DUST Search - OMG Tanks are OP

Terror Knightsbane wrote:

As yet i hear and see very small numbers of co-orinated attacks on HAV. When i do hear about co-ordinated efforts made against tank the result is they usually die quickly.

Tank are definitively not indestructible, and a co-ordinated attack using forge, swarms + AV grenades will suffice to take them down.

The trick really is utilising the supply depots and changing your Dropsuits as needed. It is very easy to scare tank drivers with a couple of Forge shots, they soon move off, you gain the advantage as they now become the mouse and you the cat. As Dust develops and as more and more squads/teams emerge which undoubtebly they will, tanks will soon become the Primary target and ways to get them down faster will become more prevelant.

All i can say is that having something like the HAV can only encourage teamplay, and as much as i dont like getting killed by tanks especially a second after i spawn (which i see as a spawn point issue not a tank OP issue) i have to say i like the challenge of something so heavy duty on the field.

Tanks are one of the most boring elements in Dust as they are slow and pretty much spam missiles till u hit stuff, there is no real aiming/hiding/reloading/re-supplying going on in the HAV gameplay area cept rolling the tank behind a hill and then back out again, which might score you some kills, but is so boring.

I think of it a little like Cap ships in EVE. Yeah your gonna need more than your average small gang pvp fleet to take one down, your gonna need some neuts and reps and, yes, co-ordination. BUT. Its awesome to take down a couple of carriers in EVE and adds to the satisfaction of the kill.

Make tank kills more special, give better rewards for tank kills, make tanks more expensive, but please dont go on and on about how OP they may or may not be until they are rendered useless!

Keep tanks as they should be, a massive tank with a massive payload, but make it easier to negate this with things like webs/jams and i think neuts+cap should be implemented onto vehicles like the stamina on dropsuits!!!

All the vehicles in Dust need tweaking, so, let CCP look at the stats, KDR and killrates of tanks and let them balance them out in time for release.

As someone who doesnt like being in a tank or being killed by one, hell, i sure do like killing them!!

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
HIGH TIMESsw Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:04:00 - [1] - Quote Looks like everyone running scout suits and shotguns can't kill a tank... good you shoudn't be able too. If you spend a little less time crying on the forums and sending hate mail to people and put some SP into you AV gear you could kill a tank. There are a number of teams that keep tanks at bay a whole match. I have been losing a lot of tanks recently because people are skilling up there Swarmers and Forge guns instead of crying. the other 80% of you come up shooting assault rifles and shot guns and can't damage a tank, then take the time to send me mail and post on every tank topic that tanks killed you.... If both sides have tanks and AV the match is a lot more interesting... but if all of you run around like rats in a cage and refuse to AV up then yeah tanks will be OP. Just keep firing your militia swarmers and taking pot shots with your guns, I'm sure you'll take down the $2.5M Sagaris. It seems that only the loudest cry babies make their way onto the forums.... but you see this in every shooter... I hate that guy , and what he is doing because it's effective, nerf this so it doesn't kill me. If you want tanks to kill you keep doing these things.... 1. Run up to the tank firing your gun, or shoot your gun from behind him to let the tank know just where you are. 2. Stand out in the open with your militia swarm launcher 3. Don't use your mics 4. Don't work together 5. Have 1 guy dedicated to AV 6. Post on every topic about how tanks drivers have no skill 7. After every match send mail to the guy in the tank to use a gun, because that's what you do. 8. Don't run a balanced team of Tanks and AV 9. run up and jump on top the tank to mess up his camera, and then it backs up and murders you. 10. Drive up shooting with a militia LAV (tank fodder). Tank drivers don't pad there KD, its all you super scout suit users doing those awesome tactics I listed. As for skill, my rifle earned the sp to get that tank, and I am going to use it, but please do keep the mail coming, lets me know I am doing the right thing, also I keep a special eye out for those people too, it's like a double kill when I see your name up top.
STB-LURCHASAURUS EV Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 173	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:07:00 - [2] - Quote just had a VERY fun match with a squad of av guys who were trying to kill me. had the temporary av nerf not been in effect, they would absolutely have gotten me. very well done guys if you are reading this. i salute you. you are the proud few, keep it up.
SMiTTYCO Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:11:00 - [3] - Quote Tanks are over powered there is no denying it, having said that yes I have a tank, and I've never lost it (other than bad furry shooting it down before it even comes in). If the driver is speced in tanks and knows how to build a decent tank then there is no killing him, not in this build at least.
STB-Kaios Family EV SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 12	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:13:00 - [4] - Quote lol got ganged by a group of 6-8 av guys good show av nades swarm launchers and forge guns was good fun
SMiTTYCO Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:22:00 - [5] - Quote STB-Kaios Family EV wrote: lol got ganged by a group of 6-8 av guys good show av nades swarm launchers and forge guns was good fun The odds of half of the team having decent av to be able to take you out are very slim, yeah it could happen but not likely at all and doesn't seem too fair that you would have to dedicate 50% of your team to taking out vehicles in order to kill a tank
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:31:00 - [6] - Quote A lot of people are misusing the word "overpowered". In EVE and DUST, "overpowered" means better than other options at a similar price. If Minmatar HAVs were straight up better than those of other races, that would be imbalanced, for instance. One person on foot vs a tank should be heavily skewed toward the tank, because that's what tanks are for, and that's why they cost as much as they do.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:31:00 - [7] - Quote The health vs av weapons is better than it used to be. However, as a whole they are too generically useful since they can one shot everything easily and the maps have no interior high ground to bunker into. The missile damage is too high, especially the direct damage amounts. The camera jerk should not be added in conjunction with such high damage. The railgun has too much splash damage radius. And the maps are essentially all open ground sans 3 rooms between two maps. Tanks shouldn't be dropped by one person in 3 seconds easily, so I think the AV damage nerf was justified. Right now there is so little a tank can't do, that infantry are sorely undervalued. The lack of free dropships also is discouraging people from getting to the high ground, but that is silly. Invest 150k to take down 1M+ before crying too hard. The biggest issue is maps and objectives. The second issue is the anti-everything stats of the HAV weapons. There are other issues but SP sinks, WP nerfs, and ISK costs will never solve them. Tanks can't clear facilities. We are fighting to take over (not demolish) facilities. So make more actual facilities before we start down the road of expensive coffins with big guns like they used to be.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:34:00 - [8] - Quote Lets place the tank issue in ambush and not ponit control maps.
STB-LURCHASAURUS EV Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 173	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:36:00 - [9] - Quote i support a reduction of the railgun splash from 5 meters to 3. there is so much that we need to set aside for now considering we still need ewar, which will change EVERYTHING. other than that, theres a lot of people butthurt right now. they dont like that a tank can do tank things since they are not used to it and the only other worthwhile game with tanks like this is BF which has loltanks.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:37:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Lets place the tank issue in ambush and not ponit control maps. No vehicle ambush maps are on the official docket. Both will be available in the future, so I don't think there is any need to rebalance around that.

