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Domin Nate
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.09.21 00:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings I, like many of my fellow alliance mates intend on playing in both Dust and Eve Online. Recently we have discussion about the mechanics involved with running a corporation that contains both Eve and Dust characters. Since this is our primary goal many of us have been pushing our already active Eve Alliance to get more heavily involved in Faction Warfare, specifically because from our understanding this is where Dust 514 will launch into. The more we discussed it we could not really find any confirmation about how Dust and Eve players will actually interact. We all know that Orbital Bombardment is the big wow factor for the interaction with it ability to bring direct fire support to the planet but what about everything else.
This brings me to a few important questions that really I need to know before making this commitment to move into FW with our active Eve Alliance::
1. Will Dust Corporations actually be aligned with factions or just do "merc" work for them?
2. Will Dust players actually gain or lose standings through the contracts they perform for different factions? Would this impact your corporation standings as it does in Eve since it is technically the same corp.
3. Is there any benefit/penality to having a Dust Corporation in a alliance? Does this impact standings, our ability to group up or the defense of territories?
4. If my Eve Alliance is not in Faction Warfare will they be able to provide Dust Players Direct fire support on the ground who are taking part in FW? If not would the action result in a security loss?
In the end the importance of the answers to these questions for both myself and my alliance can not be overstated. Thanks in advance for any answers that can be provided. Please help me keep this posting on top so we can get some solid answers on these questions. |
INVALID FITTING
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2012.09.21 00:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Domin Nate wrote: 2. Will Dust players actually gain or lose standings through the contracts they perform for different factions? Would this impact your corporation standings as it does in Eve since it is technically the same corp.
This will be interesting based on how it was implemented, this could really limit the pub matches if someone gets low enough standings.
how would it deal with war targets, anyone have any ideas? |
Deadly Mitauchi
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
140
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 00:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
A lot is still unanswered about Dust and its player corporations. We share some of these same questions as well! Answers would be awesome!!! |
A-P-P
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
85
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Posted - 2012.09.21 01:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's a great set of questions.
For the EVE players who are looking to have dust mercs in their alliance, questions like these need to be addressed in order to facilitate long term planning.
Maybe the term "mercs" means just that, mercenaries for hire. And in that case they won't really effect anything besides the sovereignty of a planet.
But if the Dusters are able to effect the factional standings of an entire alliance then this is a big issue that needs careful consideration |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
421
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 01:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
If corp standings are based on the average of the player standings, will the DUST mercs screw with the corp standings? Could DUST mercs mess things up for their corp if they are with a particular Faction? |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 01:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think if we are going to be influencing EVE's systems in FW (by assisting in flipping the system) then maybe it'd be required to have that corp in FW.
Maybe, if your corp isn't aligned in FW, then your dust players are just doing the instant battle, noonegivesakittenaboutmatches.
But knowing for sure on these questions would help all dust corps make decisions better then just jumping in on FW then having limited area of operation for eve pilots cause of NPC standings. |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
417
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 01:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm sincerely wondering how much of an impact Dust characters are going to have on the current FW metagame. Is it just going to have to do with controlling systems, or will there be other effects that holding a planet in a system has? |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 01:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:I'm sincerely wondering how much of an impact Dust characters are going to have on the current FW metagame. Is it just going to have to do with controlling systems, or will there be other effects that holding a planet in a system has?
Maybe they might add in their PI bonuses for FW and then once it's out, sov would give a little more of a PI bonus on districts that dust players had taken for their faction.
And there could also be the question of:
Will dust players get LP from FW? |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 01:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
I just hope that DUST has a big enough effect on low and null sec that it makes ignoring DUST unfavorable. Not impossible, just much more beneficial to invest in DUST mercs and have them fight for you.
Anyways, as others have said, answers would be nice! Even a roundtable discussion on mechanics of sov and such if CCP isn't sure yet. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 02:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:I just hope that DUST has a big enough effect on low and null sec that it makes ignoring DUST unfavorable. Not impossible, just much more beneficial to invest in DUST mercs and have them fight for you.
Anyways, as others have said, answers would be nice! Even a roundtable discussion on mechanics of sov and such if CCP isn't sure yet.
sov is too far down the line, FW they've stated will be where the integration starts, so knowing more on that would be alot better then any answers on Sov imo.
