DUST Search - Nerf the militia equipment

Scalesdini wrote:

Did you ever think that maybe the guy with the militia gear is just more talented than you are? Maybe he's better at picking skills, or just better in a gunfight.

If there's one thing I've learned while upgrading weapons and equipment, it's not so much the difference in the weapons that get you, it's more the difference in SP investment needed to get those weapons. The Duvolle is statistically not much better than the standard AR, however the skills needed to use it give a huge advantage over someone without those same skills, no matter which model of AR the person skilled into AR's is using. But I guarantee you that if you have a GEK or a Duvolle and you're getting torn down one on one by guys with militia assault rifles, it's not because the militia gear is a problem, it's because you're lacking in the ability to properly set up your fittings, poor choices when investing SP, or you're just not as good as he is. Possibly a combination of the three.

No offense intended, but it's easy to blame gear either way. People who get slaughtered by high level players with fantastic gear complain that it's OP, the people with the fantastic gear get nailed by some newbs and complain it needs nerfed, etc. Sometimes the actual issue is merely a discrepancy in skill level.

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Hiseki Lionel Algintal Core Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2012.09.21 02:04:00 - [1] - Quote I know I'm not alone with this bull. I'm getting tired of having some punk ass with militia assault rifle killing me, HITTING ME and killing me while I'm firing at them with a god damned standard lvl rifle and somehow my shots don't hit. I'm tired of flying a drop ship and having it taken down by a couple guys with militia lvl launchers. I'm tired of militia lvl gear able to stand toe to toe with others with better gear and fracking win! Militia gear should be a last resort style of gear that you use because you have NO choice. Not because it's a way to win to without risking anything. From what I understand, a big part of this game is risk and reward and consequence. Well here's a fact for you CCP. Right now, I can take all militia gear, risk nothing, and come out of it with a lot of reward. So I'm not asking you to buff the others. I'm asking you to make the blasted militia equipment what it should be. MILITIA equipment. I don't care if I'm shot and killed twenty times by a guy with a prototype rifle. I do get pissed off when I spend isk and sp to upgrade myself and find out that I wasted it all on that doesn't even make a damned bit of difference because the militia grade is just as good to use against others.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.21 02:08:00 - [2] - Quote Blame hit detection, they may also have all the assault rifle skills maxed, it makes a bit impact on the militia rifle and makes it act like a high level rifle being used by someone with very little SP invested. Also chill the **** out.
GarryKE Omnispace Trading Company 60	Posted - 2012.09.21 02:12:00 - [3] - Quote There's no reason to get angry. Just remember it's beta. This generally indicates that not everything will be working. Another good thing to remember: there might be a reason for the militia equipment being more powerful than your own, you just haven't thought of it yet.
Tarralis ZionTCD Legacy Rising 18	Posted - 2012.09.21 02:20:00 - [4] - Quote I see this too, but I usually just chalk it up to buggy stuff and sub-par playing style. Off topic, I do see there only looks to be one skill that lowers PG usage, compared to the multitude that reduces CPU.
Hiseki Lionel Algintal Core Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2012.09.21 02:22:00 - [5] - Quote I almost like Cerebrals reasons actually. But at the same time, I still find it ridiculous. And I'm bringing up precisely because it IS beta. If the problem isn't fixed, there's a high chance this game will devolve into something like Halo with a bunch of kids running around, ignoring the objectives and just killing a lot of things and all they'll have to complain about is getting killed it won't be because of losing their equipment because they'll just use militia gear and be able to do a lot of killing. And Cerebral, your reason is logical and it's more than likely right. But that just makes the need to nerf them that much greater. It comes back to what I said before, risk and consequence. These guys using militia, if they're able to make it act like high lvl equipment that again remove the risk/consequence portion of it. I know this is petty but I like to enjoy the fact that when I kill someone I know I hurt them more than with their kill/death ratio. I also understand that right now it's possibly being done because they don't have a matching system so that low skilled players can play against low skilled players and the same for high skilled, yet. But just because they don't have it, doesn't mean they should do something like this. They should just let players figure it out that they need to skill up and go down a path. Not give them OP'd equipment and tell them to have fun.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.21 02:37:00 - [6] - Quote Militia equipment is not going to be free in the future, you're going to have to buy it.
Supercakers Algintal Core Gallente Federation 45	Posted - 2012.09.21 03:24:00 - [7] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Militia equipment is not going to be free in the future, you're going to have to buy it. This has been said by the devs? By the way, the difference between militia and type 2 gear is huge. Not just cpu/pg useage (which is big in itself) but also damage/defense from weapons or dropsuits. And to back up what has been said about having a high level of skills to use certain weapons like AR etc, yes it makes even militia pretty good. But that is the bonus from sinking that many sp into certain skills. The actual paid weapons are quite a bit better but maybe effectiveness of militia gear might be shaved by.. 10% or so. I wouldn't go too crazy though.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.21 03:31:00 - [8] - Quote I use an advanced suit, it's got less HP/Shield than the Type-II, They actually have the best stats right now tank wise, but i know where you're coming from. With the CPU/PG i get on the advanced suits i can fit quite a lot on there to allow me to play lone wolf and still come up on top of the boards unless im having a really bad game. It has been said that the dev's want to make militia gear cost isk, it's not been confirmed that they are doing it, but it is what they want. Just search the forums.
madd mudd 41	Posted - 2012.09.21 03:56:00 - [9] - Quote Not sure if trolling or just stupid...
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.09.21 04:03:00 - [10] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Also chill the **** out.

