DUST Search - I have an idea to help fix the "noob vs vet" problem

Parson Atreides wrote:

mikegunnz wrote:

Parson Atreides wrote:

Ten-Sidhe wrote:

Maybe a sp/wp bonus for killing better gear then your using. Biggest difference is gun used and dropsuit. Could be calculated off meta level, or base cost(ccp set price based of minerals needed, actual price will vary, same number EvE bases insurance payouts on)

This would give new players the bonus, but only give older(in game time) players bonus if using weak gear.

That's not bad, but I still think you're going to hit a point where it's more beneficial to use worse gear than you have access too simply because the game is limiting your WP accrual based on your fitting--a situation that should be avoided like the plague.

Not sure you'd be limited. Even if you have high-level gear, if you kill someone in high-level gear, you get more WP. If you kill a militia fit, you get less. Either way, you still get WP. I don't see a penalty for using proto gear.

Are you talking about Sidhe's idea or your own original one?

If you're talking about Sidhe's, then you'd only be getting more WP than normal if you killed someone with highER-level gear. Which would mean it's at least possible to intentionally gimp yourself to increase your WP gained, which seems like a very strange notion if you want to encourage people to progress to better stuff.

If you're talking about your original idea, then I think my first post deals with that. You're going to have an even larger gap between new players and vets if you award a flat rate WP earned based on gear level of victim since it will always be easier for a well geared player of the same skill level to kill a player with good gear (relative to a poorly geared player of the same skill versus someone with good gear).


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mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.22 16:01:00 - [1] - Quote I actually started thinking about this with the other post on assists. The OP in that post wanted for assists to get equal points with kills. This idea is stupid. However, I though, "why not make a system like battlefield 3" You get assist points based on the amount of damage you did to the player. A kill earns you full points, but you can earn almost as many points if you did most of the damage, but someone else jumped in and finished the guy off. Seems fair. ex: You do 75% of the damage, but only get assist...you earn 75% of the WP of the kill. (37 or 38 WP) That got me thinking...why not base not only assist points, but also kill points off a similar system. Reward kill points (and damage/assist points) based on the cost of the opponent's suit. If you kill a newbie with an all-militia fit, it earns you 50 WP. If you kill someone with an expensive fit, you earn 1 additional WP for every 2,000 isk that the fit costs. ex. Killing a free, all militia fit = 50WP Killing a fit that costs 250,000isk= 50WP+125WP=175WP. This will reward newbies that can kill vets, and help them level up faster. And it also penalizes the "try-hards" that like to nub-farm, as they will earn less WP, than if they played against competitive players, with high-level gear. edit How about 1 WP for every 5000 isk? ex. Killing a free, all militia fit = 50WP Killing a 50,000isk fit = 50WP+10WP=60WP Killing a fit that costs 250,000isk= 50WP+50WP=100WP.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.22 17:27:00 - [2] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Ten-Sidhe wrote: Maybe a sp/wp bonus for killing better gear then your using. Biggest difference is gun used and dropsuit. Could be calculated off meta level, or base cost(ccp set price based of minerals needed, actual price will vary, same number EvE bases insurance payouts on) This would give new players the bonus, but only give older(in game time) players bonus if using weak gear. That's not bad, but I still think you're going to hit a point where it's more beneficial to use worse gear than you have access too simply because the game is limiting your WP accrual based on your fitting--a situation that should be avoided like the plague. Not sure you'd be limited. Even if you have high-level gear, if you kill someone in high-level gear, you get more WP. If you kill a militia fit, you get less. Either way, you still get WP. I don't see a penalty for using proto gear.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.22 17:44:00 - [3] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: mikegunnz wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: Ten-Sidhe wrote: Maybe a sp/wp bonus for killing better gear then your using. Biggest difference is gun used and dropsuit. Could be calculated off meta level, or base cost(ccp set price based of minerals needed, actual price will vary, same number EvE bases insurance payouts on) This would give new players the bonus, but only give older(in game time) players bonus if using weak gear. That's not bad, but I still think you're going to hit a point where it's more beneficial to use worse gear than you have access too simply because the game is limiting your WP accrual based on your fitting--a situation that should be avoided like the plague. Not sure you'd be limited. Even if you have high-level gear, if you kill someone in high-level gear, you get more WP. If you kill a militia fit, you get less. Either way, you still get WP. I don't see a penalty for using proto gear. Are you talking about Sidhe's idea or your own original one? If you're talking about Sidhe's, then you'd only be getting more WP than normal if you killed someone with highER-level gear. Which would mean it's at least possible to intentionally gimp yourself to increase your WP gained, which seems like a very strange notion if you want to encourage people to progress to better stuff. If you're talking about your original idea, then I think my first post deals with that. You're going to have an even larger gap between new players and vets if you award a flat rate WP earned based on gear level of victim since it will always be easier for a well geared player of the same skill level to kill a player with good gear (relative to a poorly geared player of the same skill versus someone with good gear). I was talking about my idea. I suppose there is some validity to your argument. But I'd say, this already happens right now. Place a skilled prototype vet in a match with newbies, they can easily go 20-1. They just earned 1000 WP. Some of the other players might go 10-4, 6-5, etc. The vet earned WAY more WP than they did. WIth my system, the new guys at least have a chance to earn a few extra points for getting some kills against a vet.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.22 21:28:00 - [4] - Quote Most experienced players won't run expensive fits all the time. This is just ONE aspect to potentially help balance the game by making it accessible for new guys, and still deep for vets. Why not reward a player using militia gear for killing a guy using high end gear. If you don't like the example I gave, reduce the bonus. Instead of giving 125 additional points (1WP for every 2000isk) make it 50 additional WP (1 additional WP for every 5000 isk) They've dropped the HP differences on adv/proto suits, increased the cost of gear, reduced the % increases of skills, etc. This was done to help keep the game deep, but give newbies a fighting chance against the vets. A couple builds ago, a below average player could run proto/complex fit, and easily kill players in militia gear. (even if the militia player was more skilled) Now, the playing field is more leveled. Players win based on skill, more so than, skills/fits. This would just be one more aspect to helping balance the game. TBH, even for those that don't like THIS idea, you can't argue with the "assist points" idea. It's already implemented in BF3, and works well.