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Alhanna Ridgeway
123
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Posted - 2012.09.26 00:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Last I checked this game was supposed to be a shooter, with Assault guys, Snipers, Logis, and heavies. With different types of vehicles on the battlefield, and actually look like a war is going on. It seems to me though that the majority of the community feels it should just be Assault Rifles and nothing else. No snipers, no Logis, nothing just a bunch of bunny hopping butt ******* fags running around with assault rifles, with no real skill, spraying a wall of bullets at everyone. That game is already out btw, it's called COD, or BF3, or MOH, or almost any other generic quick fix shooter made thus far. Personally, I don't think assault guys have a whole lot of skill, you hold the trigger down for 15 seconds, keep spraying until you kill the other guy, or he kills you. And in most games your accuracy is about 10%. Now accuracy is a part of shooting last I checked. So if your accuracy is crap, that kinda makes you crap to yes? And don't start with that gun game bullshit. That's a term people came up with to try and make it sound like they had found some special skill in a video game. At it's base you're still just aiming and pulling a button.
As for the boosting, me and my friends have been talking about it for 2 days. There's only 2 ways to fix it and make it fair to the Logi guys that actually play the class legitly.
1. Passive SP- Up the passive SP gain for everyone by about 4x. That way we're getting SP at a faster rate. And you aren't screwing anyone over.
2. Both sides get the same SP every round. Ex. Each member of each team gets say 20k SP after each round.
Now I hear the problems with this already. Waaahhh I won I should get more, or get something cause my team did better...Well you did, you got the W, while the other team took a loss, grow up and move on and quit whining. Why does everyone need to be rewarded for doing what they are supposed to do?
Any other solution completely fucks Logis, unless you do it to everyone involved.
EX. Cut the SP gain by performing the same action, such as repping. Ok but then you got to cut SP gain for kills, captures, revives, spawns, and nanohive resupplies.
Want to make it so you can't heal friendly inflicted damage, what about the guy who accidentally hit a building while he was flying around or trying to outmaneuver a forge gunner? He shouldn't be able to rep that?
My friend had the idea of making so you could only be remote repaired once and then you couldn't be again for say 20 seconds. Then Im just gonna focus fire you while no one else can rep you, and that completely negates spider tanking later, which is a whole new world of playing.
Want to cap SP gain in general, that's cool but those guys doing the boosting will always hit the cap so that doesn't really fix it either.
Guess you could make it so repairing doesn't give you SP, but that fucks over the single best way for a Logi to get SP, and completely negates his primary function. So if you do it to Logis, then assault and snipers don't get SP for kills, just everything else they do, since it's there primary role and the best way for them to get SP.
If you screw the class over to bad no one is gonna play Logi, which is against the whole point of the game. You know the being able to play your class, your way, and not be put into a predetermined role or loadout. Although, from the looks of it CCP should wipe out everything in the game and give us all assault suits and assault rifles, take off the stamina bar so we can all bunny hop around and spray endless amounts of ammo at each other, and then talk about how "skillful"(I prefer ********) we all are.
I say everyone else either start boosting, or get the **** over it. Take your pick, and let people play how they want to play. If you don't like how someone plays, don't play with them. Stick with your little group of elitist retards and let them stick with theirs. Simple enough.
That's how I see it, and Im well aware that probably 85% of the player base won't like what Ive said, course probably 85% of the playerbase are probably the same little whiny kids that think they should get a cookie for good behavior in real life, or that they should immediately get some type of reward for doing what they are supposed to. IE Winning the match. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
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Posted - 2012.09.26 00:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Your first mistake was assuming anyone on this forum actually reads.
Aside from that, AR guys a bit silly if you ask me, though they're plenty easy to take out if you know what you're doing. The hardest thing is when you go up against a squad or two of AR guys that actually are coordinated, then it becomes MUCH harder to take them out. I'm a shotgun user myself, just switched from scout to assault (I'm liking it a lot more, actually), so I try to sneak up behind them or flank whenever possible, it works really well for me usually.
Assault rifles will probably always be the bread and butter gun that many players gravitate towards, if only because it's so familiar. I still think AR's should have their range toned back just the littlest bit, and perhaps give them just a smidge more kickback, but overall they seem to be in a pretty descent place. |
The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.09.26 00:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alhanna, I love you.
