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Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
   |
Posted - 2012.09.14 12:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'd like to hear your explanations why you believe you fight for freedom and equality after these events:
1. Before establishing the Federation, we used the jointly discovered jump gate technology to explore and colonize independently. It wasn't our fault you didn't know we found colonizable systems less than two jumps from our home system and you never bothered to look yourselves. 490 years later, the Federation was founded without an item of full disclosure being conditional, you find out about these colonies and demand their full surrender and turned over to Federation authority immediately. When we refused to just 'roll over and die' at the beckoning of the Gallente, you call us traitors and rebels. Why do you think you're the good guys?
"We will not permit you to tell us how to be Caldari , and so you leave us with no choice."
GÇöExcerpt from the Caldari Proclamation of Secession. CE 23154.11.22
2. The Caldari military wasn't anywhere near the numerical prowess of the Federation. We decided that, instead of protecting our home world, we defended the borders of our colonies. The Federation blockaded our home world, and with all the indecisiveness of a democracy, took many days and still no decision on how to negotiate. Our trapped home world, filled with billions of citizens cut off from their families, careers, and their dignity, a few bad apples sabotaged one of your cities located on our home world. Instead of allowing our fledgling government the time to investigate and track down these extremists, you allow a fascist right wing regime to take the reins and orbit-ally bombard our home world.
Our people burned in nuclear fire, we had to hide our children in the depths of our ancient caverns, while your freedom fighting democracy destroyed our home. What kind of people invade and murder an innocent population based off the actions of an extremist group? (They were called the Templis Dragonaurs, here is their description: The Templis Dragonaurs are an ultra-nationalist Caldari terrorist organization whose origins date back to the Tikiona States. They are easily the most anti-Gallente political entity in New Eden.)
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
GÇöCEP response to Federation demands for unconditional surrender after initial bombardment of Caldari Prime. CE 23155.1.18
3. Then, as if to add insult to injury, you continue to label our new government as a rebel, renegade entity that must be stopped. Our new government had no clue how to react, we barely had seceded, and on the Morning of Reasoning the most powerful corporations ousted the CEOs from power and took the dictatorial reins so we could survive the onslaught of an aggressive and fascist 'Federation'. Our dictatorship was born from your rash reactions and your genocidal bombardment of our home world. You make claims that we abide by a dictator, but we believed our end was nigh and needed immediate and firm leadership to get us through this crisis. We believe in meritocracy, our ancient traditions speak of it. We continue to abide by a dictator because we cannot trust you. You pressed a war of aggression against us for a hundred years to force us back into a Federation we rightfully seceded from... how does the Federation sleep at night?
4. We decided to withdraw from our home world. Your war of aggression threatened to stop that plan. You planned to hold our people against their will on their home world because 'the Federation knows best'. Tovil-Toba had to fight your fleets and sacrifice his own life by driving his fighter carrier into the skies of your home world to buy our civilians enough time to escape this genocidal war of aggression by the Federation. Our people were exiled to New Caldari, and you captured our birthplace and refused to return it at the peace settlement. Where was our equality? Where was the freedom for our people?
5. For another 80 years the Federation pushed the war of aggression against us. We fought back ferociously with our one-man fighters. Only after things became desperate for your numerically superior force did you come up with drones. In response, the Caldari upgraded their one-man fighters into what is now known as 'the frigate'. The Jove entrusted our corporation, the revered and lauded Ishukone for their liberal ideals, with the capsuleer technology. Why, Gallente? What was the point? We simply wanted secession, our freedom.
6. You somehow allowed your FNS Wandering Spirit to be rammed into the side of the Ishukone headquarters in Malkalen during one of the most important peace summits of our time. Ishukone desired an end to the dictatorship! Regardless if it was Alexander Noir, or a criminal, your ship and failure to secure it caused the deaths of some of the greatest minds of our era. We're not sure whether to see this as a hateful response from your military, a sign that we cannot trust you, or simply that you don't have control of your own Federation. Is this what being a part of your Federation should earn us? Is this what the Federation allows?
So I ask you, my Gallente cousins, why do you fight for your Federation? A Federation that has sought nothing but to fight a war of aggression against the Caldari people for over two centuries with minor periods of peace. I would love to see a rational explanation to how the Federation can be seen as a 'warrior for the downtrodden' when you're 'trodding' all over us.