Although that'll come in time. |
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SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
421
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 04:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
I really do wonder if a few DUST mercs could, possibly intentionally, ruin the standings for a corp or alliance by taking missions in high sec or something that negatively affect the standings. |
virgindestroyer7 moustacherid
13
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 05:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
INVALID FITTING wrote:Domin Nate wrote: 2. Will Dust players actually gain or lose standings through the contracts they perform for different factions? Would this impact your corporation standings as it does in Eve since it is technically the same corp.
This will be interesting based on how it was implemented, this could really limit the pub matches if someone gets low enough standings. how would it deal with war targets, anyone have any ideas?
if i see INVALID FITTING one more time!!!! |
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
172
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 05:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Domin Nate wrote:Greetings I, like many of my fellow alliance mates intend on playing in both Dust and Eve Online. Recently we have discussion about the mechanics involved with running a corporation that contains both Eve and Dust characters. Since this is our primary goal many of us have been pushing our already active Eve Alliance to get more heavily involved in Faction Warfare, specifically because from our understanding this is where Dust 514 will launch into. The more we discussed it we could not really find any confirmation about how Dust and Eve players will actually interact. We all know that Orbital Bombardment is the big wow factor for the interaction with it ability to bring direct fire support to the planet but what about everything else.
This brings me to a few important questions that really I need to know before making this commitment to move into FW with our active Eve Alliance::
1. Will Dust Corporations actually be aligned with factions or just do "merc" work for them?
2. Will Dust players actually gain or lose standings through the contracts they perform for different factions? Would this impact your corporation standings as it does in Eve since it is technically the same corp.
3. Is there any benefit/penality to having a Dust Corporation in a alliance? Does this impact standings, our ability to group up or the defense of territories?
4. If my Eve Alliance is not in Faction Warfare will they be able to provide Dust Players Direct fire support on the ground who are taking part in FW? If not would the action result in a security loss?
In the end the importance of the answers to these questions for both myself and my alliance can not be overstated. Thanks in advance for any answers that can be provided. Please help me keep this posting on top so we can get some solid answers on these questions.
1. Dust Corporations can act just like EVE Corporations I believe.
2. More than likely because word spreads around quick if a corporation sucks. Makes them easy targets.
3. Of course there are benefits and penalties. It all depends on how they used them.
4. Probably not.
Here http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/09/13/dust-514-gets-new-player-corporation-features-integrates-with-eve-online/ this should help you and your alliance. |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
417
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 05:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Oh man, this guy quoted the blog that everyone has already read. Surely all these questions have been answered to the fullest extent.
;D |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 08:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Domin Nate wrote:Greetings I, like many of my fellow alliance mates intend on playing in both Dust and Eve Online. Recently we have discussion about the mechanics involved with running a corporation that contains both Eve and Dust characters. Since this is our primary goal many of us have been pushing our already active Eve Alliance to get more heavily involved in Faction Warfare, specifically because from our understanding this is where Dust 514 will launch into. The more we discussed it we could not really find any confirmation about how Dust and Eve players will actually interact. We all know that Orbital Bombardment is the big wow factor for the interaction with it ability to bring direct fire support to the planet but what about everything else.
This brings me to a few important questions that really I need to know before making this commitment to move into FW with our active Eve Alliance::
1. Will Dust Corporations actually be aligned with factions or just do "merc" work for them?
2. Will Dust players actually gain or lose standings through the contracts they perform for different factions? Would this impact your corporation standings as it does in Eve since it is technically the same corp.
3. Is there any benefit/penality to having a Dust Corporation in a alliance? Does this impact standings, our ability to group up or the defense of territories?
4. If my Eve Alliance is not in Faction Warfare will they be able to provide Dust Players Direct fire support on the ground who are taking part in FW? If not would the action result in a security loss?
In the end the importance of the answers to these questions for both myself and my alliance can not be overstated. Thanks in advance for any answers that can be provided. Please help me keep this posting on top so we can get some solid answers on these questions.
HOLY KITTEN DRAFT **** KITTEN FREAKIN TOOL !!!!! I juste wrote down a massive text on all this and it got blown up !!!!! KIIIITTTTEEEN !!!