I will say that barring the intermitten insults thrown about in this post, I do agree. I feel like this issue is far too vague and all encompassing to be able to address with the way they're going to do it. If you see people going to exploit a game mechanic like the SP farming, so what? Stop them from doing it!
This isn't quite the same as what you were pointing out, but in the last build when dropships were easier to fly and people frequented the towers in Skirmish with dropships and sniper fits, i'd take a militia drop ship up and either squash them or push the dropship off of the tower.
Do something about it in the game. Completely changing a game mechanic because of something like this seems a tad ludicrous. |
Icy Tiger
496
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Posted - 2012.09.26 00:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
You started off nice, but then I didn't like the part about the SP same for both teams. That would kill the game for me. why bother playing good, if I'm not rewarded? |
V4DOL
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:You started off nice, but then I didn't like the part about the SP same for both teams. That would kill the game for me. why bother playing good, if I'm not rewarded?
Pretty sure it was meant with a [sarcasm] tag. The game is as is, can't fix it without negative implications elsewhere (with regards to this scenario). Boosting will always find a way, so deal with it in game (FF when it comes is currently the best way I've heard), or just go on about your life and don't worry about the other guy. Real skill is the bigger help over SP. |
Cid Egdald
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
20
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
+1, but what about the Tactical AR guys! Its all about the double tap and then aim again! |
TEB0W
1
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Your first mistake was assuming anyone on this forum actually reads.
LMAO
nice |
nepher sesoch
DUST University Ivy League
9
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
I wonder if CCP had favored the EVE version of XP gain initially , meaning totally passive (I assume they would have as that is their current MO). That method however does not accomodate XP boosting as a method of microtransaction income, something that they undeniably require to make the game viable. I have seen posts from some undeniably excellent players indicating that they dominate in militia fits anyway due to skill level perhaps limiting the value of these xp gains (meaning it comes down to practice and skill not what suit you wear). I enjoy the xp I get from my matches but its removal would eliminate the need for the discussion around the various values of actions within each match. The xp gain or bonus goes to the winning side (and none to the loser) thus promoting the teamwork and necessary team roles to achieve the goal of each match. |
TEB0W
1
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
is ther a tldr version
oh were supposed to use a tactical combined with broken hit detection then guys says "hey gg bro!!" yea ok that makes sense |
Azmode Deamus
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rage much?
Let the SP farmers farm. If that's how they enjoy the game than what ever who am to say no? It's their time. Not mine.
Let the AR guys shoot and click their button. It's a video game. That's all there is to it. If you want to break down any game to its bare essence it's about clicking buttons. So be it.
Gun Game on these forums from what I've seen refers to the way uns and combat feels. Not about skill.
Logistic suits need better equipment to do their job. Like some type of device that can revive from a distance. No need to go logistic suit when you can wear a scou suit and support your team as much.
By the way I'm a shotgun/sniper scout and do not farm SP. |
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Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:Last I checked this game was supposed to be a shooter, with Assault guys, Snipers, Logis, and heavies. With different types of vehicles on the battlefield, and actually look like a war is going on. It seems to me though that the majority of the community feels it should just be Assault Rifles and nothing else. No snipers, no Logis, nothing just a bunch of bunny hopping butt ******* fags running around with assault rifles, with no real skill, spraying a wall of bullets at everyone. That game is already out btw, it's called COD, or BF3, or MOH, or almost any other generic quick fix shooter made thus far. Personally, I don't think assault guys have a whole lot of skill, you hold the trigger down for 15 seconds, keep spraying until you kill the other guy, or he kills you. And in most games your accuracy is about 10%. Now accuracy is a part of shooting last I checked. So if your accuracy is crap, that kinda makes you crap to yes? And don't start with that gun game bullshit. That's a term people came up with to try and make it sound like they had found some special skill in a video game. At it's base you're still just aiming and pulling a button.
Um...what game are you playing? Are there a good number of guys fielding ARs? Sure. Is that it? No freaking way. As proven by the kill notifications I keep receiving from sniper rifles & rail guns. I've also had people walk up to me with shotguns & nova knives...distant strikes from missiles & forge guns. Me personally? I start each match with an assault suit and two pistols & av grenades, just for giggles, then I have 7 loadouts I switch between with different weapons for different tasks.
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:As for the boosting, me and my friends have been talking about it for 2 days. There's only 2 ways to fix it and make it fair to the Logi guys that actually play the class legitly.