Jaric Kieranson Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 12	Posted - 2012.09.21 04:08:00 - [11] - Quote Wolf pretty much nailed it. However, there will always have to be some kind of 'free' equipment, as running out of money is a possibility. While the blueprint for Militia gear would (does?) cost, that's about all they could do.
Scalesdini Universal Allies Inc. 58	Posted - 2012.09.21 05:04:00 - [12] - Quote Did you ever think that maybe the guy with the militia gear is just more talented than you are? Maybe he's better at picking skills, or just better in a gunfight. If there's one thing I've learned while upgrading weapons and equipment, it's not so much the difference in the weapons that get you, it's more the difference in SP investment needed to get those weapons. The Duvolle is statistically not much better than the standard AR, however the skills needed to use it give a huge advantage over someone without those same skills, no matter which model of AR the person skilled into AR's is using. But I guarantee you that if you have a GEK or a Duvolle and you're getting torn down one on one by guys with militia assault rifles, it's not because the militia gear is a problem, it's because you're lacking in the ability to properly set up your fittings, poor choices when investing SP, or you're just not as good as he is. Possibly a combination of the three. No offense intended, but it's easy to blame gear either way. People who get slaughtered by high level players with fantastic gear complain that it's OP, the people with the fantastic gear get nailed by some newbs and complain it needs nerfed, etc. Sometimes the actual issue is merely a discrepancy in skill level.
ugg reset ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2012.09.21 05:44:00 - [13] - Quote Scalesdini wrote: Did you ever think that maybe the guy with the militia gear is just more talented than you are? Maybe he's better at picking skills, or just better in a gunfight. If there's one thing I've learned while upgrading weapons and equipment, it's not so much the difference in the weapons that get you, it's more the difference in SP investment needed to get those weapons. The Duvolle is statistically not much better than the standard AR, however the skills needed to use it give a huge advantage over someone without those same skills, no matter which model of AR the person skilled into AR's is using. But I guarantee you that if you have a GEK or a Duvolle and you're getting torn down one on one by guys with militia assault rifles, it's not because the militia gear is a problem, it's because you're lacking in the ability to properly set up your fittings, poor choices when investing SP, or you're just not as good as he is. Possibly a combination of the three. No offense intended, but it's easy to blame gear either way. People who get slaughtered by high level players with fantastic gear complain that it's OP, the people with the fantastic gear get nailed by some newbs and complain it needs nerfed, etc. Sometimes the actual issue is merely a discrepancy in skill level. ^this^ there is alot more to this game then point and shoot.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2012.09.21 05:52:00 - [14] - Quote ._. Wow never thought I'd here this. It's perfect the way it is right now. Advance equipment gives you more stat boosts if you wanna talk in RPG-terms. Already have your passive skills leveled up allows you to be proficient with weaker weapons. Also simply having better skill as a shooter could've done you in.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.09.21 10:09:00 - [15] - Quote Hiseki Lionel wrote: Militia gear should be a last resort style of gear that you use because you have NO choice. And what if the person is simply more skillful and doesn't need to use better gear to compensate for a lack of skill? Why use something more expensive when you can use something cheaper with nearly equal results? That's call profit optimization. Sounds like you're angry that your better gear isn't winning battles for you. The difference between Standard and Prototype is about 20%, Militia is generally similar to Standard but with a couple downsides. The best gear is not going to give you some godlike overwhelming power...it just helps a little. If you're having issues killing militia users with whatever gear you're using...I hate to say it, but you need to improve your shooting skills instead. Calling for the nerf of gear which uses more resources, reloads slower, and holds less ammo...it's just kinda sad man. Like I said I hate to say it and be a **** about it but...git gud?
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.21 11:39:00 - [16] - Quote Disagree completely. I think the gear has a big enough impact on the balance already, maybe even too much. Skills are more important (both player- and character-skills) if you want to win a fight and I think that's how it should be. I don't have a problem when someone with high skills can kill me with a militia weapon. What me pisses me off more, is people killing me with high level gear actually...
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.21 11:51:00 - [17] - Quote Hell yea I'll get behind any Nerf +1 OP So anyway what we nerfing didnt read the thread?
Tyas Borg Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 112	Posted - 2012.09.21 13:31:00 - [18] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Hell yea I'll get behind any Nerf +1 OP So anyway what we nerfing didnt read the thread? You. On topic. I tend to agree with this thread. I can easily hold my own in militia gear at this point and do regularly. In fact I find it more fun frankly, sure I may die a bunch in a match but it's costing me nothing. Every kill I score is hurting the other guys wallet. That said there needs to be something done about it. Guys with high gear should be tough and a real challenge to take out. In this respect it's a fine line we're treading. For example, contrary to what I posted above I really do feel that militia AV shouldn't even exist in game. Nobody has the right to shoot me for free with no investment, whilst my investment is millions of both isk and SP. The same can be said to counter my argument above, the guys who have proto stuff don't deserve to take any damage from militie gear. As it stands what we're testing is beyond confusing. People are crying nerf this and that everywhere and the game isn't even finished. I personally hope they remove all militia gear. Perhaps then people will truly understand the whole concept of investment, risk and reward. As it stands any noob can kill most stuff, for free and with zero loss. It makes no sense levelling at all tbh.
Thomas Canalejo 69	Posted - 2012.09.21 13:49:00 - [19] - Quote lol WTF Nerf the militia equipment . I bet when he runs out of funds hell start saying this is a pay to win game.
I-SHAYZ-I 24	Posted - 2012.09.21 18:31:00 - [20] - Quote Assault rifles need to be less accurate, and even more so for the militia versions. Any militia items should be just good enough to do their job, but not do it well . Also, militia swarms should do way less damage than the regular ones.