EDIT : so here we go again....... Shorter this time.... kitten !
1) As mixed corps will be up day 1, it has no reasons to work differently than it does with EVE atm. But, maybe with the gameplay changes, we'll see new types of possibilities to get into FW. Such as player issued contracts for specific jobs in FW for mercs and capsuleers.
2) There's a standing menu in the character sheet in D514. And, again : mixed corps. So, it's only logical that dust mercs will be impacted by their fight in FW.
Now, what would standings mean in Dust is a good question ? => Obviously, a bad standing would forbid access to missions\contracts issued by a faction\corp. => In the case where dust items are suddenly produced by Capsuleers (wich imo shall be sooner than later), standing would also impact where you could buy stuff, and maybe its price depending on you standing with the system\station owner.
3) Okay, this was the longest part.... And i dont feel like retyping everything. But, clearly there will be benefit for working on both sides. Regarding FW, just check the drawing showed during the "seeding the univers" conference last Fanfest.
http://www.dust514-france.fr/fanfest-2012-les-maps-de-dust-514-creation-et-gameplay
It clearly shows how usefull having mercs and capsuleers together will be. Attack alone in space and you'll face ennemy ships AND anti-orbital artillery. Attack alone on the ground and you'll face mercs and OB. Attack on both sides and you'll get a fair fight OR outnumber the ennemy and in the end, win two structures that will count in the system's Sov.
4) Would only make sense that taking part in a FW fight implies being enlisted in FW. Or, like i suggested in 1), maybe a new type of contract will exist for temporary FW jobs. Even in this case, it would be only fair that it impacts your security status. Maybe less than if you were actually enlisted but still. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 11:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:I just hope that DUST has a big enough effect on low and null sec that it makes ignoring DUST unfavorable. Not impossible, just much more beneficial to invest in DUST mercs and have them fight for you.
Anyways, as others have said, answers would be nice! Even a roundtable discussion on mechanics of sov and such if CCP isn't sure yet. sov is too far down the line, FW they've stated will be where the integration starts, so knowing more on that would be alot better then any answers on Sov imo. Although that'll come in time.
Sorry, meant Sov as in taking and controlling territories in low sec for your faction. I am a noob sometimes with correct EVE terminology. :) |
Salazar Skye-fire
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
85
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 11:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
it would be interesting to know these answers and quite possibly more before my crew has to correct things we have in motion.
one would assume that correcting a standings in dust would require a bit of work since you can easily pop in and out of games quick unless for FW they are specially longer and require more than just 1 or 2 matches. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
785
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 12:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
1. Will Dust Corporations actually be aligned with factions or just do "merc" work for them?
This is up to the dust corporation in question. They can take contracts from all FW militias or just one faction, if they choose. We're mercenaries after all. We can work for anyone and everyone, or be as choosy as we want.
2. Will Dust players actually gain or lose standings through the contracts they perform for different factions? Would this impact your corporation standings as it does in Eve since it is technically the same corp.
Details on Standings are undisclosed. However, the current plan is that to accept a FW contract, the corporation must put a ISK fee as 'collateral' into escrow, which they do not get back if they lose. This is to add a sense of risk/loss and make winning actually matter. If the corporation in question wins, they get their reward as well as the collateral back.
3. Is there any benefit/penality to having a Dust Corporation in a alliance? Does this impact standings, our ability to group up or the defense of territories?
The benefit is that you do not have to hire random people, mostly. Contracts could be set so only certain corporations/alliances can accept them, so you might not be able to have your friends join you if they are not in your corp/alliance.
4. If my Eve Alliance is not in Faction Warfare will they be able to provide Dust Players Direct fire support on the ground who are taking part in FW? If not would the action result in a security loss?
They would be able to OB the dust mercs, however there is a high chance that FW players in eve would take notice and come to do something about it, or already have ships near the planet. As said above, Standing stuff is undisclosed atm.
|
Domin Nate
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 16:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thanks for jumping in here Nova to help answer some of these questions. Your knowledge is appreciated.
Nova Knife wrote:
1. Will Dust Corporations actually be aligned with factions or just do "merc" work for them?
This is up to the dust corporation in question. They can take contracts from all FW militias or just one faction, if they choose. We're mercenaries after all. We can work for anyone and everyone, or be as choosy as we want.
