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Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
836
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 23:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I have seen a lot of things that don't seem to add up in this game, and they're so obvious I'm surprised no one has mentioned them before. WHY is it that when an enemy starts a hack, I have the ability to stop it, but it takes twice as long (making me vulnerable twice as long) but it doesn't even give me any points? I can just as easily wait, hack it without leaving myself exposed twice as long, and gain a +100 for doing it. The same can be said for nanite injectors. A militia nanite injector costs me nothing, 0 ISK and brings my team-mates back to life with 20% and gives me 60 points for doing it. And I COULD spend 25,000 more ISK on a proto nanite injector to bring team-mates back with 80% health and get the SAME point bonus, but why would I when I can get more points for repairing my 20% team-mates with the repair tool. Why are we given the option to buy "stable" variants of equipment for increased ISK that supposedly use less CPU/PG when, in fact, they don't? This is practically the definition of backwards logic. Fix this CCP. |
Villore Isu
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
115
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 23:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:The same can be said for nanite injectors. A militia nanite injector costs me nothing, 0 ISK and brings my team-mates back to life with 20% and gives me 60 points for doing it. And I COULD spend 25,000 more ISK on a proto nanite injector to bring team-mates back with 80% health and get the SAME point bonus, but why would I when I can get more points for repairing my 20% team-mates with the repair tool. This is practically the definition of backwards logic. Fix this CCP. Backwards Logi you might even say...
Sorry, but yeah hopefully things like this will be fixed for launch (or even better in the next build) |
Telemachus AREMNi
11
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Posted - 2012.09.17 23:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Good point bro +1 |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 23:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Same with the "stable" equipment variants that cost more but take up the same pg/cpu |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
836
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 23:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Same with the "stable" equipment variants that cost more but take up the same pg/cpu
Adding it to OP now... |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.09.17 23:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Same with the "stable" equipment variants that cost more but take up the same pg/cpu Adding it to OP now... And heavies not able to carry equipment after loosing so many pounds (as in getting nerfed) |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 23:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Because you're not supposed to be able to stop a hack by yourself in time, you should need multiple people to do it. However it should still award points.
As for nanite injectors, I suppose the idea is that the added benefit of your teammates having more survivability is your reward. Honestly though carry a militia nanite injector and then use a repair tool to top off their armor, better points that way. The better injectors are more to be able to pick people up with higher health on the run if you dont have time to repair them. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 23:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Because you're not supposed to be able to stop a hack by yourself in time, you should need multiple people to do it. However it should still award points.
As for nanite injectors, I suppose the idea is that the added benefit of your teammates having more survivability is your reward. Honestly though carry a militia nanite injector and then use a repair tool to top off their armor, better points that way. The better injectors are more to be able to pick people up with higher health on the run if you dont have time to repair them.
Says who other than you? It was hacked in a short time so it should go vice versa |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 00:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:So I have seen a lot of things that don't seem to add up in this game, and they're so obvious I'm surprised no one has mentioned them before. WHY is it that when an enemy starts a hack, I have the ability to stop it, but it takes twice as long (making me vulnerable twice as long) but it doesn't even give me any points? I can just as easily wait, hack it without leaving myself exposed twice as long, and gain a +100 for doing it. The same can be said for nanite injectors. A militia nanite injector costs me nothing, 0 ISK and brings my team-mates back to life with 20% and gives me 60 points for doing it. And I COULD spend 25,000 more ISK on a proto nanite injector to bring team-mates back with 80% health and get the SAME point bonus, but why would I when I can get more points for repairing my 20% team-mates with the repair tool. Why are we given the option to buy "stable" variants of equipment for increased ISK that supposedly use less CPU/PG when, in fact, they don't? This is practically the definition of backwards logic. Fix this CCP.
Counter hacking could easily give Hack Assist points while still maintaining the benifit of stopping that hack (i.e. reduced MCC damage). As for Injectors, I see no reason why the extra WarPoints for the additional amount healed shouldn't be added to the value received upon revive. As to the "stable" versions, that I've got nothing. In theory it sounds like they should have more CPU/PG, but maybe there's a balance issue. Even so it sounds like they either need their stats or their descriptions to be updated.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 00:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Because you're not supposed to be able to stop a hack by yourself in time, you should need multiple people to do it. However it should still award points.