J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.09.21 21:38:00 - [21] - Quote So you all want to go back to when having Proto gear made you win every time versus a newb? Nah... The point is not to make you more powerful, but to give you an advantage. Your advantage is extra slots and CPU. Sounds like you just need to get gud... ;)
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.09.21 21:59:00 - [22] - Quote 1. Make sure your passive skills are up to snuff. Maxing out Weaponry is a 25% boost to your damage, meaning a militia AR can do more damage than a prototype version if the proto guy hasn't given the weaponry skill enough love. Fancy gear is just a waste of ISK without the passive skills to back it up. 2. We don't know exactly how the militia stuff is going to work in the final release, but it sounds like nothing will be truly free outside of the Starter Fits. (More like the EVE BPO/BPC system, but things are probably still up in the air.)
Goric Rumis Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2012.09.21 23:29:00 - [23] - Quote Hm, I don't have a problem with it right now. I can have fun playing with militia stuff, but if I have a serious objective (for example, taking out an enemy vehicle or installation, or defending a point against poor odds) then I'll risk some money on more advanced gear. Unless I develop some crazy gunfighting skills, I'll never default to proto; IMHO, it's there for utility, not for pwnership.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.09.21 23:54:00 - [24] - Quote Hiseki Lionel wrote: QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ basically what i read
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.09.22 00:04:00 - [25] - Quote So you want to be able to always beat people with slightly lower grade weapons than you, even if they're way better players than you? The reason you can't hit is a hit detection problem, there will be a fix in the next update. Militia stuff won't always be unlimited, they plan on changing that. EDIT: Dropships and LAVs need a buff in light of AV being more powerful.


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