DUST Search - AV vs Dropships - Was too powerful, now will be worse

Needless Sacermendor wrote:

Darky SI wrote:

Needless Sacermendor wrote:

You can't compare a half mil dropship with a 12k weapon !!! Do you think that weapon floats round on a cloud and shoots at you ?

i meant performance/balance not isk, because you can't balance AV weapons without taking into accounts that DS are not in the same par with tanks, if you buff them too much they might be balanced with tanks but will slaughter DS and if you nerf them to balance with DS they will be useless against tanks

Damn I lost my reply ... basically said you should have left the isk out of the equation cos it sounded like you were saying he's only spending 12k to kill my 500k
Then went on to say the rest is all valid ... I've been saying the same in other threads before I read this one.
You have to agree the HAV wasn't working as intended to they've addressed it ... I'm sure they know it will knock on to the other vehicles and I'm sure they're aware the dropship doesn't get used and the LAV pretty much only sees the starter or free fittings. So as someone said, next on the list will be dropships and LAVs. Chaff and target disruption when you have a working cockpit lock on warning will go a long way and other ideas too, but they don't like to just dump extra hp on things, though they will if it comes to it.

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Lazarus Solo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 66	Posted - 2012.09.14 15:28:00 - [1] - Quote Alright, so people have been complaining about AV being too weak. I'd like to point out that forges and swarms are not only cheap, but very effective considering what you spend. Too effective, and the new hot "fix" is going to make that worse. People complain because they struggle to take out tanks, so fine, nerf them, like you have. People don't discuss AV vs drop ships. AV is too powerful against them. A forge gun costing 12K can dish out significant damage to one, and with the forge guns now dealing more damage along with swarms, and having longer range, AV is going to be a nightmare for us pilots spending in excess of half a million on a drop ship. You have no idea of the challenge to keep one of these things airborne with everyone using prototype swarms and forges and now it's going to be ridiculously hard.
EnIgMa99 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 219	Posted - 2012.09.14 15:32:00 - [2] - Quote Lazarus Solo wrote: Alright, so people have been complaining about AV being too weak. I'd like to point out that forges and swarms are not only cheap, but very effective considering what you spend. Too effective, and the new hot "fix" is going to make that worse. People complain because they struggle to take out tanks, so fine, nerf them, like you have. People don't discuss AV vs drop ships. AV is too powerful against them. A forge gun costing 12K can dish out significant damage to one, and with the forge guns now dealing more damage along with swarms, and having longer range, AV is going to be a nightmare for us pilots spending in excess of half a million on a drop ship. You have no idea of the challenge to keep one of these things airborne with everyone using prototype swarms and forges and now it's going to be ridiculously hard. this +1
Darky SI 232	Posted - 2012.09.14 15:39:00 - [3] - Quote i think they are trying to find a perfect balance between A and B then balance C according A= Tanks B= AV weapons C= Dropships Maybe they will buff DS so they can tolerate the new AV weapons
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.09.14 15:43:00 - [4] - Quote You can't compare a half mil dropship with a 12k weapon !!! Do you think that weapon floats round on a cloud and shoots at you ?
Darky SI 232	Posted - 2012.09.14 15:45:00 - [5] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: You can't compare a half mil dropship with a 12k weapon !!! Do you think that weapon floats round on a cloud and shoots at you ? i meant performance/balance not isk, because you can't balance AV weapons without taking into accounts that DS are not in the same par with tanks, if you buff them too much they might be balanced with tanks but will slaughter DS and if you nerf them to balance with DS they will be useless against tanks
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.14 15:46:00 - [6] - Quote Chaff and flares your my only hope .
Soleire 90	Posted - 2012.09.14 15:51:00 - [7] - Quote Swarms need some limitations, Dropships and LAVs need to be able to outrun them via afterburners, turning corners, chaff, twisty loops and the such, there also needs to be a module that warns you when you are locked in. A few of these features are going to be introduced soonish. Swarm Launchers also need some sort of fuel limitation on their swarm volleys. I've seen awesome pilots looping away from volleys, going high and droping low to evade them, but they only defense they have right now is the terrain, its just wrong for a missile to chase them for over a minute. Its ok for the Forge guns to absolutely obliterate both these vehicule types as its harder to aim and its the gunner's responsability to take them out from a safe distance or at the very least signal them.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1903	Posted - 2012.09.14 15:52:00 - [8] - Quote Yea, piloting a DS was already pretty unforgiving, the nerf to shield amps and the buff to swarms and forges is going to make things...interesting...lol. Stupid tanks >_<
843 pano 843 Boot Camp 200	Posted - 2012.09.14 15:58:00 - [9] - Quote I'll only be flying my viper now, my myron is now mothballed. Cost vs. reward just isn't there right now.
Raynor Ragna 266	Posted - 2012.09.14 16:10:00 - [10] - Quote Yeah. Dropships need something more to be slightly survivable. They are already easy targets for forge guns and Swarms due to them being in the air and having little cover.