1. Passive SP- Up the passive SP gain for everyone by about 4x. That way we're getting SP at a faster rate. And you aren't screwing anyone over.
2. Both sides get the same SP every round. Ex. Each member of each team gets say 20k SP after each round.
Now I hear the problems with this already. Waaahhh I won I should get more, or get something cause my team did better...Well you did, you got the W, while the other team took a loss, grow up and move on and quit whining. Why does everyone need to be rewarded for doing what they are supposed to do?
I'll start by saying I have a healthy & normal bias against anyone who say's there's only X ways to do kittening anything. It's an ignorant statement that assumes you've thought of everything. If there were only X number of ways to do ANYTHING I'd imagine whoever was in charge of making the decision would try out all of the ways proposed & declare one of them superior to all of the others, then just do it.
I've proposed an SP balancing variant that I feel is both different & superior in it's attempt to encourage diverse gameplay. A flat "everyone gets a kitten" approach was never one of them, because it's stupid. I'm not going to agree to give Johnny Diddles In The Corner & Barron Von Team Killington the same XP as Sir Anti-tank McHacks A Lot, The Compulsive Sociopath, or The Chaz Drives A Tank. As long as there's any gain per match there's the possibility of having it exploited.
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:Any other solution completely fucks Logis, unless you do it to everyone involved.
EX. Cut the SP gain by performing the same action, such as repping. Ok but then you got to cut SP gain for kills, captures, revives, spawns, and nanohive resupplies.
Want to make it so you can't heal friendly inflicted damage, what about the guy who accidentally hit a building while he was flying around or trying to outmaneuver a forge gunner? He shouldn't be able to rep that?
My friend had the idea of making so you could only be remote repaired once and then you couldn't be again for say 20 seconds. Then Im just gonna focus fire you while no one else can rep you, and that completely negates spider tanking later, which is a whole new world of playing.
Want to cap SP gain in general, that's cool but those guys doing the boosting will always hit the cap so that doesn't really fix it either.
Guess you could make it so repairing doesn't give you SP, but that fucks over the single best way for a Logi to get SP, and completely negates his primary function. So if you do it to Logis, then assault and snipers don't get SP for kills, just everything else they do, since it's there primary role and the best way for them to get SP.
So, I feel that the SP Ceiling will be beneficial, but not completely resolve the issue just like you do, however Balance should encourage diverse gameplay without needlessly punishing players.
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:If you screw the class over to bad no one is gonna play Logi, which is against the whole point of the game. You know the being able to play your class, your way, and not be put into a predetermined role or loadout. Although, from the looks of it CCP should wipe out everything in the game and give us all assault suits and assault rifles, take off the stamina bar so we can all bunny hop around and spray endless amounts of ammo at each other, and then talk about how "skillful"(I prefer ********) we all are.
And the only thing that screws over anyone are the solutions that you've proposed... Abuseable mechanics will be abused...but I'd rather have one person taking advantage until we close the loophole than force everyone else to lose rewards for good game play. A flat "per mission" skill gain (or a flat "per mission" anything) can turn a good game into a grind very quickly. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Too long OP failed. |
Mosley Harmless
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.09.26 02:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
TL;DR
"You're not playing the game the way I think it should be played so here's a wall of text." |
TEB0W
1
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Posted - 2012.09.26 02:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mosley Harmless wrote:TL;DR
"You're not playing the game the way I think it should be played so here's a wall of text."
lol...
i miss the days of op tanks.. now they cry about them damn kittenaults..
wait ok.. i get it now.. the op is a logi bro- come heal my heavy plz.. *slight wave of hand* those (blues) are not the randoms you're looking for.
PROTIP: when someone bunnyhops you stop shooting, then you shoot some more when they land. |
Lorttomaaria
2
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
That was very nice and illuminating post, OP. Thank you for that, really. So you are saying that I should stop playing DUST because I'm not too (well, at all) experienced in it. That I should stop playing because I'm so noob that I use mainly Assault Rifles while LEARNING the game.
That I should go play some other shooter, say COD, even when I fell in love with Dust because it allows me to better myself in so many ways, and experience the awesomeness of multitudes of skills and weapons/vehicles.
So I should stop playing because I'm not already super-logistics-pilot-killer.
I appreciate it. |
Alhanna Ridgeway
123
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
People seem to think I play Logi, that's kinda funny. LOL I love assumptions. You do realize what assuming does right? |
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