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Goliath Raven
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
80
   |
Posted - 2012.09.19 18:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
xAckie wrote:
This isn't a dig but I noticed in an earlier post you mentioned the cost of a tank being 1.5m . That seems very low to me for a 'game changer' (admittedly we dont have a player market so who knows what the price will be), basically you can earn a new tank on foot within 7 games.
2.2 Mill for my Sagaris.
But either way, why should specing into a tank and using a tank be view as a hobby?!?! Why do most of the AV guys view it this way? What if you had to play as a logi to pay for your little AV hobby? Tanks, when piloted correctly, SHOULD be able to make a living like any other class. When they are not able to do that, they are not balanced correctly. Only sub-par users of any class should have to fall back on militia gear to save up, or else why even have an economy. This "Tank drivers should save up" argument just irritates the hell out of me.
Now, tanks were OP, I do not deny that. My last number crunch on my sagaris was a 42% drop in ehp this build. 42 freaking percent! On top of that the new fit costs almost 1million more isk. Then couple that with AV guys doing 25% more damage these days and what you have is a bunch of paper tigers rolling around the field, not worth the alloys they are made out of.
Tanks need a boost. LAV's need a boost (So that they can actually survive a militia swarm again). Dropships need a HUGE boost. If this doesn't happen, congrats to those who wanted only infantry battles, you now have them. I can't even afford to replace my tank anymore, I can't make money/sp in a dropship. I can't live for but a few seconds in a LAV. I was a pure speced vehicle pilot and in one patch they have nerfed every vehicle into worthless status. I'm out for a while. I'll see you guys next build. I'm heading back to Eve for now.
P.S. To all the AV guys who had to suffer through this under the Tank boost patch. I feel your pain. I'ts our turn. I realize that. I hope it doesn't last as long though. |
Goliath Raven
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 22:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Goliath Raven wrote:xAckie wrote:
This isn't a dig but I noticed in an earlier post you mentioned the cost of a tank being 1.5m . That seems very low to me for a 'game changer' (admittedly we dont have a player market so who knows what the price will be), basically you can earn a new tank on foot within 7 games.
2.2 Mill for my Sagaris. But either way, why should specing into a tank and using a tank be view as a hobby?!?! Why do most of the AV guys view it this way? What if you had to play as a logi to pay for your little AV hobby? Tanks, when piloted correctly, SHOULD be able to make a living like any other class. When they are not able to do that, they are not balanced correctly. Only sub-par users of any class should have to fall back on militia gear to save up, or else why even have an economy. This "Tank drivers should save up" argument just irritates the hell out of me. Now, tanks were OP, I do not deny that. My last number crunch on my sagaris was a 42% drop in ehp this build. 42 freaking percent! On top of that the new fit costs almost 1million more isk. Then couple that with AV guys doing 25% more damage these days and what you have is a bunch of paper tigers rolling around the field, not worth the alloys they are made out of. Tanks need a boost. LAV's need a boost (So that they can actually survive a militia swarm again). Dropships need a HUGE boost. If this doesn't happen, congrats to those who wanted only infantry battles, you now have them. I can't even afford to replace my tank anymore, I can't make money/sp in a dropship. I can't live for but a few seconds in a LAV. I was a pure speced vehicle pilot and in one patch they have nerfed every vehicle into worthless status. I'm out for a while. I'll see you guys next build. I'm heading back to Eve for now. P.S. To all the AV guys who had to suffer through this under the Tank boost patch. I feel your pain. I'ts our turn. I realize that. I hope it doesn't last as long though. The ****? You cant make money? The thing is espc for me, i dont drive my tank like a tank, i drive the tank like its a glass ship and GTFO at sign of danger I may do **** all and still earn 200k, i just wont do as much, i can do better out of a tank but i dont want to get out of my tank for some games and i want to play tank man for a while since DUST has offered me the option to do so but at the same time they have taken away the option aswell because i am less useful than support
I make about 140k usually, sometimes 200k. If I can keep my tank alive for 11-15 battles I can replace 1 tank. I can't keep my tank alive for 11-15 battles currently. So no, I can't make money in my tank. |
Goliath Raven
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 22:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Goliath Raven wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Goliath Raven wrote:xAckie wrote:
This isn't a dig but I noticed in an earlier post you mentioned the cost of a tank being 1.5m . That seems very low to me for a 'game changer' (admittedly we dont have a player market so who knows what the price will be), basically you can earn a new tank on foot within 7 games.