Lazarus Solo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 66	Posted - 2012.09.14 16:22:00 - [11] - Quote I can confirm Dropships are now ludicrously underpowered. 15% for the highest shield resistance amplifiers? Seriously? Dropships are sitting ducks now, the amount of damage AV and installations now deal is beyond a joke. No more drop ships for me. I am a very good pilot, but there is absolutely nothing I can do against this. I am guaranteed to lose my drop ship if I call it in.
HeavySteelB52 Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.09.14 16:23:00 - [12] - Quote Just don't see how dropships get thrown around so bad by swarm missiles, if you put fireworks around and on a small brick and light them off the brick dosent move or if it does its not much. Sure it might have damage but it won't be in the neighbors yard lol.
Brumae Verres 24	Posted - 2012.09.14 16:28:00 - [13] - Quote If I may. Most people use the drop ship as an aerial weapon platform. It kinda works for this, and with the right team works pretty well, but that's not the purpose the drop ship was designed for. Six passenger slots only two of which get guns... The drop ship is designed for a quick run to a point, drop off four passenger to take said point providing limited over while the team gets into position, and than buzz out of there where it can conceivably repair itself. You can race a Mack truck. You can also pull a trailer with an AMC Grimlin. It just doesn't really work.
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.09.14 16:39:00 - [14] - Quote Darky SI wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: You can't compare a half mil dropship with a 12k weapon !!! Do you think that weapon floats round on a cloud and shoots at you ? i meant performance/balance not isk, because you can't balance AV weapons without taking into accounts that DS are not in the same par with tanks, if you buff them too much they might be balanced with tanks but will slaughter DS and if you nerf them to balance with DS they will be useless against tanks Damn I lost my reply ... basically said you should have left the isk out of the equation cos it sounded like you were saying he's only spending 12k to kill my 500k Then went on to say the rest is all valid ... I've been saying the same in other threads before I read this one. You have to agree the HAV wasn't working as intended to they've addressed it ... I'm sure they know it will knock on to the other vehicles and I'm sure they're aware the dropship doesn't get used and the LAV pretty much only sees the starter or free fittings. So as someone said, next on the list will be dropships and LAVs. Chaff and target disruption when you have a working cockpit lock on warning will go a long way and other ideas too, but they don't like to just dump extra hp on things, though they will if it comes to it.
Lazarus Solo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 66	Posted - 2012.09.14 16:50:00 - [15] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Darky SI wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: You can't compare a half mil dropship with a 12k weapon !!! Do you think that weapon floats round on a cloud and shoots at you ? i meant performance/balance not isk, because you can't balance AV weapons without taking into accounts that DS are not in the same par with tanks, if you buff them too much they might be balanced with tanks but will slaughter DS and if you nerf them to balance with DS they will be useless against tanks Damn I lost my reply ... basically said you should have left the isk out of the equation cos it sounded like you were saying he's only spending 12k to kill my 500k Then went on to say the rest is all valid ... I've been saying the same in other threads before I read this one. You have to agree the HAV wasn't working as intended to they've addressed it ... I'm sure they know it will knock on to the other vehicles and I'm sure they're aware the dropship doesn't get used and the LAV pretty much only sees the starter or free fittings. So as someone said, next on the list will be dropships and LAVs. Chaff and target disruption when you have a working cockpit lock on warning will go a long way and other ideas too, but they don't like to just dump extra hp on things, though they will if it comes to it. They need to take the damage back from AV and give us flares. Whilst they are at it, they could also give us points for using the mobile CRU and picking up/dropping off passengers.
Darky SI 232	Posted - 2012.09.14 17:04:00 - [16] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Darky SI wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: You can't compare a half mil dropship with a 12k weapon !!! Do you think that weapon floats round on a cloud and shoots at you ? i meant performance/balance not isk, because you can't balance AV weapons without taking into accounts that DS are not in the same par with tanks, if you buff them too much they might be balanced with tanks but will slaughter DS and if you nerf them to balance with DS they will be useless against tanks Damn I lost my reply ... basically said you should have left the isk out of the equation cos it sounded like you were saying he's only spending 12k to kill my 500k Then went on to say the rest is all valid ... I've been saying the same in other threads before I read this one. You have to agree the HAV wasn't working as intended to they've addressed it ... I'm sure they know it will knock on to the other vehicles and I'm sure they're aware the dropship doesn't get used and the LAV pretty much only sees the starter or free fittings. So as someone said, next on the list will be dropships and LAVs. Chaff and target disruption when you have a working cockpit lock on warning will go a long way and other ideas too, but they don't like to just dump extra hp on things, though they will if it comes to it. Exactly! (My bad English causes misunderstanding sometimes)
HeavySteelB52 Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.09.14 17:22:00 - [17] - Quote But no one is going to get on a dropship if they see how easy it is getting knocked around like a ragedoll in an abusive relationship in the air.
Kaeralli Sturmovos KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 117	Posted - 2012.09.14 17:45:00 - [18] - Quote staying stationary in the air or camping up high wont help anything except get you shot down. a DS should be able to out maneuver swarm launcher and forge is only deadly if you can get your shot on target. theres only a handful of people ive seen who can really fily a DS around for the past 2 builds
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.09.14 17:47:00 - [19] - Quote damage wise I have to agree.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.09.14 17:54:00 - [20] - Quote I had seen more dropships about lately, it seemed ppl were getting used to them and they were being useful Now they are free pts

