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Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2012.09.11 16:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been reading both sides of the debate and figured I'd throw out my observations.
While I hear the expense and three men in a tank arguments I don't see them as valid. Yes, they are expensive per unit, but not so much per use if you only loose one every 5-10 matches. It also only takes one man per tank to drive and shoot, so you don't need to tie up two more guys, they can each drive one of their own.
So I see a tank as equivalent to a dropsuit and weapon. It's got shields, armor, rep, mobility, and a gun. Basically a super heavy. It does have the downside of a large hitbox and being lockable by swarms, but in every other aspect it is orders of magnitude more powerful than any dropsuit you can fit. Does anyone have an argument they can state against this position?
One downside for conventional tanks is that they can't go everywhere, but as previously stated our current maps are wide open.
Now part of me has always loved tanks and I know in my heart that they should be very scary behemoths. You shouldn't be able to take one out easily, so what do you do? You have one guy wielding the power of ten men.
As I see it, the tank is currently missing its natural peditor, the gunship. Modern tanks fear the A-10 which can cut them in half with depleted uranium slugs from its Gatling gun. Then there are precision bombers who scream in before a tank can find cover and drop guided munitions that can take them out in one punch. DUST has no equivalent, and without a natural preditor this beast multiplies until it consumes all its food source.
I am hoping to see one of these natural preditors introduced in the next build. Then (if the gunship doesn't just replace the tank as a good for everything role), we will see a balance. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 16:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Corban Lahnder wrote:Tanks are expensive. Even with militia builds there expensive. Some people dont have the money to buy tanks to counter tanks. When the only counter to tanks is tanks, theres no reason to skill anything else.
As I have always said you dont have to nerf tanks to balance them. Just make War points match dependent.
You start with 0 war points then you gain them for preforming tasks during the match. This causes the match to escalate instead of having it start with 5 tanks and one team getting steam rolled.
I like to cite Tribes Ascend as an example. You Earn the ability to deploy tanks shrikes, supply depots and orbital strikes and air strikes. You dont start the match with them you earn them.
Maybe for High-sec or gladiatorial matches, but I can't see the logic for such artificial restrictions in normal battles. We need the Rock/Paper/Scissors of natural preditors to form a natural balance. Tanks need air cover from installations or dedicated AA teams, air superiority must be won by destroying AA assets, probably by fighters that aren't much good against infantry, etc. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thor Thunder Fist wrote:I'd be fine with a turret damage reduction across the board(again) but with an HP increase there have been several times today where militia swarms have gotten through my shields when there were 3 people shooting at me(which is appropriate because 3 people fit in a tank) tanks are fine maybe they reach there top speed too quickly but there HP isn't the problem maybe the regen is but not the hp I often go around 20-0 in a round with my tank and range from 30-80k sp depending on how many RDV's I kill in said round. pretty much suck it up tanks were worse last build.
Yes, you can carry a couple team mates around and hand them assists, but you don't require them. Each of them can call in their own and run along with you, or pick up a gun and kill the AV guy before he can get close to you.
Right now a tank is the equivalent of a super duper heavy proto suit that one man can strap on. It has superior armor, shields, rep, mobility, CPU, PG, and weapon slots than any other suit you could possibly build. It is faster than a scout, has more HP than a dozen heavies, more rep, and a gun that's over a magnitude better than anything a heavy can carry, and it never runs out of ammunition. Other than not being able to hack, having a large hitbox, and being swarm lockable, there is no downside.
I'm still waiting for a tanker to debate this point with me. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 00:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thor Thunder Fist wrote:Skihids wrote:Thor Thunder Fist wrote:I'd be fine with a turret damage reduction across the board(again) but with an HP increase there have been several times today where militia swarms have gotten through my shields when there were 3 people shooting at me(which is appropriate because 3 people fit in a tank) tanks are fine maybe they reach there top speed too quickly but there HP isn't the problem maybe the regen is but not the hp I often go around 20-0 in a round with my tank and range from 30-80k sp depending on how many RDV's I kill in said round. pretty much suck it up tanks were worse last build. Yes, you can carry a couple team mates around and hand them assists, but you don't require them. Each of them can call in their own and run along with you, or pick up a gun and kill the AV guy before he can get close to you. Right now a tank is the equivalent of a super duper heavy proto suit that one man can strap on. It has superior armor, shields, rep, mobility, CPU, PG, and weapon slots than any other suit you could possibly build. It is faster than a scout, has more HP than a dozen heavies, more rep, and a gun that's over a magnitude better than anything a heavy can carry, and it never runs out of ammunition. Other than not being able to hack, having a large hitbox, and being swarm lockable, there is no downside. I'm still waiting for a tanker to debate this point with me. lack of mobility is a downside there are a lot of spots tanks can't go. well shouldn't I know it's fun taking a joyride down the side of a mountain. and just think about what your saying for a minute if there was an uber downside that would let an infantry men kill a tank why would tanks have been invented? arn't tanks supost to dominate infantry? maybe the heavy needs something like in Valkyria Chronicles where Lancers(AV Units) had explosive resistant armor(some weird thing that lets you survive multiple tank shells to the face) I donno I don't think there is much trouble from what I gathered on this thread 11 shots from a forge gun kills a tank sounds like a lot but when you have 3 guys thats around 4 shots each think the charge up is 3 sec each shot so in 12 sec the tank goes from full hp to empty.
I already acknowledged that this super duper Titan suit is too large to go everywhere, but it can go just about everywhere that matters and faster than a scout to boot so that's hardly a limitation that matters.
What I want is either a recognition from a tank driver that he basically has a Titan suit or a convincing refutation.
I haven't gotten either so far, just side tracking. What say you to my question?
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Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 01:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Thor Thunder Fist wrote:[quote=Skihids][quote=Thor Thunder Fist]
What I want is either a recognition from a tank driver that he basically has a Titan suit or a convincing refutation.
I haven't gotten either so far, just side tracking. What say you to my question?
The same thing I always say, the problem is the maps, not the stats. The turrets are a bit too multipurpose, but fundamentally the mobility restrictions (separate from limitations) are not sufficient. Who builds a hyper-expensive space defense facility and then leaves the command console for the gun outside?
So you agree that it's a one man Titan and believe that the only limitation that power needs is but more map restrictio?
How much of the map should it have access to? |
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