DUST Search - [Suggestion] Tank: Separate the Driver from the main-turret.

Whispercrow wrote:

Quote:

Mobius:The money you spend on an HAV is not a good justification for keeping it from being what it should be: a cooperative vehicle. It should be useless without a second person

Why? Why should it be useless without a second person? Please explain this. Its purpose is not served by it being a mandatorily multiplayer vehicle.

Quote:

Mobius: This game is designed around teamplay, and one-man tanks just helps to emphasize the kind of lone-wolfing that leads to your team losing matches.

It's funny that you say that. Because, when I play matches with a tank, I don't lone wolf at all. That's the fastest way to get killed. I find the knots of guys moving to kill others (deathmatch) or capturing the points and support them. 80% of the time, this leads to my team winning matches. Unless the enemy team has a competant dropship, tank pilot, or AV guys, in which case it's just a standard case of combined arms. Incidentally... that's called "team play", and I can do it without corp/fixed-squad backup.

Quote:

Kyy: That's the whole point of this suggestion.
If tanks need multiple people to take down, they should require multiple people to operate.

Except... they don't. One good player can do it with a proper AV fit (one in a speedy suit instead of a heavy). One decent player can do it with... another tank. It's not like the tank guy is unique. Most of MY tanking is done in Militia-fit equipment (except the turret and Nanos... I'd LOVE a Militia nano).

Quote:

Goric: It's not my problem what "the average player" finds enjoyable. The point isn't to make tank driving fun for everybody. Despite the apparently popular view, this isn't a game about tanks. There will be some people who enjoy and take pride in just driving a tank--like the people who enjoy and take pride in flying dropships.
The guys who are piloting dropships are forking over the same kind of cash. Therefore I don't find this argument convincing

No, but you're making it the average player's problem what YOU find enjoyable, so I don't see much difference.

This game isn't about tanks. It's about warfare, with a variety of options. Tanks are an option. Some people don't like that one person can pilot it. However, forcing it to be a mandatory co-op vehicle is not going to make things better.

As for the dropship comment, check my post. This is already covered. It's not a 'flying tank', a 'gunship', or an 'attack aircraft'. It's a DROPship. It's designed to drop troops. It's not designed as a warship. Modern militaries often have troop-hauling helicopters with door gunners. That doesn't make them attack ships, it makes them troop carriers, exactly like the Dropships they inspired.
If you'd like a role-based counter to your commentary, then consider this: tank can't fly across the map in fifteen seconds and drop 6 guys off to complete annihilate any enemies and take the point they were guarding, either. That's extremely powerful. It also requires teamwork, as it should. Incidentally, a good dropship and gunner can hound a tank to the point where it really can't do much.

If CCP made an attack aircraft (and I hope they do), I seriously hope it can be piloted and fight with a single character. For the record, I hope they make some fast ground attack craft that can do the same. I also wouldn't mind an armored APC that has like 1.5 times a tank's health and only the 2 small turrets, but can hold 5 other guys. A 'ground dropship', as it were. Proably won't happen, but still.

---

As an aside, I agree with Tyas. Vehicles should require skills to USE them, not to FIT them. If you don't have the skills for a missile turret or a Gunnlogi, you should not be able to hop in one and go joyriding in it. In addition, you SHOULD be able to fit things you can't get into, if for no other reason than build experimentation. This would also help 'sort' people so that those with improper skills can't hop into your ride.


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Hiseki Lionel Algintal Core Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2012.09.10 23:47:00 - [1] - Quote Whispercrow wrote: Quote: Mobius:The money you spend on an HAV is not a good justification for keeping it from being what it should be: a cooperative vehicle. It should be useless without a second person Why? Why should it be useless without a second person? Please explain this. Its purpose is not served by it being a mandatorily multiplayer vehicle. Quote: Mobius: This game is designed around teamplay, and one-man tanks just helps to emphasize the kind of lone-wolfing that leads to your team losing matches. It's funny that you say that. Because, when I play matches with a tank, I don't lone wolf at all. That's the fastest way to get killed. I find the knots of guys moving to kill others (deathmatch) or capturing the points and support them. 80% of the time, this leads to my team winning matches. Unless the enemy team has a competant dropship, tank pilot, or AV guys, in which case it's just a standard case of combined arms. Incidentally... that's called "team play", and I can do it without corp/fixed-squad backup. Quote: Kyy: That's the whole point of this suggestion. If tanks need multiple people to take down, they should require multiple people to operate. Except... they don't. One good player can do it with a proper AV fit (one in a speedy suit instead of a heavy). One decent player can do it with... another tank. It's not like the tank guy is unique. Most of MY tanking is done in Militia-fit equipment (except the turret and Nanos... I'd LOVE a Militia nano). Quote: Goric: It's not my problem what "the average player" finds enjoyable. The point isn't to make tank driving fun for everybody. Despite the apparently popular view, this isn't a game about tanks. There will be some people who enjoy and take pride in just driving a tank--like the people who enjoy and take pride in flying dropships. The guys who are piloting dropships are forking over the same kind of cash. Therefore I don't find this argument convincing No, but you're making it the average player's problem what YOU find enjoyable, so I don't see much difference. This game isn't about tanks. It's about warfare, with a variety of options. Tanks are an option. Some people don't like that one person can pilot it. However, forcing it to be a mandatory co-op vehicle is not going to make things better. As for the dropship comment, check my post. This is already covered. It's not a 'flying tank', a 'gunship', or an 'attack aircraft'. It's a DROPship. It's designed to drop troops. It's not designed as a warship. Modern militaries often have troop-hauling helicopters with door gunners. That doesn't make them attack ships, it makes them troop carriers, exactly like the Dropships they inspired. If you'd like a role-based counter to your commentary, then consider this: tank can't fly across the map in fifteen seconds and drop 6 guys off to complete annihilate any enemies and take the point they were guarding, either. That's extremely powerful. It also requires teamwork, as it should. Incidentally, a good dropship and gunner can hound a tank to the point where it really can't do much. If CCP made an attack aircraft (and I hope they do), I seriously hope it can be piloted and fight with a single character. For the record, I hope they make some fast ground attack craft that can do the same. I also wouldn't mind an armored APC that has like 1.5 times a tank's health and only the 2 small turrets, but can hold 5 other guys. A 'ground dropship', as it were. Proably won't happen, but still. --- As an aside, I agree with Tyas. Vehicles should require skills to USE them, not to FIT them. If you don't have the skills for a missile turret or a Gunnlogi, you should not be able to hop in one and go joyriding in it. In addition, you SHOULD be able to fit things you can't get into, if for no other reason than build experimentation. This would also help 'sort' people so that those with improper skills can't hop into your ride. I agree with his points, all of them actually. The last one especially, preventing unskilled players from stealing ones **** is a good idea. At least then you know that the guy driving your tank/dropship isn't a complete moron who's going to play "hit the wall" ten thousand times before being killed. I also agree with the idea for an attack aircraft and having it be piloted by a single char. As far as I know, most fighters can be piloted by one man and frequently are. Now maybe if they made a bomber that would be two players, one focused on flying, while the other focuses on dropping bombs. Or perhaps a gunship, that would work even better. Have it with lower health than a drop ship, but more guns and it becomes balanced yet powerful.