Edit:OOC My sources come directly from CCP, and not in game accounts of the events. I consider them to be unbiased accounts since they're done by CCP itself and not coming from any particular empire in the lore. If anyone wishes sources, I'll be happy to make a post containing all necessary sources. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 12:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:can i has ERP with you?
Sure? |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 13:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
I wish we had aligned with the Minmatar as well at times. We have much more in common with them.
The problem being is that we needed the alliance of an even bigger super power to keep the Federation in check. The sheer size and scope of the Amarr Empire will keep Federation power in check. The Federation might wage a war against us, but wouldn't risk a simultaneous war against the Amarrians as well. It is how we've found peace.
While the Caldari do not support slavery, the affairs of other nationalities aren't our business. We're a people who firmly believe in minding our own business. Slavery has, and always will be, illegal within our borders:
The Caldari have no record of enslaving other races or each other. While they have conquered and killed, slavery seems to be unheard of among the Caldari. There are numerous theories given as to why this is the case; the most widely accepted is that the harsh conditions on Caldari Prime made enslaving others not worth the trouble.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery#History_4
and:
Slavery is a completely alien concept to most Caldari. Despite this, they do not consider it necessarily immoral. Rather, the Caldari view slavery through a very practical lens. While they understand slaves provide ostensibly free labor, they also realize that a slave owner needs to feed, house, and clothe his slaves. Additionally, though slaves can produce items of value, they are unable to purchase anything and thus cannot contribute to a healthy economy.
Therefore, the Caldari view slavery as a misguided notion that does more harm to an economy (and thus a proper society) than good. However, the Caldari also consider the affairs of other nations their own business, as long as it does no direct harm to the State. As a result, the Caldari find no difficulty in being allied with the Amarr Empire and Khanid Kingdom. They may believe those nations would serve as better trading partners should they abolish slavery, but they wouldn't presume to meddle with their society.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery#History_4
Might I also add for posterity:
Slavery was practiced deep in the past of Gallente Prime. Various pre-Federation nations had histories that included enslaving others. However, slavery was first outlawed during the Garoun Empire and since then, it has been outlawed in virtually all Gallente societies. When the Federation was founded in 23121 AD[53], the illegality of slavery was explicitly stated in the Federation's constitution.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery#History_5 |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 13:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:We have a democracy, regardless of how corrupt. We have a federation. We get the best or atleast2nd best quarters. Gallente citizens might not be 100% free, but that's why there are laws...
With regards "full disclosure" it's one of those things. 500 years of building a fleet in secret. We didn't ask, but you didn't tell. It was your secret. Really, building secret armies does cause obvious problems. Like... Why are you keeping it secret?
Finally, this is all in the past. Champions of freedom? Maybe not, but oppressors of the galaxy? Doesn't seem right either. But our standard crew quarters are better than Caldari "silver box" housing.
Basically, we're cool, while the Caldari are boring? Ok?
'regardless of how corrupt'. That's a wildly dangerous topic for a people whose government allowed a fascist right wing party commit genocide against a people. 'Regardless of how corrupt' has cost billions of lives.
We don't consider freedom 'not having laws', we sought the freedom to govern ourselves. Your Federation said no.
It was never built in secret. The Federation never asked. Furthermore, that fleet was a police force to help maintain security in that space. There was never any ill intent behind the use of that fleet. It only turned military after the Federation demanded the surrender of those colonies. Up until then, it was simply a police force. We believe in minding our own business, your Federation believes in meddling in the affairs of others. When that conflicted with Federation ideals, we seceded and declared that we would secure our own destiny.
At that point the Federation committed their atrocities against the Caldari people outlined above. Oppressors of the galaxy is far fetched, you simply oppress the Caldari people and other minority people in your Federation.
OOC: I've honestly not seen the Gallente quarters. I never made Gallente characters. =\ The Gallente are cool, and the Caldari are cool, it's the two sides that make this story so interesting and fun to explore. The fact people see the Gallente as freedom fighting democratic saviors of the galaxy is actually a misnomer though. They're very corrupt and have pressed horrible atrocities on minority people in their own Federation. That *is* what happened. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 14:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:The idea that any of the races in EvE are "freedom" or "fair and just" is no more true than IRL. Everyone of them will stab you in the back or the face. Depending on how ugly your face is :D
OOC
LOL I'll give you that, that's true. I'm just taking on the role of a Caldari zealot who is proclaiming the crimes of the Federation against his people.
