good that i have invested half of my SP into infantry and not just 100% tank like some other people did. Oh well time to camp some nano hives and spam sleek av grenades.

This probably serves as an indication that we could use a more combat oriented LAV, since the one we have right now operates like an armed scout vehicle. That's in addition by the way, not saying that the current ones need to be re-purposed or something.

Hello everyone,

First of all, awesome thread man, great feedback and I like your attitude to the nerfs, Snake. Now I'm not a HAV driver but as LAV driver I can say that even before the turret turning rate nerf it was possible to run circles around a tank in good circumstances. I'm not saying I was dominating tanks but I did destroy and got destroyed a lot of times and not least by EnglishSnake himself.

I think the changes on tanks are very heavy handed but I think things will be better as new vehicle modules come to the market. I kind of like the idea of eliminating some of these new weaknesses by customizing your tank. For example the module that increases turret speed. Perhaps there should also be a larger difference between different large turrets, for example another railgun that has larger splash radius?

What I do like about what you mentioned is that the extra turret gunners in a tank are becoming more essential and not just some dudes shooting their little guns like fireworks. Now only if they made small blasters and railguns viable too...

Anyways Snake, keep driving that tank man. I love playing against you guys!

Best regards,
Zane Hollgren

https://docs.google.com/a/nd.edu/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am5BtW91ldk3dGIxcWRBVDM3NnJZQlIyVmpZbjBYNEE#gid=0

Have you seen these numbers? The top end sagaris is now a joke. 8 0 sp (not even weaponry, which is technically impossible) militia swarms or 4 prototype swarms with two damage mods will trash it.

Yes tanks blow up easier - though I am not convinced a militia swarm can take anything out but a badly fit tank. Proto grenades plus etc..


I actually quite like your comment/ idea of tanks in a supporting role, taking out installations, enemy clone spawns, and holding objectives but cant go solo on the field. Never did like the idea of tanks being the king of the jungle but thats just me.

But what are your thoughts on the following: Whilst, I kind of agree about the tank not being supported by infantry. But, is that because the infantry aren't supporting the tank, or they just arent interested in supporting the tank - its not their tank, or infantry arent very good generally.

I have been in games against where people who have grouped have dropped in tanks and owned the game. I am not saying the balance / nerf is right and may neeed to change again just an observation.

Part of the problem is AV is ment to be a specialist role ... however since the HAV spamming of the last 2 builds it's become a necessity ... I'm sure people would rather run with infantry grenades but have skilled and now run with AV ones and many people who would just run with assault rifles have invested some points in an advanced swarm launcher because they've needed to.

We won't really know till after the next wipe how many will invest points into anything AV, if the HAVs aren't the same problem they have been until now, then you'll probably find just us select few dedicated AV guys griefing you, but you could go some matches without seeing anything fired against you ... it's possible.

I do think what you said about the railgun is wrong though ... it's been altered to be a specialist AV turret but then you're saying your main problem is with AV infantry not other vehicles ... so why still run the railgun ? Switch to the missiles for a good balance or blasters if you want to go full on for the infantry kills.

Also one AV guy should be able to make a HAV back off and rethink his approach, you shouldn't just be able to sit there repairing the damage. I'm talking about a similarly specced AV and HAV ... a proto swarm with double light damage mods should be able to harass an advanced HAV ( Sagaris Surya) with defence mods, not necessarily kill it solo unless it's a fail fit or driver error, but at least make it turn and run until infantry can clear the area of AV, or as I've said fit your blaster and 1 or 2 shot him/me

Sounds like HAV drivers aren't going 30-0 every game .

I've said this in other threads, but remember that pilot suits as well as (hopefully) passive skill bonuses in the next build will also help buff tanks up. I do agree that the hotfix went a little overboard, but I think they needed to be nerfed so the addition of additional bonuses would not make them capable of shooting the sun and making the the entire system burn in a supernova.

I've not heard anything about any racial bonuses, they were removed from Eve, I don't understand them wanting to introduce them to DUST.

They went from one extreme to the other because they realised HAV drivers had had an easy ride for too long (near 2 full builds) and it's about time they weren't the dominant soloable force on the battlefield.

And the 20% Swarm Launcher nerf at the start of this build and the Forge range cap were only ever temporary.

