DUST Search - Why I Think Gunplay Feels "Off"

Patches The Hyena wrote:

-Currently the game makes me feel like a floating camera with a gun beneath me and very little attachment to my character. The only connection you have is the occasional camera reaction to an impact. These are not accompanied by an indication of a wound, splattered blood or injury sounds but rather just jarring sudden camera movements for seemingly no reason. ItGÇÖs usually unclear to me why my POV jolted (or flat out spun me somewhere random) as I have no additional markers for this. The viewpoint needs to feel like itGÇÖs a head on a moving body and not a free floating camera which happens to have a gun below it.

-Using ADS is very unnatural to me. IGÇÖll go from a state of having a gun in front of me to being a camcorder operator on a deadly Hollywood shoot. It feel more like a psychotic cameraman with a deadly dot than I do like a trained soldier scoping in. The zoom level barely changes and even if it shouldnGÇÖt I donGÇÖt feel like IGÇÖm using my scope as I lose the gun entirely once I ADS. Transitioning from hip fire to ADS isnGÇÖt fluid either as the gun just vanishes.

What I believe is missing is a smooth pull up animation as the gun moves to rest on my shoulder. I think it would also add a lot of GÇ£connectionGÇ¥ to give us reflex sights (similar to the red dot in the E3 2011 trailer) or even iron sights for the hardcore player base. Using this method would allow us to not lose awareness of the immediate surroundings while using ADS.

-Sensitivity is a serious issue with the current build. The sensitivity settings donGÇÖt seem to do much and no matter how I set them I always find myself overcompensating in ADS and undercompensating while hip firing. Sensitivity acceleration is overdone as I find it very hard to actually aim where I want. I either donGÇÖt get there or overshoot it completely.

Aiming at longer ranges is usually easier to control with strafing that it is with view corrections. Medium ranges are usually impractical for ADS due to these sensitivity issues and I mostly end up just hip spraying.

-Grenades just feel wrong. Tapping L2 causes a short delay with no proper indication anything is actually going on. IGÇÖll just stand there waiting and hoping the L2 tap was actually registered. After this uneasy waiting period all I get is half an animation which results in the grenade appearing out of nowhere and usually flying somewhere I didnGÇÖt want it.Holding down L2 for a bit does seem to get better results but is slow and also doesnGÇÖt always work.

My overall experience due to the above notes is an uneasy feeling while playing and a detached feeling from my online avatar. IGÇÖm no more than a floating camera with strange animations and UI changes happening around me.

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Patches The Hyena 204	Posted - 2012.09.10 14:45:00 - [1] - Quote -Currently the game makes me feel like a floating camera with a gun beneath me and very little attachment to my character. The only connection you have is the occasional camera reaction to an impact. These are not accompanied by an indication of a wound, splattered blood or injury sounds but rather just jarring sudden camera movements for seemingly no reason. ItGÇÖs usually unclear to me why my POV jolted (or flat out spun me somewhere random) as I have no additional markers for this. The viewpoint needs to feel like itGÇÖs a head on a moving body and not a free floating camera which happens to have a gun below it. -Using ADS is very unnatural to me. IGÇÖll go from a state of having a gun in front of me to being a camcorder operator on a deadly Hollywood shoot. It feel more like a psychotic cameraman with a deadly dot than I do like a trained soldier scoping in. The zoom level barely changes and even if it shouldnGÇÖt I donGÇÖt feel like IGÇÖm using my scope as I lose the gun entirely once I ADS. Transitioning from hip fire to ADS isnGÇÖt fluid either as the gun just vanishes. What I believe is missing is a smooth pull up animation as the gun moves to rest on my shoulder. I think it would also add a lot of GÇ£connectionGÇ¥ to give us reflex sights (similar to the red dot in the E3 2011 trailer) or even iron sights for the hardcore player base. Using this method would allow us to not lose awareness of the immediate surroundings while using ADS. -Sensitivity is a serious issue with the current build. The sensitivity settings donGÇÖt seem to do much and no matter how I set them I always find myself overcompensating in ADS and undercompensating while hip firing. Sensitivity acceleration is overdone as I find it very hard to actually aim where I want. I either donGÇÖt get there or overshoot it completely. Aiming at longer ranges is usually easier to control with strafing that it is with view corrections. Medium ranges are usually impractical for ADS due to these sensitivity issues and I mostly end up just hip spraying. -Grenades just feel wrong. Tapping L2 causes a short delay with no proper indication anything is actually going on. IGÇÖll just stand there waiting and hoping the L2 tap was actually registered. After this uneasy waiting period all I get is half an animation which results in the grenade appearing out of nowhere and usually flying somewhere I didnGÇÖt want it.Holding down L2 for a bit does seem to get better results but is slow and also doesnGÇÖt always work. My overall experience due to the above notes is an uneasy feeling while playing and a detached feeling from my online avatar. IGÇÖm no more than a floating camera with strange animations and UI changes happening around me.
The Last Shepherd Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.09.10 14:51:00 - [2] - Quote ADS is a bit odd, I dont like the feeling and dont notice a big improvement from hip fire at-least with hip fire i feel like Im shooting
ERIC ALIGHIERI HYPERION RESEARCH LTD. 47	Posted - 2012.09.10 15:29:00 - [3] - Quote The Last Shepherd wrote: ADS is a bit odd, I dont like the feeling and dont notice a big improvement from hip fire at-least with hip fire i feel like Im shooting Yea... I agree. Shooting from the hip feels right. when zoomed in its no good.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.09.10 15:56:00 - [4] - Quote ADS is terrible for me, seems like the dot always glides past my target when I try to do small tiny movements. Its very clunky and jerky, not very smooth.
Patches The Hyena 204	Posted - 2012.09.11 05:47:00 - [5] - Quote Most of the weirdness with the feel of the game is hard to describe, but the ADS bit is not. It lacks smoothness in the transition from hip to shoulder and in controls once looking down the scope.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.09.11 08:27:00 - [6] - Quote While I don't agree with everything you've said (I haven't had any problem with the control sensitivity), you get a +1 for explaining why you feel the way you do. We need more of this on the forum.
Beast Beastlington Bragian Order Amarr Empire 237	Posted - 2012.09.11 10:24:00 - [7] - Quote I can't believe more people aren't posting about the general sloppiness of the gunplay. I posted a thread in general discussion about it.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.09.11 11:28:00 - [8] - Quote I mostly agree. I would like a RDS from the E3 trailer.
Wheres-my MONEY-Skank Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:36:00 - [9] - Quote I AGREE TOOOO! Read MY POST about what I think about this subject
Onieros Dreamwalker 7	Posted - 2012.09.11 14:38:00 - [10] - Quote I agree with this. ADS needs lots of work to get all the kinks out. The sensitivity is poor, fluidity is lacking, using ADS gives no notible accuracy improvment at close range. CQB is effectively reduced to straffing and hip firing/spraying. Moving while using ads is cumbersome and slow, I feel like I'm being penalized for wanting to keep my gun at my shoulder, pointed at the enemy.