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 903	Posted - 2012.09.14 18:00:00 - [21] - Quote Armor plates help to stabilize the dropship against swarms I found. Handeling isn't affected to much, but acceleration takes a hit.
HeavySteelB52 Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.09.14 18:02:00 - [22] - Quote What about staying stationary while the gunners provide cover fire while the passengers secure the objective, is an appropriate time for being stationary for a short time and not worry about getting thrown around? A dripship should be able to take hits while not being thrown around.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 903	Posted - 2012.09.14 18:13:00 - [23] - Quote Stationary and taking fire in a dropship = dead dropship. I'll pull out my dropship today and see how it goes. Before the hotfix I could take multiple proto swarm vollies without issue. A dropship should ALWAYS be on the move. Personally, I think that they didn't need to debuff vehicle hp mods AND buff AV at the same time.
HeavySteelB52 Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.09.14 18:54:00 - [24] - Quote Dropship should be able to be stationary for seconds like 10 or so for proper and safe passengers drop off I think or they will scattered all over the place. I agree they should be on the move but the should still be able to take a few hits while the are dropping off.
Azmode Deamus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2012.09.14 20:57:00 - [25] - Quote Lazarus Solo wrote: Alright, so people have been complaining about AV being too weak. I'd like to point out that forges and swarms are not only cheap, but very effective considering what you spend. Too effective, and the new hot "fix" is going to make that worse. People complain because they struggle to take out tanks, so fine, nerf them, like you have. People don't discuss AV vs drop ships. AV is too powerful against them. A forge gun costing 12K can dish out significant damage to one, and with the forge guns now dealing more damage along with swarms, and having longer range, AV is going to be a nightmare for us pilots spending in excess of half a million on a drop ship. You have no idea of the challenge to keep one of these things airborne with everyone using prototype swarms and forges and now it's going to be ridiculously hard. Excuse me? The difference is that you can't just equip a swarm and expect to shoot down any enemy you see. Sure, you can go AV, but then you're very vulnerable to any type of enemy infantry. The same thing cannot be said for dropships. You can dish out damage to anyone and get around the map with a squad in tow. Where as the AV heavy is literally a sitting duck without back up... The dropship is only vulnerable to anti vehicle weapons. My scout cannot kill a dropship running 100m into the sky with a scrambler pistol or a sniper rifle... Also - a prototype suit load out costs as much as 500,000isk and is just as vulnerable to a newb with a militia assault rifle a any other foe. So please, stop being so biased. I'm not saying DS are fine - I Think they need more purpose and having higher HP values would go a long way. However you're only comparing apples to apples when instead you should be comparing nuts to male testies.. Sure, both are wrinkly and have a white center. However, testic les are very vulnerable to anything you smash against them where nuts need a nut cracker to break apart. hohoho!
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.14 21:07:00 - [26] - Quote Dropships aren't being used correctly and that is why there are problems. Dropships are equivalent to LAV's, but with larger capacities. They are NOT gunships. Once the gunships turn up, we're all going to want a Dropship taxi to get to the objective. Using a Dropship in ambush, should result in it's swift death. Just like tanks. Skirmish maps have redzones. Dropships can make excellent use of these...fly home, regain shields, pick up troops fly into thee hotzone.


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