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madd mudd
41
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Posted - 2012.09.04 16:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
The basic AV weapons still work really well on the basic level tanks and other vehicles. While it is unfair for a highly spec'd player to bring in a super tank and pwn a bunch of newb players adjusting the AV weapons will only allow low level characters to destroy tanks too easily rather than bring balance to this issue.
A better solution would be ranked matchmaking so that players at better matched against eachother. Perhaps new players should still have a fighting chance against the highest level tanks, but then what would be the purpose of upgrading skills and getting better weapons if the default weapons work just as good.
Also please don't decrease the tank speed it is very slow movement as it is, and a well equipped LAV has a better fighting chance over it as is now.
Please don't listen to all the whiners who don't have the tactical support or skills to take on a tank through other means than just complaining. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
The tanks is quick as all hell.
The LAV's aren't fast enough to dodge a well posted up tank.
The AV stuff needs a buff, the nerf was uncalled for in all respects, if they wanted Tank vs Tank warfare, tell us about it and make a battle in battle finder for people that use tanks to go and test for them.
The basic stuff does okay vs basic level vehicles, that much is alright, but going to the upgrades, a proto swarm can barely scratch a advanced tank if it's not stuck on something. |
Seran Jinkar
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
214
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Posted - 2012.09.04 16:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Other means like "AIM-FOR-THE-BOTTOM"-Swarm missiles with 70% efficiency? Rubber AV Grenades? Invisible Webifiers that can't even be found on the market, lying right next to the invisible mines and other AV stuff?
Oh you mean the short sighted Forge Gun?
... even Lurchasaurus wrote that he congratulates a coordinated AV squad that WOULD have taken down his tank without the nerf. So just give some anti-tank power back to the infantry. You know that even todays armies have special anti-tank infantry that needs to be held at bay by regular troops. Tanks don't need the regulars right now. They just roll in ... end of story. |
madd mudd
41
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
The low level tank is slow and can be out run by the low level LAV.
Personally I haven't used the upgraded AV weapons, so perhaps the Forge Gun and upper level Swarm Launchers should be buffed.
However, I more so think that it should be an equality based on level balance between items rather than just all AV weapons being buffed. I don't think in any instance a default heavy class should be able to take out the high level tank by himself, but he should be able to damage it a bit to where maybe 6 players working together could take it out. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
648
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
I thought this was yet another troll at first, but sadly, the OP is serious.
How can you seriously think this?! |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think before asking for something not to be nerfed or whatever, atleast try it out. It's called testing for a reason... |
madd mudd
41
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:I thought this was yet another troll at first, but sadly, the OP is serious.
How can you seriously think this?!
Dont get me wrong I do feel like the top tier tanks are overpowered against infantry, but shouldn't they be?
I'm more concerned about their being a decent balance in the game than devs curtailing to whiners. |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Seriously? Upper level swarm launchers have two more missiles per shot, doing 25% more damage than "negligible" while costing a relative fortune and gimping the user vs. infantry. Other than reducing the splash damage to 15 after the first build and knocking 100 off of each missile's direct damage recently, they've barely fiddled with their damage.
Infantry vs. armor combat was briefly more fair when we could run around in powerful Proto gear and harass them, but every time they try to balance stuff out it either tilts the equation further in favor of tanks or completely breaks something in the infantry vs. infantry game. |
StoneD ReapeR Qc
Doomheim
16
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
madd mudd wrote:The basic AV weapons still work really well on the basic level tanks and other vehicles. While it is unfair for a highly spec'd player to bring in a super tank and pwn a bunch of newb players adjusting the AV weapons will only allow low level characters to destroy tanks too easily rather than bring balance to this issue.
A better solution would be ranked matchmaking so that players at better matched against eachother. Perhaps new players should still have a fighting chance against the highest level tanks, but then what would be the purpose of upgrading skills and getting better weapons if the default weapons work just as good.
Also please don't decrease the tank speed it is very slow movement as it is, and a well equipped LAV has a better fighting chance over it as is now.
Please don't listen to all the whiners who don't have the tactical support or skills to take on a tank through other means than just complaining.
THEY ARE SLOW.......... ARE U KIDDING!!! BTW u only get 1 Xtra Missile on your swarm launcher as you LVL it up .... soo with a 250 dmg per missile, yha u get 6 missiles on a Prototype... thats 1500 DMG with a Prototype Swarm... and a Segaris Starts with 3120 Shields without any modules..... with Booster and Enhancer and a little SP Well placed... The Shield has time to recharge before u can shoot ur 2nd SWARM... Followed Closely by those USELESS Flux that Blow-up 1-5 times.... USELESS |
StoneD ReapeR Qc
Doomheim
16
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
madd mudd wrote:The low level tank is slow and can be out run by the low level LAV.
Personally I haven't used the upgraded AV weapons, so perhaps the Forge Gun and upper level Swarm Launchers should be buffed.
However, I more so think that it should be an equality based on level balance between items rather than just all AV weapons being buffed. I don't think in any instance a default heavy class should be able to take out the high level tank by himself, but he should be able to damage it a bit to where maybe 6 players working together could take it out.