As for nanite injectors, I suppose the idea is that the added benefit of your teammates having more survivability is your reward. Honestly though carry a militia nanite injector and then use a repair tool to top off their armor, better points that way. The better injectors are more to be able to pick people up with higher health on the run if you dont have time to repair them. Says who other than you? It was hacked in a short time so it should go vice versa
If you're trying to stop a hack, your entire team can spawn on top of the objective...attackers have to work with what they've got. As a defender you have a massive advantage over the attackers at an objective, the longer hack time equalizes the field a bit. |
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.09.18 00:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:So I have seen a lot of things that don't seem to add up in this game, and they're so obvious I'm surprised no one has mentioned them before. WHY is it that when an enemy starts a hack, I have the ability to stop it, but it takes twice as long (making me vulnerable twice as long) but it doesn't even give me any points? I can just as easily wait, hack it without leaving myself exposed twice as long, and gain a +100 for doing it. The same can be said for nanite injectors. A militia nanite injector costs me nothing, 0 ISK and brings my team-mates back to life with 20% and gives me 60 points for doing it. And I COULD spend 25,000 more ISK on a proto nanite injector to bring team-mates back with 80% health and get the SAME point bonus, but why would I when I can get more points for repairing my 20% team-mates with the repair tool. Why are we given the option to buy "stable" variants of equipment for increased ISK that supposedly use less CPU/PG when, in fact, they don't? This is practically the definition of backwards logic. Fix this CCP. I think Nanite Injectors would be better served to be like the ones in Templar One, which were usable on yourself and others, and you could only carry a limited supply of them. Equipment is replenished by Nanohives, and most maps have at least one supply depot, so the limited number wouldn't really be that much of a disadvantage, and since you can't repair yourself with a repair tool, it would provide additional incentive to train up for the better ones. As an added bonus, it would give armor-tankers the ability to almost instantly repair the majority of their armor damage, thereby removing some of the disadvantage they currently have versus shield-tanked suits. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
931
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 00:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nantie injectors would be better if they ere limited use again, just like the what they use to be in the Pre E3 build.
I mean, Who the hell can carry an infinite amount of nantie injects on them? That syringe is going to run our of nanites at some point. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 00:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Nantie injectors would be better if they ere limited use again, just like the what they use to be in the Pre E3 build.
I mean, Who the hell can carry an infinite amount of nantie injects on them? That syringe is going to run our of nanites at some point.
Whats the point? 90% of people who carry them don't even use them. lol |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 00:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Because you're not supposed to be able to stop a hack by yourself in time, you should need multiple people to do it. However it should still award points.
As for nanite injectors, I suppose the idea is that the added benefit of your teammates having more survivability is your reward. Honestly though carry a militia nanite injector and then use a repair tool to top off their armor, better points that way. The better injectors are more to be able to pick people up with higher health on the run if you dont have time to repair them. Says who other than you? It was hacked in a short time so it should go vice versa If you're trying to stop a hack, your entire team can spawn on top of the objective...attackers have to work with what they've got. As a defender you have a massive advantage over the attackers at an objective, the longer hack time equalizes the field a bit. In the event my entire team or most of it spawns there all other objectives will be taken |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 00:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Because you're not supposed to be able to stop a hack by yourself in time, you should need multiple people to do it. However it should still award points.
As for nanite injectors, I suppose the idea is that the added benefit of your teammates having more survivability is your reward. Honestly though carry a militia nanite injector and then use a repair tool to top off their armor, better points that way. The better injectors are more to be able to pick people up with higher health on the run if you dont have time to repair them. Says who other than you? It was hacked in a short time so it should go vice versa If you're trying to stop a hack, your entire team can spawn on top of the objective...attackers have to work with what they've got. As a defender you have a massive advantage over the attackers at an objective, the longer hack time equalizes the field a bit. In the event my entire team or most of it spawns there all other objectives will be taken
I think again, you're missing my point. Defenders have an advantage, therefor the longer de-hack time helps negate that slightly so that attackers have more of a fighting chance to actually take the objective. If defenders could take back hacks in progress at the same speed as starting the hack, you would have a severe imbalance in which defenders have the upper hand. This is afterall one of the reasons it was changed from the previous format of Skirmish. |
Garl Dravon
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 00:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Because you're not supposed to be able to stop a hack by yourself in time, you should need multiple people to do it. However it should still award points.
As for nanite injectors, I suppose the idea is that the added benefit of your teammates having more survivability is your reward. Honestly though carry a militia nanite injector and then use a repair tool to top off their armor, better points that way. The better injectors are more to be able to pick people up with higher health on the run if you dont have time to repair them. Says who other than you? It was hacked in a short time so it should go vice versa If you're trying to stop a hack, your entire team can spawn on top of the objective...attackers have to work with what they've got. As a defender you have a massive advantage over the attackers at an objective, the longer hack time equalizes the field a bit. In the event my entire team or most of it spawns there all other objectives will be taken I think again, you're missing my point. Defenders have an advantage, therefor the longer de-hack time helps negate that slightly so that attackers have more of a fighting chance to actually take the objective. If defenders could take back hacks in progress at the same speed as starting the hack, you would have a severe imbalance in which defenders have the upper hand. This is afterall one of the reasons it was changed from the previous format of Skirmish.