FreelanceX KZR Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.09.11 15:30:00 - [11] - Quote I agree with everything said. The sensitivity is poor. At max its still far too slow to ever track a target. The ADS is floaty, slow and inaccurate. ADS while in CQC is detrimental to my own health. Hitting the target while he halo jumps and strafes makes him impossible to track. Hipfire is also poor for me as the turning is far to slow. I feel I am always fighting with the controller. The sights on the SMGs are what all guns should have. Unfortunately the SMGs (Atleast the first ones) are so weak that you can empty a mag without killing a guy with 300hp. I also am never sure where to actually point and shoot. As far as I can see, there is no explanation of bullet time? Is it instant like COD or do you have to lead and account for drop-off like in BF3? Either way I always feel like I am shooting in-front or behind the enemy due to the awful sensitivity and lack of sticky aim which all consoles have.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.09.12 04:50:00 - [12] - Quote For some reason the sensitivity settings are in reverse (0>100). https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=298315
Trancos DunAdan Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.09.12 05:04:00 - [13] - Quote Patches The Hyena wrote: -Currently the game makes me feel like a floating camera with a gun beneath me and very little attachment to my character. The only connection you have is the occasional camera reaction to an impact. These are not accompanied by an indication of a wound, splattered blood or injury sounds but rather just jarring sudden camera movements for seemingly no reason. ItGÇÖs usually unclear to me why my POV jolted (or flat out spun me somewhere random) as I have no additional markers for this. The viewpoint needs to feel like itGÇÖs a head on a moving body and not a free floating camera which happens to have a gun below it. -Using ADS is very unnatural to me. IGÇÖll go from a state of having a gun in front of me to being a camcorder operator on a deadly Hollywood shoot. It feel more like a psychotic cameraman with a deadly dot than I do like a trained soldier scoping in. The zoom level barely changes and even if it shouldnGÇÖt I donGÇÖt feel like IGÇÖm using my scope as I lose the gun entirely once I ADS. Transitioning from hip fire to ADS isnGÇÖt fluid either as the gun just vanishes. What I believe is missing is a smooth pull up animation as the gun moves to rest on my shoulder. I think it would also add a lot of GÇ£connectionGÇ¥ to give us reflex sights (similar to the red dot in the E3 2011 trailer) or even iron sights for the hardcore player base. Using this method would allow us to not lose awareness of the immediate surroundings while using ADS. -Sensitivity is a serious issue with the current build. The sensitivity settings donGÇÖt seem to do much and no matter how I set them I always find myself overcompensating in ADS and undercompensating while hip firing. Sensitivity acceleration is overdone as I find it very hard to actually aim where I want. I either donGÇÖt get there or overshoot it completely. Aiming at longer ranges is usually easier to control with strafing that it is with view corrections. Medium ranges are usually impractical for ADS due to these sensitivity issues and I mostly end up just hip spraying. -Grenades just feel wrong. Tapping L2 causes a short delay with no proper indication anything is actually going on. IGÇÖll just stand there waiting and hoping the L2 tap was actually registered. After this uneasy waiting period all I get is half an animation which results in the grenade appearing out of nowhere and usually flying somewhere I didnGÇÖt want it.Holding down L2 for a bit does seem to get better results but is slow and also doesnGÇÖt always work. My overall experience due to the above notes is an uneasy feeling while playing and a detached feeling from my online avatar. IGÇÖm no more than a floating camera with strange animations and UI changes happening around me. This is a great explanation of why the gunplay feels off. I think this is a game with HUGE potential, but a lot of people can leave just because they didn't like this aspect of the game. For myself, what I noticed the most was how nothing changed when I was fully healthy and when I was just about to die. I think at least a red filter or blood splatter, or anything, would be nice, since I really have no choice but to look at the hud in the middle of the gunfight, that being hugely unpractical to stay alive... Besides that, the grenade delay and "half animation" is also a pretty big problem, but he said it all on his post already. I really, really hope they get to fix most things about the game by the time it launches, because if they do fix these couple of gameplay problems, I honestly think this'll be an EXCELLENT game...
Patches The Hyena 204	Posted - 2012.09.12 05:19:00 - [14] - Quote Glad to see I'm not alone in this