2.2 Mill for my Sagaris. But either way, why should specing into a tank and using a tank be view as a hobby?!?! Why do most of the AV guys view it this way? What if you had to play as a logi to pay for your little AV hobby? Tanks, when piloted correctly, SHOULD be able to make a living like any other class. When they are not able to do that, they are not balanced correctly. Only sub-par users of any class should have to fall back on militia gear to save up, or else why even have an economy. This "Tank drivers should save up" argument just irritates the hell out of me. Now, tanks were OP, I do not deny that. My last number crunch on my sagaris was a 42% drop in ehp this build. 42 freaking percent! On top of that the new fit costs almost 1million more isk. Then couple that with AV guys doing 25% more damage these days and what you have is a bunch of paper tigers rolling around the field, not worth the alloys they are made out of. Tanks need a boost. LAV's need a boost (So that they can actually survive a militia swarm again). Dropships need a HUGE boost. If this doesn't happen, congrats to those who wanted only infantry battles, you now have them. I can't even afford to replace my tank anymore, I can't make money/sp in a dropship. I can't live for but a few seconds in a LAV. I was a pure speced vehicle pilot and in one patch they have nerfed every vehicle into worthless status. I'm out for a while. I'll see you guys next build. I'm heading back to Eve for now. P.S. To all the AV guys who had to suffer through this under the Tank boost patch. I feel your pain. I'ts our turn. I realize that. I hope it doesn't last as long though. The ****? You cant make money? The thing is espc for me, i dont drive my tank like a tank, i drive the tank like its a glass ship and GTFO at sign of danger I may do **** all and still earn 200k, i just wont do as much, i can do better out of a tank but i dont want to get out of my tank for some games and i want to play tank man for a while since DUST has offered me the option to do so but at the same time they have taken away the option aswell because i am less useful than support I make about 140k usually, sometimes 200k. If I can keep my tank alive for 11-15 battles I can replace 1 tank. I can't keep my tank alive for 11-15 battles currently. So no, I can't make money in my tank. I have 16mil but then again i wont use a tank every game so i pick and choose the time for using a tank plsu i didnt tank up till recently so i have ISK saved It can be done
Entered this patch with roughly 16 mill. Didn't last long as a vehicle pilot.
Yah, I used to fly dropships, drive LAVs and HAVs but I am speced strictly into vehicles. No skill points in anything else. As it stands HAV's have the best chance on the battlefield as small as that chance is, as everything else gets one hit. I'd have to pull out a militia lav again to make money, or hoof it as a 0sp noob. I'd rather play Eve. |
Goliath Raven
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 14:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Goliath Raven wrote:I make about 140k usually, sometimes 200k. If I can keep my tank alive for 11-15 battles I can replace 1 tank. I can't keep my tank alive for 11-15 battles currently. So no, I can't make money in my tank. You really expect to be able to make money driving a Sagaris or Surya every single match? Advanced and Prototype dropsuits aren't meant to be used every single match, so infantry will need to "save up ISK" in Milita and Standard gear (and Milita gear won't be free soon). Likewise Advanced and Prototype tanks shouldn't be used every single match, so try using Milita and Standard tanks most of the time, and then bring out the big boys for the big battles.
Advanced gear is not meant to make isk. Oh that makes sense. If only the Sica could survive for 15 seconds out there against swarm launchers.
Seriously, I's there one, above par player out there who cannot make isk with an advanced dropsuit? |
Goliath Raven
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 14:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Goliath Raven wrote:
Advanced gear is not meant to make isk. Oh that makes sense. If only the Sica could survive for 15 seconds out there against swarm launchers.
Yes, the tanks are underpowered right now. They'll get better. Oh, and the Sica and Soma aren't completely worthless in the hands of a great driver, even in their current state.
Ok, first we have to agree on a measurable standard for the value of a Sica and a Soma. The most obvious to me is isk. Now, how do we determine if a great driver is able to utilize a Sica and a Soma without it being completely worthless. I would argue that two criteria have to be met.
- The driver cannot lose isk while, and only while using the tank. wp on foot or other activities outside of tank cannot be taken into account. Pulling out a militia tank for 5 seconds at the end of a battle does'nt mean your tank made you 200k isk.
- The driver must be helpful to his team. Assisting towards the team goal of a victory. Not just hiding at spawn and ducking every time a shot comes his way as I see so many tanks doing these days.
Since the first criteria is so difficult to seperate when using booth dropsuit and vehicle, lets make things simple and say only FULL tank matches, that is a match where all wp are earned in a tank, count.
Now a good fit for a Sica or a Soma is about 500k right now and the base fit is what? 182k? Not looking at the screen right now so I cannot say for sure.
Ok, if one person can provide an example of using a Sica or a Soma to a positive isk gain, I'd be very surprised. However I welcome the numbers, they would be very interesting. Currently with no data, I do not believe the claim that a militia tank is not completely useless in the best of hands.
Bendtner92 wrote:Goliath Raven wrote:Seriously, I's there one, above par player out there who cannot make isk with an advanced dropsuit Please tell me where I said good players can't afford running Advanced/Prototype all the time right now. Of course they can when they're up against crap players. Don't expect them to be able to against an entire team of good players.
Bendtner92 wrote:Advanced and Prototype dropsuits aren't meant to be used every single match, so infantry will need to "save up ISK" in Milita and Standard gear My understanding is that the only reason you would have to save up is if you were losing money. |
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