I think you made things a little confusing, Pokey. What you're trying to say is that defenders can spawn - literally - on top of an objective which is being hacked, and kill everything there before hacking it back easily, so it shouldn't matter that it takes longer.
The confusing part, Pokey, is that you're describing "teamwork". You really should try harder to use words your audience knows. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 00:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Garl Dravon wrote:
I think you made things a little confusing, Pokey. What you're trying to say is that defenders can spawn - literally - on top of an objective which is being hacked, and kill everything there before hacking it back easily, so it shouldn't matter that it takes longer.
The confusing part, Pokey, is that you're describing "teamwork". You really should try harder to use words your audience knows.
****, I forgot that word again didn't I? I gotta stop using complicated concepts like that so much. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
425
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 01:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:So I have seen a lot of things that don't seem to add up in this game, and they're so obvious I'm surprised no one has mentioned them before. WHY is it that when an enemy starts a hack, I have the ability to stop it, but it takes twice as long (making me vulnerable twice as long) but it doesn't even give me any points? I can just as easily wait, hack it without leaving myself exposed twice as long, and gain a +100 for doing it. The same can be said for nanite injectors. A militia nanite injector costs me nothing, 0 ISK and brings my team-mates back to life with 20% and gives me 60 points for doing it. And I COULD spend 25,000 more ISK on a proto nanite injector to bring team-mates back with 80% health and get the SAME point bonus, but why would I when I can get more points for repairing my 20% team-mates with the repair tool. Why are we given the option to buy "stable" variants of equipment for increased ISK that supposedly use less CPU/PG when, in fact, they don't? This is practically the definition of backwards logic. Fix this CCP.
^^^
Agreed. We should be able to stop a hack, and maybe get 50pts? Half the time, I run up to a letter, only to see teammates hanging out waiting for it to be captured, so THEN they can retake.
Also, good point on the injectors. Perhaps +20pts for a 20% revive, 80pts for a 80% revive, etc. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 01:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
The random spawning is one thing I hate about this game. I like it better when there is a spawn building that is protected from intruders inside, but can be hacked outside. Allows you to at least spawn and get outside before dying. Random spawning from thin air is just... Ugh... |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 01:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
You've got some good points, you should have put this in the feedback area though. |
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 01:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:The random spawning is one thing I hate about this game. I like it better when there is a spawn building that is protected from intruders inside, but can be hacked outside. Allows you to at least spawn and get outside before dying. Random spawning from thin air is just... Ugh...
what happens if u inside and it gets hacked insta death? :P |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 02:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:The random spawning is one thing I hate about this game. I like it better when there is a spawn building that is protected from intruders inside, but can be hacked outside. Allows you to at least spawn and get outside before dying. Random spawning from thin air is just... Ugh... what happens if u inside and it gets hacked insta death? :P
That would be funny and terrible all at once. I would say it gives you 10 seconds to leave before something evil kills you brutally... A giant kitten? Idk. I am sure somethin could be figured out. Maybe autoturrets kill you or something. |
Lighting Man
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 02:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
I would like to add to this thread that the objective once this goes live and is hooked into EVE is not to lose the MCC or the battle. Once ground units are deployed you will be joining a battle over resources that spans both the planet and what ever is orbiting the planet. So while the modules and injectors may not be all that you think they should be, when you join a corp and are in the middle of a war, you will want the better ones so that your corp and team can hold those resources. If you have not played EVE I suggest If you can get the free trial and see how the sandbox works in space, because we will be a part of that sandbox soon enough. One key to being successful in EVE is the team work of a corp and the contributions made by each member. So allowing the null cannon to be hacked just to rehack it sounds like a good way to make some rewards but bad for the team.
Also find a logistics that can drop an uplink to give you better spawn points. I often use my logistics build as my first drop in so I can drop an uplink to give my team a fixed point to spawn in, if it gets spawn camped I will use the random and hope to get a spawn point that I can drop another.
