DUST Search - In Defense of Sniping

RankRancid wrote:

Fivetimes Infinity wrote:

Van Aewulf wrote:

That's your experience though. If people didn't feel constrained, there wouldn't be such an outcry against the sniper class.

People are scared to run around the battlefield because of that powerful bullet coming from the shadows. That's the way it ought to be on a violent, dangerous battlefield.

If you're targeting a sniper because he's got a few kills then you're effectively counter sniping, even if it's with an AR or whatever. You're still counter sniping, yet you say it's terrible advice. Which is it man?

You do it because it's the effective way to deal with a sniper. You say it's terrible, but how else should it be done? From what you've written, your solution is that CCP should force snipers to the front line. Where the HMG, AR, and tanks can rip them to shreds. That's what I'm reading.

I get the feeling like I need to restate this: I am a sniper. It's all I've been doing since a few days after Precursor hit. So when I say I'm not constrained, what I mean is that, as a sniper myself, I do not feel like other snipers are at all effective counters to me and don't infringe upon my ability to play in any significant way.

But no, this isn't the way it ought to be, because it isn't a battlefield, it's a game, and the purpose of the game is to be fun. People should not be shut down by we snipers so easily. Sniping should not be something that you can effortlessly get 10 or 20 kills with and only one or two deaths with, despite investing a minimum of ISK and without any serious SP demands.

Here's the real bit that is really uncontroversial: If you spent the same SP and ISK on an infantry fit, and played that infantry guy solo, you would not do anywhere as well at hurting the enemy team and winning the game as if you were a sniper.

And I counter-snipe intermittently if it suits me. If there are any snipers exposed, I'll kill them. I don't go out of my way to kill them, and will not endanger myself to kill one of them. I don't assert that my shooting of snipers now and then is an effective way to deal with sniping in general, as plenty of snipers go about their business safe from me or any other sniper.

RankRancid wrote:

I think this is where you and I will differ for ever. I see a big name on that other team and my kill rate goes down. My sole purpose is to find that person and shut their game down. So what if I die a few times. I have had so many mountain goating trips I have 4000 lives in the pocket. I learn nothing from hiding from these people. If tony hasn't killed me so many times face to face he would be able to call me a chicken and he would be right. As you say we are always killing from so far away. Go up to people and say hi. Its not all about reaching out and touching someone.

If someone is using a Ishukone I'll make a bit of an effort to kill them. I won't expose myself recklessly, but when I kill Gem Cutter a few times because he's using a rifle that costs more than my entire fit, I do smirk a bit.

But, yeah, I am trying to kill a lot of people. My entire point in switching to sniper was to demonstrate how easy sniping is. I don't have any
vendettas and don't typically pay attention to who's in the game. So it might be the case that my own experiences are more applicable to your average sniper than your own.

You don't think ccp is looking at all the numbers and not only the leet? How many snipers you putting down a day. At the end of the game. Those guys you killed. How many went positive? How many of that total were snipers?

For every descent sniper I have met there have been 20 that couldn't go positive. How can you, talking about a person on the front page of the kd board, call them op and forget about the hundreds that don't find sniping easy. I could build a scout mountain out of bodies of snipers I have laid waste to. Ccp has to see the awesome number of snipers that are no where close to op.

My one frustration with you is in threads where snipers are talking about how difficult it is and you come in and say how good you are and how op sniping is. This is a beta. If you have experience you will know the true talent doesn't arrive till the party starts after release. Beta testers are known for being crap. How many demos have you watched and thought wtf is that idiot doing? I'm sure it is a lot.

I would hold back on that feeling of you putting gem out of pocket. Ccp bumped the isk again due to complaints. I have 100 ishukones. When it hits 90 I rebuy 10. I have 24 mil isk waiting for my proto suits. Look at his number of kills. He will be very close to me in total isk received.

Personally I see ishukone in the kill feed and its written in red. I know its game time.


