DUST Search - PROBLEMS WITH TANK !

Revelations 514 wrote:

I don't think tanks need much of a nerf, and I am not a tank driver. However, some items do need balance.

1. Make sheild tanks a bit slower. As it is, you cannot finish them off as they move about as fast as an LAV. They are extremely mobile and move faster than a scout, which means a smart driver will never lose one as they can take cover and rep very quickly. Armor Tanks are not as mobile, and therefore can be destroyed. Sheild Tanks need to move about the speed of the current Armor Tank, and the Armor Tank a bit slower to compensate. Otherwise, I don't see a need for any other stat changes at this time.

2. Limit the amount of tanks on the battlefield dependent on the map. The numbers are up for debate, but are currently too high. Four tanks on a map with three cap points is a bit much. My suggestion would be to only allow -1 tank per cap point. If a map has 3 cap nodes, then only 2 tanks can be called in ect. This prevents just taking 1 tank to each node and spawn camping it. This would be followed by a hard rule of no more then 3 tanks on any map with the exception of Corp Battles. Ambush could be regulated similarly, although based on size of map rather then nodes.

Just my two cents on logical compromise. The tanks themselves are not really OP, its the amount of them combined with the ability to get away and come back brand new unless you luck out and have AV spread across the battlefield that just so happens to be at the retreating point of the tank. AV should not have to spread the battlefield, just have a concentrated effort from a good vantage point.

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Rafiki 22 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:35:00 - [1] - Quote hello misters devs ! I will be crazy with this tank Tanks are indestructible, too fast for swarm launchers because missiles are too slow! I think that deathmatch tanks should be limited has 1 by team to see totally forbidden. There are too many members of the community (I would not quote from name) which(who) spends time in tank they have score of 30-0 without it shocks nobody. My opinion(notice): too much tank, too hard to destroy, iet he(it) make too much of kill I invite the other players to indicate the abuses with tanks on this comment. Kind regards
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:42:00 - [2] - Quote Oh look. Another nerf rock thread.
Traky78 What The French 115	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:46:00 - [3] - Quote +1 Agree with you bro!
Rafiki 22 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:57:00 - [4] - Quote noc : i'm not a nerf rock just a good players ;) i like this game and I do not want to become some flesh standard for tank, i' m not has gamers vehicles... ( sorry for my bad english but i'm french and i want to do somethings to better this game )
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 134	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:02:00 - [5] - Quote Funny how these threads have become so prolific eh. +1 mate.
Goliath Raven Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 80	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:14:00 - [6] - Quote They already said how they plan on bumping up AV to probable OP status and bringing the nerf hammer down on tank, you guys can calm down now. Hopefully if they do nerf tanks to unusable status, I'll see some of you guys speaking out on our behalf as I have spoke out on yours.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:15:00 - [7] - Quote The tanks need work. Agree 100%. Making them easier to kill is not the answer. I guess with all these threads popping up I will post all my feedback on them later tonight. Going backwards to when they were underhealthed and stronger gunned will make them pointless for organized play and easier to pubstomp with. Seems only the Vietnam in Space guys would want that so let's all be a bit more thoughtful about proposed changes.
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:16:00 - [8] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Oh look. Another nerf rock thread. You know its overpowered so just stop it already Edit: also + 1 op
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:23:00 - [9] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Oh look. Another nerf rock thread. You know its overpowered so just stop it already Edit: also + 1 op You know 99% of the complaints end with "make them go away because they kill me" and not legitimate thoughts on the issue. So my annoyance is warranted.
Rafiki 22 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:25:00 - [10] - Quote great :) More we are to denounce it more developpers will take into account it

Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:27:00 - [11] - Quote Rafiki 22 wrote: great :) More we are to denounce it more developpers will take into account it This is actually false. Consider this a pro tip for wanting attention for any issue. They read the long threads with lots of points more closely than the nerf Rock spam.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:28:00 - [12] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: The tanks need work. Agree 100%. Making them easier to kill is not the answer. I guess with all these threads popping up I will post all my feedback on them later tonight. Going backwards to when they were underhealthed and stronger gunned will make them pointless for organized play and easier to pubstomp with. Seems only the Vietnam in Space guys would want that so let's all be a bit more thoughtful about proposed changes. You either make them easier to kill (reduce their hp, increase AV damage) or you make them less lethal (reduce damage / increase infantry hp). Movement speed is the most subtle way for them to be nerfed. And 70-90% resist all damage needs balancin with the booster/repper. It'll be nice to see how things turn out. gets a tissue ready for all them bad tankers
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:30:00 - [13] - Quote No, the developers are going to ignore you. As they should, because you're (plural "you", not targetting anyone in particular) being moronic. Even if we accept as true that tanks are insurmountably OP; nerfing them at this stage would be stupid. The game isn't finished. In fact it's not even slightly finished. By release, possibly even by the next build, a lot of new tools and weapons are going to make an appearance. Everything we know about infantry vs vehicle balance is going to change drastically over the next few builds without making HAVs more expensive, or separating the driver from the main turret, or any of the other QQ fueled requests I've seen on the forums.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:32:00 - [14] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Rafiki 22 wrote: great :) More we are to denounce it more developpers will take into account it This is actually false. Consider this a pro tip for wanting attention for any issue. They read the long threads with lots of points more closely than the nerf Rock spam. It's actually bang on Noc. If 1 person writes a long clever post, that's still 1 person. 400 people say "omg broken tanks" CCP can investigate why...Less than a week of AV Nerf and the forums are full of FIX IT threads. They have said they will:
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:32:00 - [15] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Oh look. Another nerf rock thread. You know its overpowered so just stop it already Edit: also + 1 op could do with a guy like you in caldari provisions.
Rafiki 22 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:36:00 - [16] - Quote Sha karn clone you are not welcome on this comment you were always the first one to deceive these tanks your friends and you did not come to pollute this comment
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:39:00 - [17] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Rafiki 22 wrote: great :) More we are to denounce it more developpers will take into account it This is actually false. Consider this a pro tip for wanting attention for any issue. They read the long threads with lots of points more closely than the nerf Rock spam. It's actually bang on Noc. If 1 person writes a long clever post, that's still 1 person. 400 people say "omg broken tanks" CCP can investigate why...Less than a week of AV Nerf and the forums are full of FIX IT threads. They have said they will: It is more visible, yes. But it annoys them, takes more of their time, and is less coherent. So if you want to whine, make more threads. If you want to critique and get meaningful fixes, not just hotfixes that delay real solutions, spend the effort to give meaningful feedback in level headed threads (and search to add to one if possible).
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:40:00 - [18] - Quote Relax Rafiki. Sha Kharn agrees with you. As do I. And so do the Devs. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=34744&find=unread Tres Bien. @Noc The whining doesn't apply. It's also the most subtle way to disrupt feedback. CCP can tell whining from useful comments. Sometimes things just don't need a lot of thought or words. Like "gimme back my AV abilities please!" but people call it whining. Show me an argument which hasn't been called whining by the opposition :p I agree with using search and adding to threads instead of starting new ones. Standard forum use (for those who use well moderated respectable forums anyway).
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:49:00 - [19] - Quote Rafiki 22 wrote: Sha karn clone you are not welcome on this comment you were always the first one to deceive these tanks your friends and you did not come to pollute this comment Dude I recon I hate tanks mroe than anyone so on that score maybe I should be commenting.
Revelations 514 Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 38	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:50:00 - [20] - Quote I don't think tanks need much of a nerf, and I am not a tank driver. However, some items do need balance. 1. Make sheild tanks a bit slower. As it is, you cannot finish them off as they move about as fast as an LAV. They are extremely mobile and move faster than a scout, which means a smart driver will never lose one as they can take cover and rep very quickly. Armor Tanks are not as mobile, and therefore can be destroyed. Sheild Tanks need to move about the speed of the current Armor Tank, and the Armor Tank a bit slower to compensate. Otherwise, I don't see a need for any other stat changes at this time. 2. Limit the amount of tanks on the battlefield dependent on the map. The numbers are up for debate, but are currently too high. Four tanks on a map with three cap points is a bit much. My suggestion would be to only allow -1 tank per cap point. If a map has 3 cap nodes, then only 2 tanks can be called in ect. This prevents just taking 1 tank to each node and spawn camping it. This would be followed by a hard rule of no more then 3 tanks on any map with the exception of Corp Battles. Ambush could be regulated similarly, although based on size of map rather then nodes. Just my two cents on logical compromise. The tanks themselves are not really OP, its the amount of them combined with the ability to get away and come back brand new unless you luck out and have AV spread across the battlefield that just so happens to be at the retreating point of the tank. AV should not have to spread the battlefield, just have a concentrated effort from a good vantage point.

Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:52:00 - [21] - Quote @ Noc Tempre I did make a post about this. I didnt even suggest nerfing how Op they are I just suggested a price rise to justify the power they hold. You called me names and wurdswurds wurds. Hope they get hit so dam hard with the nerf bat.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:03:00 - [22] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: @ Noc Tempre I did make a post about this. I didnt even suggest nerfing how Op they are I just suggested a price rise to justify the power they hold. You called me names and wurdswurds wurds. Hope they get hit so dam hard with the nerf bat. They were too easy to kill before. They already have been hit with nerf after nerf and the first real buff balanced the problem with their health but did not address the other issues. The thread I flamed was because you suggested economic balancing which is short sighted and does not actually address the problem. "I win" buttons shouldn't be expensive, they simply need to not exist. Edit: The names were uncalled for. Your idea was bad and reactionary, but that should not translate to an exaggerated assumption of your character. For that I am sorry.
Johnson McCrea Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:03:00 - [23] - Quote You know what's so funny about the tank nerf-hearders? THEIR the ones who are upset that they can't kill a tank with thier free Militia Swarm Launcher. Also, not all tanks are speed deamons. Ever see a Sica try to accellerate? They don't very well, and have nasty top end. Give all tanks the Sica Accell/Speed and you nerfers will be alot happier :)
Goliath Raven Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 80	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:04:00 - [24] - Quote Revelations 514 wrote: I don't think tanks need much of a nerf, and I am not a tank driver. However, some items do need balance. 1. Make sheild tanks a bit slower. As it is, you cannot finish them off as they move about as fast as an LAV. They are extremely mobile and move faster than a scout, which means a smart driver will never lose one as they can take cover and rep very quickly. Armor Tanks are not as mobile, and therefore can be destroyed. Sheild Tanks need to move about the speed of the current Armor Tank, and the Armor Tank a bit slower to compensate. Otherwise, I don't see a need for any other stat changes at this time. 2. Limit the amount of tanks on the battlefield dependent on the map. The numbers are up for debate, but are currently too high. Four tanks on a map with three cap points is a bit much. My suggestion would be to only allow -1 tank per cap point. If a map has 3 cap nodes, then only 2 tanks can be called in ect. This prevents just taking 1 tank to each node and spawn camping it. This would be followed by a hard rule of no more then 3 tanks on any map with the exception of Corp Battles. Ambush could be regulated similarly, although based on size of map rather then nodes. Just my two cents on logical compromise. The tanks themselves are not really OP, its the amount of them combined with the ability to get away and come back brand new unless you luck out and have AV spread across the battlefield that just so happens to be at the retreating point of the tank. AV should not have to spread the battlefield, just have a concentrated effort from a good vantage point. I disagree with your first point, A good tank driver should never lose his tank unless he is prepared to. He should never put his tank in a position he cannot escape. This will change a lot with new AV webbers and such. However, I don't think a tank pop should happen very often. (Maybe this is me speaking as a tank pilot but) It seems to me tanks are meant to be the bosses of the battlefield. People should get rewarded a lot more for damaging ones shields and armor but popping one should be an accomplishment for a squad, not just another kill. That being said, they should probably cost about 10x what they do now and even higher skill requirements would help to reduce the number of uber tanks on the battlefields. Reducing mobility of tanks is silly. Tanks are very mobile and while yes, this is a game that should be balanced, why should you not have to web/use squad tactics/bring out another tank to kill a tank? Mobility nerf just doesn't make sense to me. Because a tank pilot can judge when he has to run from combat we need to make it so he cannot run. Silly.
SHAKHAL 6666 What The French 6	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:26:00 - [25] - Quote agree with first post but becarefull little tank i ll arrive with my friends to kick your ass prepare your isk
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:27:00 - [26] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Sha Kharn Clone wrote: @ Noc Tempre I did make a post about this. I didnt even suggest nerfing how Op they are I just suggested a price rise to justify the power they hold. You called me names and wurdswurds wurds. Hope they get hit so dam hard with the nerf bat. They were too easy to kill before. They already have been hit with nerf after nerf and the first real buff balanced the problem with their health but did not address the other issues. The thread I flamed was because you suggested economic balancing which is short sighted and does not actually address the problem. "I win" buttons shouldn't be expensive, they simply need to not exist. Well no need to worry I'm sure CCP have it in hand. Best get onto IRC quick maybe they still listen to the ow my poor tank carp but I doubt it
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:35:00 - [27] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Sha Kharn Clone wrote: @ Noc Tempre I did make a post about this. I didnt even suggest nerfing how Op they are I just suggested a price rise to justify the power they hold. You called me names and wurdswurds wurds. Hope they get hit so dam hard with the nerf bat. They were too easy to kill before. They already have been hit with nerf after nerf and the first real buff balanced the problem with their health but did not address the other issues. The thread I flamed was because you suggested economic balancing which is short sighted and does not actually address the problem. "I win" buttons shouldn't be expensive, they simply need to not exist. Well no need to worry I'm sure CCP have it in hand. Best get onto IRC quick maybe they still listen to the ow my poor tank carp but I doubt it Before you get your hopes and victory machine revved up, the major changes would be the return of weak spots and increased forge range. In return burning armor will go away and damage mods will work again. Soloing tanks in 3 seconds is not returning.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:42:00 - [28] - Quote Well Noc, that depends on how they balance the reppers and damage reductions. Probably more like 5-7 seconds. Plenty of time to die to splash damage. But a change on boosters/reppers will keep them out of the game longer when they sustain damage. This is good. We'll just have to wait and see.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:49:00 - [29] - Quote "remote reps will also be increased." That refers exclusively to remote armor reps which had longer cycles and essentially 0 cooldown. Active local reps are not implied by that statement.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.04 19:56:00 - [30] - Quote "Balancing modules" means they could do blooming anything lol. Don't damage reduction modules in EvE only work for specific damage types? (oh now that WOULD be interesting). Like I say, we should wait and see. But look at those poor militia heavies. Compare your average heavy now with a heavy from the replication build. About 2/3 less HP, and HMG's / Forgeguns were awesome weapons of terror. It could happen to tanks too, but I doubt it. Simply be prepared to adapt if you have to.

ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 134	Posted - 2012.09.05 02:41:00 - [31] - Quote Johnson, you really should'nt post when you don't know what you're talking about mate, you look foolish. The previous two builds I was full proto swarm and forge with 50 million on the last build. tanks were ridiculous then as they are now.


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