If a a Dust player joins an existing Eve Corporation, then it would be my presumption that they would also inherit that corporations standings and restrictions, specifically if that could has pledged itself as part of the militia. Is this your understanding too or are Dust players still free to do as they please even though technically they are part of a FW corp?
Nova Knife wrote: 2. Will Dust players actually gain or lose standings through the contracts they perform for different factions? Would this impact your corporation standings as it does in Eve since it is technically the same corp.
Details on Standings are undisclosed. However, the current plan is that to accept a FW contract, the corporation must put a ISK fee as 'collateral' into escrow, which they do not get back if they lose. This is to add a sense of risk/loss and make winning actually matter. If the corporation in question wins, they get their reward as well as the collateral back.
The whole collateral thing is great!!! I like the idea of actually risking something to even take a contract. I am hoping that one of the Devs will throw me a bone on the standings question, especially since Eve/Dust corps are the same thing. It jsut would be nice to know how/if internally members of the corporations will have a positive or negative impact on the standings to that same corp from both games.
Nova Knife wrote: 3. Is there any benefit/penality to having a Dust Corporation in a alliance? Does this impact standings, our ability to group up or the defense of territories?
The benefit is that you do not have to hire random people, mostly. Contracts could be set so only certain corporations/alliances can accept them, so you might not be able to have your friends join you if they are not in your corp/alliance.
Nice
Nova Knife wrote: 4. If my Eve Alliance is not in Faction Warfare will they be able to provide Dust Players Direct fire support on the ground who are taking part in FW? If not would the action result in a security loss?
They would be able to OB the dust mercs, however there is a high chance that FW players in eve would take notice and come to do something about it, or already have ships near the planet. As said above, Standing stuff is undisclosed atm.
I guess standings is the biggest remaining question I have then. Since being in FW really means that all of your players need to maintain certain standings it would be important to know how Dust members and their actions could potential impact those standings when you are all in the same corp/alliance. |
Salazar Skye-fire
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
85
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 00:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
that sounds good i like the financial risk added to accepting contracts |
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 14:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Great questions OP.
This is why a lot of EVE corps and alliances are paying cautious attention to DUST, and are positioning themselves somewhat, but haven't been able to pull the trigger yet on their DUST-adaptation plans.
We really are seeing only 10% of the game, and as far as EVE vets are concerned, so far it's only the trivial merc pew-pew 10%. |
RedBleach
50
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 16:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
The duty to bump and I imagine that from what has been released, as far as we know, the corporations will function exactly like EVE's. Even though that doesn't really work for a Merc style game - taking contracts, ect. Now it looks like we will be more like employees of the corporations already in EVE and not really free to do whatever contract we want.
I get that EVE is big, that there are alliances, corporations, and more that I don't even grasp the complexity of, but that being said, I can still only join one corporation at a time, only work for their interests, not get involved in anygame that might offend or affect another member of the alliance negatively, ... and more. Just another day at work my friends, not a mercenary setup. IMO |
Brumae Verres
24
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 17:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
RedBleach wrote:The duty to bump and I imagine that from what has been released, as far as we know, the corporations will function exactly like EVE's. Even though that doesn't really work for a Merc style game - taking contracts, ect. Now it looks like we will be more like employees of the corporations already in EVE and not really free to do whatever contract we want.
I get that EVE is big, that there are alliances, corporations, and more that I don't even grasp the complexity of, but that being said, I can still only join one corporation at a time, only work for their interests, not get involved in anygame that might offend or affect another member of the alliance negatively, ... and more. Just another day at work my friends, not a mercenary setup. IMO
From what I've seen of EVE, there is a corp for every interest. If you want complete freedom to shoot whoever you want, chances are a rat corp would love to have you.
Crosswise, you could join a corp the only attacks Caldari, or is determined to conquer a section of null sec. Also, nothing saying you can't change your mind after six months and fight the other guys.
It seems the financial is the biggest question coming. Who pays us and how is cost determined? If we get ~150k per fight,and there are twelve mercs, what eve corp is gonna shell out near 2 mill just for some mercs to go pew pew each other.