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mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.10 21:53:00 - [1] - Quote Havent read posts except for OP. Reason why most hate snipers is that they GENERALLY are less useful than players "in the middle of the action". Reason being: Good snipers can be VERY helpful, problem is that bad snipers are pretty useless. If they cant kill, they arent doing anything... and if not in a good location, cant even spot enemy positions. Atleast with assault/heavy in the action, even if theyre bad, they can arm objectives, throw down nanohives, revive, or even just be a target that'll distract opponents, until better players can kill and get stuff done.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.11 20:38:00 - [2] - Quote RankRancid wrote: Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Van Aewulf wrote: That's your experience though. If people didn't feel constrained, there wouldn't be such an outcry against the sniper class. People are scared to run around the battlefield because of that powerful bullet coming from the shadows. That's the way it ought to be on a violent, dangerous battlefield. If you're targeting a sniper because he's got a few kills then you're effectively counter sniping, even if it's with an AR or whatever. You're still counter sniping, yet you say it's terrible advice. Which is it man? You do it because it's the effective way to deal with a sniper. You say it's terrible, but how else should it be done? From what you've written, your solution is that CCP should force snipers to the front line. Where the HMG, AR, and tanks can rip them to shreds. That's what I'm reading. I get the feeling like I need to restate this: I am a sniper. It's all I've been doing since a few days after Precursor hit. So when I say I'm not constrained, what I mean is that, as a sniper myself, I do not feel like other snipers are at all effective counters to me and don't infringe upon my ability to play in any significant way. But no, this isn't the way it ought to be, because it isn't a battlefield, it's a game, and the purpose of the game is to be fun. People should not be shut down by we snipers so easily. Sniping should not be something that you can effortlessly get 10 or 20 kills with and only one or two deaths with, despite investing a minimum of ISK and without any serious SP demands. Here's the real bit that is really uncontroversial: If you spent the same SP and ISK on an infantry fit, and played that infantry guy solo, you would not do anywhere as well at hurting the enemy team and winning the game as if you were a sniper. And I counter-snipe intermittently if it suits me. If there are any snipers exposed, I'll kill them. I don't go out of my way to kill them, and will not endanger myself to kill one of them. I don't assert that my shooting of snipers now and then is an effective way to deal with sniping in general, as plenty of snipers go about their business safe from me or any other sniper. RankRancid wrote: I think this is where you and I will differ for ever. I see a big name on that other team and my kill rate goes down. My sole purpose is to find that person and shut their game down. So what if I die a few times. I have had so many mountain goating trips I have 4000 lives in the pocket. I learn nothing from hiding from these people. If tony hasn't killed me so many times face to face he would be able to call me a chicken and he would be right. As you say we are always killing from so far away. Go up to people and say hi. Its not all about reaching out and touching someone. If someone is using a Ishukone I'll make a bit of an effort to kill them. I won't expose myself recklessly, but when I kill Gem Cutter a few times because he's using a rifle that costs more than my entire fit, I do smirk a bit. But, yeah, I am trying to kill a lot of people. My entire point in switching to sniper was to demonstrate how easy sniping is. I don't have any vendettas and don't typically pay attention to who's in the game. So it might be the case that my own experiences are more applicable to your average sniper than your own. You don't think ccp is looking at all the numbers and not only the leet? How many snipers you putting down a day. At the end of the game. Those guys you killed. How many went positive? How many of that total were snipers? For every descent sniper I have met there have been 20 that couldn't go positive. How can you, talking about a person on the front page of the kd board, call them op and forget about the hundreds that don't find sniping easy. I could build a scout mountain out of bodies of snipers I have laid waste to. Ccp has to see the awesome number of snipers that are no where close to op. My one frustration with you is in threads where snipers are talking about how difficult it is and you come in and say how good you are and how op sniping is. This is a beta. If you have experience you will know the true talent doesn't arrive till the party starts after release. Beta testers are known for being crap. How many demos have you watched and thought wtf is that idiot doing? I'm sure it is a lot. I would hold back on that feeling of you putting gem out of pocket. Ccp bumped the isk again due to complaints. I have 100 ishukones. When it hits 90 I rebuy 10. I have 24 mil isk waiting for my proto suits. Look at his number of kills. He will be very close to me in total isk received. Personally I see ishukone in the kill feed and its written in red. I know its game time. This sums up my feelings perfectly...not just about snipers, but on tanks, last build's REs, EVERYTHING! What makes something OP isn't when a small percentage of the player base can be beastly with it... it's when even an AVERAGE player, can dominate with it. Not to get off topic, but this is why something like the SR and snipers aren't really OP, but tanks are. Why REs were OP last build, why Heavy with HMG was OP two builds ago, etc ,etc.