Beast Beastlington Bragian Order Amarr Empire 237	Posted - 2012.09.12 09:54:00 - [15] - Quote I'll post this here again, for what it's worth. I tried to get a discussion going but seems people are more interested in what certain corps are up to instead talking about game issues. I posted this in another thread after a few of the other testers asked me to define what my issues are with Dust's gunplay. If you feel like you can add anything to my post below please do, and try to keep it positive. The better more concise information provided, the more chance developers will take note. It's not an easy thing to define but I'll give you my take on it. Before people start throwing around "lolz fanboy troll" accusations, I'd like to point out that I'm not a massive fan of any of the current crop of shooters. MAG was the last shooter I played a lot and lately, Battlefield 3 and Counter Strike: GO see a little, but not a ton of game time. The first and most obvious thing about the guns in Dust is the sound. I'm particularly referring to the AR's. The "TIP TAP TIP TAP" sound doesn't give me a sense that I'm firing a high powered futuristic rifle (LOLZ ITZ A GAEM!!1!). Yes, it is a game but I feel that one of the important things that create a sense of connection to the on screen action is the sound. Currently, it's not good enough. The second thing for me is the ADS view. It's jarring to say the least. I hope this view isn't going to be a permanent feature and we see something more akin to the E3 2011 view. Again, for me, it creates a disconnect between the weapon and the player. The weapon doesn't have any identity any more and is replaced with an ugly camera view. I also feel there's a severe lack of feedback, both aural and tactile. Let's take COD: Black Ops as an example. When you are shooting an enemy you clearly hear "THUD" sounds and feel small vibrations in the control pad. It also has the hitmarkers on screen at the same time. Dust has the red X at the moment but it needs more IMO. There's also no enemy death noise and death animations are not up to the standard of other engines. Face-offs at the moment tend to be very amateurish. It usually boils down to: see a player, aim, you both fire and strafe dance and winning feels arbitrary. These are all things that add up to the satisfaction of a kill. The sense that you've outgunned someone and give you a greater sense of belonging to a huge battle. It don't think it's any use having grandiose ideas if the basic fundamentals are not there. Please, I implore you to play a game like Battlefield 3. Despite all of it's flaws, and they are numerous, you have a sense of connection to your weapon (levelling it up was a great idea) the war around you and most of all, take note of the sound design. For most players out there, and Dust will need alot, it is these elements that keep them coming back IMO. I hope that clarifies my stance a bit. Cheers.
Patches The Hyena 204	Posted - 2012.09.12 10:44:00 - [16] - Quote Well I obviously agree with your post as well.
Patches The Hyena 204	Posted - 2012.09.19 07:00:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Cmndr Wang directly responded to this thread here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=315202#post315202
Foldenfly Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 81	Posted - 2012.09.19 07:04:00 - [18] - Quote Excellent post. I've been trying to put my finger on the issue and you nailed it. EDIT: For me, the tracking of a player in ADS seems to "snap" much like jumping between grid points, rather than gliding. I either overcompensate and strafe too far, or can't quite catch up to the target as they move.
Rajjan Doomheim 0	Posted - 2012.09.19 11:58:00 - [19] - Quote i agree with everything, and sound is important.. i dont feel the "warzone" when im spawning
Windshear1 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.09.19 12:34:00 - [20] - Quote Excellent synopsis my feeling exactly. I remember the first time I ADS and I said to myself "what is this?" The lack of animation is laughable and HAS to be fixed. Also I find the lack of weapons a HUGE problem. One assault rifle that takes dozens of bullets to kill one player is excessive. There needs to be a wide range of semi and fully automatic weapons. Battlefield 3 for example has dozens of weapons with a wide range of capabilities. I agree that the movement seems off in this game. The player moves too slow and despite my sensetivity settings, the controls are too sluggish. Running speed and movemnt need to be increased to compensate for the large maps. One last point is sound. Sound is vital to player connection and I feel like the sound of the weapons is lacking. I do enjoy certain sounds, like when you kill an enemy player it feels rewarding. I also enjoy the music, but feel it could be more. I want to feel the concusive blasts of tank cannons, grenades, rifle blasts etc.



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