Really, I started doing this because so many people like ZionTCD etc. see themselves as playing 'the good guys'. My hope is that, with the revelation of what the Federation has done, and what there actions speak of, will show them that they aren't 'the good guys'. Rather, they're warriors fighting for a corrupt democracy that meddles in the affairs of others. Politically speaking, the Gallente only fight for the Minmatar to destabilize the Amarrian regime, therefore weakening the power bloc that is the Caldari-Amarr alliance. If the Amarrians are destabilized, there is a chance that the new advancements in Federation fighting power could retake the Caldari State.
The Caldari State on the other hand uses 'wage slavery' to keep their people in check. It helps move the war effort forward and secure their independence from the Federation. The corrupt members of the dictatorship line their pockets with the profits of those who are kept in wage-slavery. They do this at the cost of Minmatar slaves by securing their own empire with an Amarrian alliance. In the end, the Caldari are an oppressed people like the Minmatar but the corrupt dictatorship is attempting to extend its hold on power... if the Caldari people turn on the dictatorship it could cost them a lot of money and power. Even possibly giving the Gallente a chance to attempt to seize power once again. There are 8* megacorporations that run the Executive Panel, but they're not all evil and corrupt. There is a power struggle to end the dictatorship internally in the Caldari power hierarchy.
This is all to say that I agree with you, both sides have their ugly sides. I just choose to roleplay a Caldari soldier fighting for his State. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 14:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:It seems like we need to create a Dust 514 intergalactic summit to work out some of these differences. 
Believe me, if there was one, I'd post there.
Edit: And not here, for clarity. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 14:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
In response to Mr Shooter, also OOC since that's where the discussion is,
To some extent yes, but the chronicles never made mention of whether or not the hidden colonies and fleet actually broke Federation rules. Thus the investigation and demand for immediate surrender, possibly because the Federation was fully surprised, but the fact remains it isn't clear that the Caldari broke any laws. Their culture dictates that we mind our own business, you mind yours, thus the quote from the Caldari proclamation of secession. The Caldari grew under the domination of the numerically superior Gallente race. The Gallente had developed on a rather temperate world and expanded much quicker, the Caldari grew up on a horrible tundra landscape and weren't quite as developed.
No explanation was ever really asked for, the Gallente simply jumped to conclusions. The terrorism on Nouvelle Rouvenor was very unfortunate but it wasn't necessarily instigated by the newly formed Caldari State. In fact, Tibus Heth, the dictator who seized power after the Ishukone incident is a suspected member but never officially proven (could've been Federation propaganda? I don't know, but it isn't proven). Instead of allowing an investigation, the Federation jumped straight to orbitally bombarding their closest neighbor almost overnight. Not just bombarding, but invading, their home world. That's very, very rash and reactionary to a people who didn't really do anything. Some terrorists committed an unfortunate crime, but it wasn't propagated by the State.
Agreed about the new dictator. That's what I mean by the problems with the present Caldari dictatorship and the internal struggles in the power hierarchy. Not everyone in the State supports Heth. The home world was kept under Federation terms in the agreement at CONCORD, but the Caldari never got over it. Who can blame them? It's their home.
The difference is that the Federation never tried to make peace at the time of secession*. Our delegation was killed at the peace talks 200 years later*. Furthermore, both governments had been established long enough that 'newly formed government' couldn't be an excuse. The fledgling Caldari State probably had no means at the time of tracking down who was involved at Nouvelle Rouvenor and bringing them to justice, or even if they did they weren't given enough time to use them*.
Caldari xenophobia is built out of the last two centuries of Gallente attempting to force them back into the Federation. Who can really blame them? They gave them a chance and one of the Gallente super carriers was rammed into the headquarters of one of the Caldari's most powerful corporations*.
I actually prefer the stately efficiency of the Caldari quarters, but it does look good all the same. The appearance of the quarters reflects the corners they had to cut in order to ensure their own survival... both literally and figuratively. 
*Edits |
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