nicol Bolas Planeswalker wrote: This needs to be fixed. Scouts are now almost completely useless in CQB. Speed is no longer a worthwhile trade off for reduction of armour and shields. Agree'd. A lot of the community are saying that they aren't supposed to be able to do CQB and should be entirely based on stealth/sniping - but I think this is a very close minded ideal and directly detracts from being able to fight how you want to in this game. Standardizing everything to the Assault Suit is becoming the death of Scouts/Heavies. Heavies are just now starting to get good again but now the Scout is under fire. Can't -WAIT- to see how they nerf Pilots/Crusaders.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:45:00 - [18] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Nicol Bolas Planeswalker wrote: This needs to be fixed. Scouts are now almost completely useless in CQB. Speed is no longer a worthwhile trade off for reduction of armour and shields. Agree'd. A lot of the community are saying that they aren't supposed to be able to do CQB and should be entirely based on stealth/sniping - but I think this is a very close minded ideal and directly detracts from being able to fight how you want to in this game. Standardizing everything to the Assault Suit is becoming the death of Scouts/Heavies. Heavies are just now starting to get good again but now the Scout is under fire. Can't -WAIT- to see how they nerf Pilots/Crusaders. i think heavies will rock this build infantry wise. I'm even considering starting a new char to test that theory ^^
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:47:00 - [19] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Nicol Bolas Planeswalker wrote: This needs to be fixed. Scouts are now almost completely useless in CQB. Speed is no longer a worthwhile trade off for reduction of armour and shields. Agree'd. A lot of the community are saying that they aren't supposed to be able to do CQB and should be entirely based on stealth/sniping - but I think this is a very close minded ideal and directly detracts from being able to fight how you want to in this game. Standardizing everything to the Assault Suit is becoming the death of Scouts/Heavies. Heavies are just now starting to get good again but now the Scout is under fire. Can't -WAIT- to see how they nerf Pilots/Crusaders. i think heavies will rock this build infantry wise. I'm even considering starting a new char to test that theory ^^ Go HMG and you'll rock - they're awesome now lol. Double the fire-rate, double the magazine capacity and 100% better hit detection =P
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.03 21:58:00 - [20] - Quote I have been playing as a speed-fitted close-quarters scout... and to be honest, it works pretty well this build... If I am sneaky enough to get to point blank range with someone, there is very little they can do with my running circles around them - they just don't have the tracking speed! And, this build i seem to actually be hitting what I point my shotgun at...last build it often seemed to miss, despite the cross hair being on them dead center at the instant I pulled the trigger (is that what this hit detection malarkey is about?). That said I have noticed the lack of strafe speed. I was up against a Duvolle AR, he killed me time and time again before I could get to within effective range... I instinctively gave up the strafing, and instead found myself going for the full-on zig-zag sprint at them, like a sailboat tacking back and forth into wind. It helped a little. In short: Yes, you will get killed if you try to close distance on an AR that is facing you, no matter how much zig-zagging you do. But, if you are sneaky enough, flank them, and manage to close that distance, you are pretty much guaranteed the kill. Just need to pick your battles wisely, and if they have spotted you earlier than you were hoping, use your speed to get outta there! The CQ Scout isn't nerfed into uselessness this build, it can still be very effective... But I agree that strafing should be a little quicker! It certainly should be dynamic, as you put it. Nice threads Aeon, great feedback

Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.03 22:22:00 - [21] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: i wont let that straffing deal fade. it pretty much killed the game for me and a lot of folks i know. Agreed
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.10.04 00:33:00 - [22] - Quote Dust 514 is fuc ked, it's going to get even more ******** as time goes on.
Failonius Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.10.04 00:40:00 - [23] - Quote As far as I know strafing is not running. But anyway... Logically, lighter armor should strafe a little faster than heavy armor.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.04 00:49:00 - [24] - Quote @Kade No. They can quite easily put the strafing back to precursor standards, dial in a bit more recoil again (just a touch, going overboard would be disaster for AR's), and make lasers do a little more damage, a little quicker. I also think being able to spawn on objectives added to the frantic nature of the combat. Not sure, but stealth capturing letters is a bit easy... Guess it's the opponents fault for not leaving some kind of defense.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.10.04 02:33:00 - [25] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: @Kade No. They can quite easily put the strafing back to precursor standards, dial in a bit more recoil again (just a touch, going overboard would be disaster for AR's), and make lasers do a little more damage, a little quicker. I also think being able to spawn on objectives added to the frantic nature of the combat. Not sure, but stealth capturing letters is a bit easy... Guess it's the opponents fault for not leaving some kind of defense. strafing has done nothing, but decreese over the last 4 builds. I doubt they'll increase it at this point.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.04 02:47:00 - [26] - Quote Look around the forums. There is more hate here than there was when tanks got nerfed. But there's no happy gloating side provoking anyone. CCP must change things back to precursor speeds.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.04 05:24:00 - [27] - Quote Glad to see this picked up while I was at work. Also glad to see there's a well rounded consensus that this was a very negative change to the game =P


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