As far as the nanite injectors being infinite, I like the idea seeing that you are vulnerable when you are using it. I use mine all the time to revive team mates and I would hate to leave one on the ground because I only had 3 uses of it. Another note is that if someone is revived I believe that once they die again they automatically respawn, using one clone. Plus once you move out of militia gear every time you die you use one of each piece of equipment, so getting a nanite injection will also save isk and maybe even turn the tide.
Remember that this is beta and that I am sure some of the rewards will be adjusted once it goes live, so maybe you will only get +20 for the 20% injector. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 03:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lighting Man wrote: Remember that this is beta and that I am sure some of the rewards will be adjusted once it goes live, so maybe you will only get +20 for the 20% injector.
This would work as well, the main point for me is to avoid rewarding less effective play (i.e. reviving your teammates in a weaker condition, or letting them die to rev rather than repping them) over more effective play (repping as much as you're able and using the best injectors you can fit). Otherwise the higher gear and skills become devalued and functionally pointless (CCP is addressing this very problem presently in the EVE "tiericide" ship rebalance).
Your point about the sandbox is well made and that will be a more important factor when Dust is live, however as long as WarPoints lead to increased SkilPoints balancing when and how they're awarded against all other WP awards remains important. Just think what it would be like in EVE if you were awarded extra SkillPoints for every KillMail. It's already less common to find a eWar or Logi for fleets than it is to find a heavy DPS brawler or sniper fit. For that matter even tackles are slightly harder to come by than a DPS build. If you gave the KillMail as SP award as well? Same story in Dust, if there are any rewards handed out then the rewards for each role must be commensurate with the others else that role may as well not be included in the game for it will languish unused in any event. (I'm sure there are some once Corp v Corp goes live in 0.0 Sec,maybe even in FW in Low Sec, who would use support roles anyway but it would require them to either level up in something else or be carried by their corp and what's the value of inflecting either of these on any of the battlefield roles?
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EVICER
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 03:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:So I have seen a lot of things that don't seem to add up in this game, and they're so obvious I'm surprised no one has mentioned them before. WHY is it that when an enemy starts a hack, I have the ability to stop it, but it takes twice as long (making me vulnerable twice as long) but it doesn't even give me any points? I can just as easily wait, hack it without leaving myself exposed twice as long, and gain a +100 for doing it. The same can be said for nanite injectors. A militia nanite injector costs me nothing, 0 ISK and brings my team-mates back to life with 20% and gives me 60 points for doing it. And I COULD spend 25,000 more ISK on a proto nanite injector to bring team-mates back with 80% health and get the SAME point bonus, but why would I when I can get more points for repairing my 20% team-mates with the repair tool. Why are we given the option to buy "stable" variants of equipment for increased ISK that supposedly use less CPU/PG when, in fact, they don't? This is practically the definition of backwards logic. Fix this CCP. I would like to add to this.in the last build i used to carry around repairing nano hives.....these are STILL NOT GIVING TEAM HEALS. edit from here down and not giving any war points for the carrier therefore why pay for them or waste your time with the skill set...this gives nothing to the player trying to help his team succeed. |
Seran Jinkar
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
214
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 06:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
+1 to EVICER! I know it from the last build and it stopped me from skilling the nanohives up. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 03:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
EVICER wrote:Logi Bro wrote:So I have seen a lot of things that don't seem to add up in this game, and they're so obvious I'm surprised no one has mentioned them before. WHY is it that when an enemy starts a hack, I have the ability to stop it, but it takes twice as long (making me vulnerable twice as long) but it doesn't even give me any points? I can just as easily wait, hack it without leaving myself exposed twice as long, and gain a +100 for doing it. The same can be said for nanite injectors. A militia nanite injector costs me nothing, 0 ISK and brings my team-mates back to life with 20% and gives me 60 points for doing it. And I COULD spend 25,000 more ISK on a proto nanite injector to bring team-mates back with 80% health and get the SAME point bonus, but why would I when I can get more points for repairing my 20% team-mates with the repair tool. Why are we given the option to buy "stable" variants of equipment for increased ISK that supposedly use less CPU/PG when, in fact, they don't? This is practically the definition of backwards logic. Fix this CCP. I would like to add to this.in the last build i used to carry around repairing nano hives.....these are STILL NOT GIVING TEAM HEALS. edit from here down and not giving any war points for the carrier therefore why pay for them or waste your time with the skill set...this gives nothing to the player trying to help his team succeed. +1
I wasn't aware of this and have been skilling up my Logi. Totally needs a fix. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 21:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
A couple related threads, both still relevant/active as of Codex deployment.
Revive Bounty https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=36111&find=unread
[Suggestion] Nanohive (R) Idea to make them identifiable https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=37890&find=unread |
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