Talk about BALANCE... sorry but even if i max out a Heavy Dropsuit on speed and whatever u want.... i will never be able to RUN or WALK as fast as a SCOUT!!!! Theres your Balance..... |
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madd mudd
41
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't have a problem taking out a militia tank with the default class.
I'm not saying it doesn't need better balance, just wanted to give a fair warning as I don't think it would be fair if I could destroy a high level tank with a default class.
I'd say the changes being made should be at a level to level basis rather than just buffing all existing AV weapons.
A level 1 forge gun should be able to easily take out a militia and lvl 1 tank.
It should be balanced by rank of gear, and as it currently stands default equipment is well suited for AV of the same level. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
madd mudd wrote:The low level tank is slow and can be out run by the low level LAV.
Personally I haven't used the upgraded AV weapons, so perhaps the Forge Gun and upper level Swarm Launchers should be buffed.
However, I more so think that it should be an equality based on level balance between items rather than just all AV weapons being buffed. I don't think in any instance a default heavy class should be able to take out the high level tank by himself, but he should be able to damage it a bit to where maybe 6 players working together could take it out.
So you want the tank of 3 people to waste the resources of twice as many people to take on 1 single tank. but if that tank has one friend then all 6 of those people are dead before trying to take one down.
and with grouping, currently there is possible of a full tank and another tank that blue dots can ride in. |
StoneD ReapeR Qc
Doomheim
16
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
madd mudd wrote:I don't have a problem taking out a militia tank with the default class.
I'm not saying it doesn't need better balance, just wanted to give a fair warning as I don't think it would be fair if I could destroy a high level tank with a default class.
I'd say the changes being made should be at a level to level basis rather than just buffing all existing AV weapons.
A level 1 forge gun should be able to easily take out a militia and lvl 1 tank.
It should be balanced by rank of gear, and as it currently stands default equipment is well suited for AV of the same level.
Okay, fine! lets say if they nerfed the AV gear DMG, WHY didn't the HAV's did not get any Nerfing on their DMG also.... Why didn't they get the Splash Range and dmg brought down???!!!??? Thats a Balanced MOVE, Not putting the infantry's DMG output down, and not touching any of the HAV's attacks.... i call that UNBALANCED, and OVERPOWERD! |
madd mudd
41
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Posted - 2012.09.04 18:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
StoneD ReapeR Qc wrote:
Okay, fine! lets say if they nerfed the AV gear DMG, WHY didn't the HAV's did not get any Nerfing on their DMG also.... Why didn't they get the Splash Range and dmg brought down???!!!??? Thats a Balanced MOVE, Not putting the infantry's DMG output down, and not touching any of the HAV's attacks.... i call that UNBALANCED, and OVERPOWERD!
So a tank shouldn't be able to straight up own an infantry unit? |
StoneD ReapeR Qc
Doomheim
16
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Posted - 2012.09.04 18:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
madd mudd wrote:StoneD ReapeR Qc wrote:
Okay, fine! lets say if they nerfed the AV gear DMG, WHY didn't the HAV's did not get any Nerfing on their DMG also.... Why didn't they get the Splash Range and dmg brought down???!!!??? Thats a Balanced MOVE, Not putting the infantry's DMG output down, and not touching any of the HAV's attacks.... i call that UNBALANCED, and OVERPOWERD!
So a tank shouldn't be able to straight up own an infantry unit?
Dude, u said Balance.... and i never said tank shouldnt own an infantry unit, but... needing HALF a team (or more) to take out 1 Tank... that doesnt make any sence!!!! |
Billi Gene
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
130
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Posted - 2012.09.05 03:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
not to put too fine a point on it, but this thread reminds me of another, where some one with a name some what like"Hurrhurr I ran you over" wanted destructible buildings so he could use tanks to shoot people on the other side of a Building....
Currently AV-Specs are still somewhat effective against tanks, you have to know whether the tank is shield or armor to know what weapon to use, but you can make a tank retreat or even destroy it.
Good Tank Pilots don't put their tanks in harms way for too long. Infantry, not tanks, are the hard counter to AV. An AV merc is next to useless if he tangles with infantry.
Hopefully future AV and EWAR will push this even further, whereby tanks on some maps will be relegated to holding a position and sniping, rather then cruising around the map looking for kills. When that balance has been reached AV will become hunter killer insertions, and infantry will will work to protect the tank and its bombardment capabilities.
by "some maps" i refer to maps with easy to reach and/or prolific infantry cover, particularly ambush maps but also some skirmish maps....but not large open maps where a tank can use range and splash damage to destroy AV. |
Billi Gene
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
130
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Posted - 2012.09.05 03:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
as an additional idea for the OP.... try using militia shield-heavy tanks.
fit an active shield repper, and Remember to use it.
Shields have an inherent resistance to explosive damage(swarms), also if you are moving away from an explosive weapon when it goes off, your speed negates some of the explosive damage... if people are fitting the [starter fit] AVsuit, they are sitting ducks for your team, just get under cover and let them die 
if you are able to use HAV's beyond the militia fit, then really militia swarms shouldn't be too much of a problem, just remember to use your repair systems, and move position  |
Titan Marinus
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
2
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Posted - 2012.09.05 05:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
madd mudd wrote:The low level tank is slow and can be out run by the low level LAV.