Makes me think we're currently seeing a stop gap fix to test the games market and advanced gear. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 17:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Forgive me for this, but it might be worth pointing out for the new peeps that you won't be locked into a corp in any way. You're a totally free agent and can quit your corp at any time, go back to an NPC corp whenever you want, and join any other corp at any point in the future.
I'm thinking the biggest thing to be aware of for recent immigrants new to New Eden is Standings. These aren't part of the beta yet and tbh we don't know for sure how CCP is going to implement standings for DUST mercs. I'm tempted to say they will have to work exactly like they do in EVE for pod pilots, but at this point it's just speculation.
Standings matter to you because they are a measure of how much the various NPC governments(Minmatar, Caldari, Gallente, Ammar, plus sub-factions and all the pirate factions, even the Jovians) love or hate you. Your standings with a faction also affect your standings with all the NPC corporations that are part of that faction. If you're well loved by a faction you might get various bonuses in their space or stations, if you're hated you might be kill-on-sight by powerful NPC drones, or denied access to stations or services.
If you let your standings drop too low with factions by engaging in piracy or Factional Warfare it could limit your choices in the future, or require you to do a hella lotta work to dig yourself out of a standings hole.
I'm just mentioning this to maybe save some peeps time and trouble. The punchline is make sure you know how standings work before you join a FW corp. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 18:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
If standings work just like EVE's, and all the corps that are in factional warfare might have to wait for the merc to grind up standings
Which, could be a pain, having to do missions (PvE) or PvP instant battle contracts for the faction till standings are good enough with the Factions to join into the corp that is doing FW.
Cause currently if 1 member joins into a corp, and his/her standings are too low and then makes the corps average too low to fight in FW, it drags the whole corp out. |
WT Sherman
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 18:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
My 2 cents worth is that true mercs wouldn't have faction standings due to the fact that they are mercs and willing to work for either side depending on which one pays the best. In my opinion that is the way it should be with the best corps and alliances getting top dollar to defend/attack in any contract. Of course with the meta game of EVE, the EVE corps will want to hire mercs that they can reasonably be assured will fight for them to the last man rather than just defend their "safe" spawn point and try not to die too often to keep their K/D ratio up.
It will all come down to equal portions of money and ego. I personally had hoped that the alliance blobs wouldn't have invaded DUST till after we had been in the game for a while but sadly that doesn't seem to be the case. Those DUST corps with the most isk backing (read alliance here) and the biggest ego running it are going to be the most successful. Most of the truly successful corps and alliances in EVE were run by a single person who had the drive (and no real life) to give bieth to something that is successful and known through out the EVE universe.
A DUST corp that has enough players to field a full 24 man team, or however many it ends up being, will be limiting themselves to the contracts they will want to take by being in an alliance. EVE corps will not want DUST corps from the same alliance taking both sides of a contract. As I have said in other posts that touch on this subject, I would have rather seen DUST without large alliances so that it would have truly been best corp against best corp and not blob against blob. |
Zion Shad
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
1620
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 20:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dust in Faction Warfare |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 22:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
So Standings and Loyalty points for Dust players are my remaining questions.
War Points could be how LP for a battle would be distributed to all parties. just saying |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 23:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:So Standings and Loyalty points for Dust players are my remaining questions. War Points could be how LP for a battle would be distributed to all parties. just saying CCP made it clear in irc that we will not be restricted by loyalty points and there will not be any disadvantages for jumping from faction to faction ,but [CCP]Nullarbor did mention that they are thinking about adding benefits for players who stay loyal to a particular faction. |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
421
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 00:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
It would be nice to get some more info on how a mercs Standings will affect the corp standings. Maybe it will just be the same as an EVE pilots contribution.
It would be nice to know if the corp factors the EVE pilot and the Mercs standings in equally, or if EVE pilots standings made a slightly more significant impact on the corp standings.
I know in EVE there is no restrictions that prevent you from working for friends of the other side and lowering your standings. You could then hurt that corps standings if they were already low, which hopefully they were not. Will this be the same in DUST? Will groups of DUST mercs taking contracts for a group they do not know end up lowering their standings, and possibly forcing their corp/alliance out of the FW group they had joined? |
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