And finally a very basic AV setup has enough trouble with a militia fit LAV never mind a militia HAV and won't even see a HAV before it is gunned down by anything with a weapon and some things without !

so people are still going around the map by themselves with no support from infantry or a limbus or anything? Tbh AV nades FTW

This isn't a dig but I noticed in an earlier post you mentioned the cost of a tank being 1.5m . That seems very low to me for a 'game changer' (admittedly we dont have a player market so who knows what the price will be), basically you can earn a new tank on foot within 7 games.

I've tried various fits and tanks this build. From what I've come to realise is that this nerf has crippled shield tanks and the armour ones have a bit of survivability. Obviously both types are pretty broken at the minute, but this is what I've found experimenting. The only builds that seem to work/survive are Gallente.

Resistances and the DC aren't worth using from what I've noticed. They make little difference so it's better to ignore them and go for more shield/armour instead.

Nanofibers whilst decreasing your HP actually increase survivability now, but only in the sense that it gets you out of harms way quicker. It certainly doesn't guarantee safety but at least you can sometimes get around a corner to break line of sight.

The rail gun nerf has literally put the weapon into a role that I don't quite understand what it's suppoed to do tbh.

Currently the Large Missile is very competant at taking out infantry and not bad on taking out other tanks. The Large Blaster can hit infantry and track them well due to the turret turn speed, it can also rip tanks to pieces at short to medium range.

This leaves the railgun in the position of what I can only think is a anti tank sniper. It's useless for infantry unless you hit them dead on and the turret tracking just can't keep up.

Now I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm fairly sure that sitting on the edge of the map hitting other AV is gonna be the artillery's job. I'm assuming that the Laser turrets will be the snipers?, who knows I'm guessing here.

That means the railgun has no place in usefullness compared to the other types. It's just not effective at anything now where as the others can easily do the job of the rail if not shame it.

Actually people didn't before the patch because it was pointless because it took at least 4 guys to take out a well fitted HAV and that is if you could get in a good position to not get killed by the HAV or enemy infantry.

See I am relatively happy with the nerf to the splash damage. Tanks are anti vehicle, anti installation...... - and then accurate anti infantry. Its the last one I am not convinced by. Heavy artillery on a location is different to the sniping that occurs/ ed.

As to scouts....meh...nothing damages scout suits...

I totally agree with you on SP part /skill up as a counter. Though it might be the right length of time for AV just that speccing into tanks is too quick which means AV isnt on the field at the same time causing an imbalance.

I am looking forward to seeing how many new skills vehicle drivers will need to get their tank working cause at the moment I presume what we are seeing is very basic. though I may be way off here....

2.2 Mill for my Sagaris.

But either way, why should specing into a tank and using a tank be view as a hobby?!?! Why do most of the AV guys view it this way? What if you had to play as a logi to pay for your little AV hobby? Tanks, when piloted correctly, SHOULD be able to make a living like any other class. When they are not able to do that, they are not balanced correctly. Only sub-par users of any class should have to fall back on militia gear to save up, or else why even have an economy. This "Tank drivers should save up" argument just irritates the hell out of me.

Now, tanks were OP, I do not deny that. My last number crunch on my sagaris was a 42% drop in ehp this build. 42 freaking percent! On top of that the new fit costs almost 1million more isk. Then couple that with AV guys doing 25% more damage these days and what you have is a bunch of paper tigers rolling around the field, not worth the alloys they are made out of.

Tanks need a boost. LAV's need a boost (So that they can actually survive a militia swarm again). Dropships need a HUGE boost. If this doesn't happen, congrats to those who wanted only infantry battles, you now have them. I can't even afford to replace my tank anymore, I can't make money/sp in a dropship. I can't live for but a few seconds in a LAV. I was a pure speced vehicle pilot and in one patch they have nerfed every vehicle into worthless status. I'm out for a while. I'll see you guys next build. I'm heading back to Eve for now.

P.S. To all the AV guys who had to suffer through this under the Tank boost patch. I feel your pain. I'ts our turn. I realize that. I hope it doesn't last as long though.

I make about 140k usually, sometimes 200k. If I can keep my tank alive for 11-15 battles I can replace 1 tank. I can't keep my tank alive for 11-15 battles currently. So no, I can't make money in my tank.