Personally I haven't used the upgraded AV weapons, so perhaps the Forge Gun and upper level Swarm Launchers should be buffed.
However, I more so think that it should be an equality based on level balance between items rather than just all AV weapons being buffed. I don't think in any instance a default heavy class should be able to take out the high level tank by himself, but he should be able to damage it a bit to where maybe 6 players working together could take it out.
6 players.... as in half the team. So when you run into two tanks who are just driving around endlessly hunting down infantry and never stopping, it should take 12 people to take them down? |
madd mudd
41
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Posted - 2012.09.05 05:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Titan Marinus wrote:6 players.... as in half the team. So when you run into two tanks who are just driving around endlessly hunting down infantry and never stopping, it should take 12 people to take them down?
yeah if they're all running default or militia equipment against a prototype tank.... |
Titan Marinus
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
2
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Posted - 2012.09.05 05:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
What are the odds that 12 guys will be running dedicated AV fittings vs 2 guys running dedicated tanks? |
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Cinder Integ
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
23
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Posted - 2012.09.05 06:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Titan Marinus wrote:What are the odds that 12 guys will be running dedicated AV fittings vs 2 guys running dedicated tanks?
Are you going to continue to argue and complain, or get back on track to being productive? Tanks die, and they die quick. I lost 16 Gunlogi today, my last game I went 50 - 0. There are times when the game is filled with militia garbage that have no chance-providing 50-0 or similar games, there are games when 6 militia swarms rock my world, and there are times when 1 guy with a nanohive and av grenades ruin my day and make me walk away from my controller.
There is so much involving tactics with this game that will take years for the general population to have a grasp on, and with that will come much struggle on finding balances. For now, do not blow things out of proportion. There are some players with 12million SP which are heavily invested in tanks, and their modules.
It is completely understandable that in this phase of beta, there are not many, if any, players who have invested 8+million SP into AV. When launch comes, and players are spending time in corporations as oppose to playing jack of all trades as they run around on their own. There will be dedicated AV. The dedicated AV will have the tools necessary to tank out tanks. With the correct implication of those tools, tanks are just one more thing to play rock paper scissors with. |
Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2012.09.05 07:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Titan Marinus wrote:madd mudd wrote:The low level tank is slow and can be out run by the low level LAV.
Personally I haven't used the upgraded AV weapons, so perhaps the Forge Gun and upper level Swarm Launchers should be buffed.
However, I more so think that it should be an equality based on level balance between items rather than just all AV weapons being buffed. I don't think in any instance a default heavy class should be able to take out the high level tank by himself, but he should be able to damage it a bit to where maybe 6 players working together could take it out. 6 players.... as in half the team. So when you run into two tanks who are just driving around endlessly hunting down infantry and never stopping, it should take 12 people to take them down?
Pretty sad really, considering they only require one to operate.
It's just too much power for a single person. |
Vitriol18
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
56
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Posted - 2012.09.05 14:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kyy Seiska wrote:Titan Marinus wrote:madd mudd wrote:The low level tank is slow and can be out run by the low level LAV.
Personally I haven't used the upgraded AV weapons, so perhaps the Forge Gun and upper level Swarm Launchers should be buffed.
However, I more so think that it should be an equality based on level balance between items rather than just all AV weapons being buffed. I don't think in any instance a default heavy class should be able to take out the high level tank by himself, but he should be able to damage it a bit to where maybe 6 players working together could take it out. 6 players.... as in half the team. So when you run into two tanks who are just driving around endlessly hunting down infantry and never stopping, it should take 12 people to take them down? Pretty sad really, considering they only require one to operate. It's just too much power for a single person.
And then they bring in four tanks so we somehow need to break the server limit to bring in 24 people. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.09.05 14:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Because they're not going to unnerf av damage they're going to nerf something else instead. *Evil Grin. |
Corban Lahnder
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
158
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Posted - 2012.09.05 16:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
A tank pilot speced into one thing and one thing only.
People who branched out into multiple or un AV related specs are being told:
Train AV and stop whining.
One players gameplay choice shouldn't dictate every other players game play choices. That means a new players need to train AV is established before they even start playing.
Think about that for a second.
Imagine if there were no vehicles and on the open maps every sniper told every other class to HTFU and train snipers, when other people could be training, assault, logi or heavy suits.
Do you understand how your argument doesn't make any sense?
Tanks may not need to be nerfed but there needs to be a restriction on how quickly they can be deployed to a battlefield. The engagement needs to build over time. People dont start off with precision strikes they earn them. Thus should it be with vehicles. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Well said Corban. There should be an initial pool of points in addition to earning them. That way pure tankers would have to race to call in their stuff before all those LAV's :D
I think it'd also put more of a focus on using Dropships, especially if they cost less points to bring in. I can sense the "I bought tank I want to use tank" people comming... |
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