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counter logic
BetaMax.
42
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Posted - 2012.09.14 19:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok so the hot topic of every build has usually boiled down to tanks vs infantry. I think we are looking at this the entirely wrong way, we need to look at it as Tanks AND Infantry. How can we make game play that promotes tanks and infantry working together rather than trying to balance how they fight each other.
Only going after the balance of tanks vs infantry is the wrong thing to do. The reason I say this is because, fits will constantly change causing new dynamic to the game and potentially upsetting this balance, new mods will be added to infantry and vehicles in new patches constantly upsetting the numbers game we are currently playing with tank vs infantry combat. Leading to this marry go round of nerf/buffing we are doing every build. Needless to say there has not been a build yet where the majority of players have been happy with infantry vs tank combat. If we continue on the road of only trying to balance the situation of infantry player vs tank player we will get a game that is just World of Tanks mashed together with Counter-Strike.
My take on the problem is that we need to work on how to get tanks and infantry working together rather than how to balance the way they fight. I am not saying forget balancing all together but to focus more on how they play together rather than against each other. One big problem I see is that tanks run around the battlefield as if infantry are just not needed. Start taking heat? Just run away. See a bunch of infantry with no AV? Just plow through them and continue on your rampage. Non AV infantry players just see them as marauding entities that they must avoid at all cost. When a tank is on a non AV infantry players team it is either just something to hop into if there's a turret open and ***** points. If no slots open just kind of ignore it completely. There is no cohesion between non av infantry and tank play. We need to change this dynamic to make tanks and infantry working together a more appealing strategy.
There are a few things that people will immediately call for when faced with this issue, it is usually a combination of AV nerf/buff and tank speed or hp nerf/buff. Some of the ideas I have seen on the forums are close but not quite taking enough into account and always upset some other balance in the process. Lets focus on cohesion not balance.
A few ideas I have would include, giving infantry the ability to immobilize tanks for a short period of time. With equipment such as web grenades or scrambling mines or something anything to stop a tank dead in its tracks long enough to apply damage and kill it. Now this seems like a broken thing at first, but what it will do is make tank drivers think twice about going off alone and just merry go rounding around the battlefield raping infantry at every turn and running from all the AV they see. A tank that has infantry supporting it would be able to survive such an attack because of course the AV infantry would be killed by the non av infantry supporting the tank. Well, would hopefully do so. Some things would have to change along with this of course such as maybe a slight boost to tank hp or a reduction in forge gun range, etc. The main idea here is to give infantry a way to stop a tank or any other vehicle in its tracks, creating a situation were a tank NEEDS allied infantry to help it. Changing the dynamic of infantry and vehicle combat not just the numbers.
discuss and brainstorm |
Cyn Bruin
90
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Posted - 2012.09.14 19:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Agree with alot of points. I understand CCP wants to get the most data they can in a short amount of time. I guess I'm of the old school of adjust one variable and see how that works and then tweak from it. Not adjust a bunch and see what can be gleened from all sets.
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counter logic
BetaMax.
42
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Needs shameless bump
#success |
vint trebble
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Proxy mines would be outrageous. I don't know if I like the idea of being able to stop a tank dead in it's tracks. A good AV player can do that now anyway. But a speed reduction grenade would be perfect. I have no doubts that we will get to see improvements like this closer to release. I'd like to point out that this is very much still a work in progress, and with that I know a gaming studio wants to have things to work on for later content. It'll be interesting to see things like how Dust 514 and Eve Online are going to operate together. What sort of progression metagames we will be introduced to. How the political process will work. Strict rivalries between corps, and eve players giving Arial support to dust players.
The list goes on and on and on and on. My point being CCP has given us a lot to get excited about, perhaps beating a dead horse (The tank argument) isn't the way to go about this. Can we please move on to something more substantial? |
Supercakers
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
I heard there are going to be some kind of webbing grenades/mines, something like that? Anything like the EMP av mines from Battlefield 2142 would be great. You could set up mined areas on roads to deny them to vehicles or to make them proceed cautiously or they had to have infantry clear the road for them. EMP mines disabled vehicles for a few seconds, didn't damage them but you couldn't target, fire, or move for maybe.. 4-5 seconds or so if you ran over one. APC's and other vehicles couldn't just run around at will at full speed, or took a high risk of hitting all sorts of mines alll the time.
On the subject of mines, what about there being AV mines, which only infantry can remove, like with a repair tool. Another incentive for people to go Logi, another way to get some more WP for a mostly passive role if they choose to go the injector/repair/supply route. Just a thought.
Also as an aside, I don't think tanks need any more speed than they have now, they move plenty quick.. |
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