The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:39:00 - [11] - Quote lol Av weapons are a joke at the moment. Dont even bother with that crap. The only reason why tanks got destroyed in the last build was that people camped on top of buildings where you are very hard to kill. Now that dropships are very rare in a match and actually cost you quite a good amount you dont see those guys anymore. Well you can still do it ive once did it on the old skirmish map with a few guys from my squad. Called in a militia dropship, used a drop uplink and a nano hive together with a swarm launcher. We where aible to take out Nova knife's eryx, his sagaris and one of his mates gunnlogis. The bad thing is not every map has such good buildings to camp. on the skirmish map that has communication on it you can set up a AV camp on top of the building, on the biomass skirmish map there are some towers to get on and you have a very good overview from there. On the map with the spikes you can try to get on top of one o those towers but you have 0 cover from snipers.
wathak 514 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2012.09.04 05:53:00 - [12] - Quote Im a dropship pilot and a pretty dam good one 2. Though im not in a tank i have also seen 1 of 2 things, A) noone ever brins out av fits so my dropship rules the entire map, or B) the entire map is crawling with av fits and tanks specfically gunning for me. Situation A is no fun for me i like dogging everyones fire while still giveing my gunners kill this is a boring game where i usually end up flying laps around the map pretending im some future version of a nascar racer cause all my targets are playing cod not dust so i can just hover 20 ft in the middle of the field without worry. Situation B on the other hand are the most enjoyable cause im am focused on keeping my 500k isk bird in the air. This takes skills and practice and skills. So much more fun when the enemy wishes to coordinate to win the match. Long story short any vehicle will seem overpowered if u and ur team insists on just playing cod instead of playing dust.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.09.04 06:20:00 - [13] - Quote problem arises from different issues. lets examine. ppl playing pub games will find tanks impossible to take down because the other randoms on ur team have no teamwork, dont spec into AV stuff etc the corp battles we have played while no marauders were called in we did have 3 tanks to deal with 1 match and we had none and those tanks got ****** Flux nades are bugged atm, caps arent in atm, webifier mines arent in atm, not too many dropship pilots atm all these play a factor into the OP tank QQ dont get me wrong i think as it is now tanking is easy, BUT ppl need to LOOK at the future and realise alot of stuff either not working as intended or not in yet once flux nades properly work u throw a couple of those on a tank drop its shields + slow their movement then spam with swarms/forge and av nades and its down when webifier mines are added tankers will have another thing they gotta worry about and will have to pay attention to the road in front of em when caps are added this will be the biggest change to vehicles in the game, altho i expect it might be tweaked from how i was told it works in EVE still gonna change up vehicles alot imo. Tanks etc wont be able to constantly fire and spam missiles etc and activate modules non stop like they are doing now and when energy nuetralizers are added thats another thing, drain the caps from a vehicle and its rendered useless. look at the bigger picture ppl, tank health is fine imho, its the stuff i just pointed out that we need working and added to really start on things. same way u cant begin to balance weapons without hit detection 100% is the same u cant start to balance vehicles without all the vehicle stuff in place.
Lixet The Craniac Naloran Project 50	Posted - 2012.09.04 06:27:00 - [14] - Quote Another thing, when you notice your squad does not have any mic or anyone talking. Try going to team chat, and see if anyone else there is chatting and coordinate with him. Seriously Tanks are OP if you are just charging straight at it, but get a squad of guys chucking AV, and most likely deal enough damage to force the tank to bank off.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.09.04 06:35:00 - [15] - Quote Lixet wrote: Another thing, when you notice your squad does not have any mic or anyone talking. Try going to team chat, and see if anyone else there is chatting and coordinate with him. Seriously Tanks are OP if you are just charging straight at it, but get a squad of guys chucking AV, and most likely deal enough damage to force the tank to bank off. exactly , u dont need to destroy a tank to make it ineffective all game tbh it will back up after taking alot of dmg, restock ur nades etc and when he comes to try again force him to back off again, chances are he might get frustrated and overpush or chances are a couple of ur guys can flank and prepare for when hes backin off to spam more at him before he can fully regen worked for us in the corp battles. another problem ppl have is that they REFUSE to drop their Assault Rifles for a swarm launcher
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.09.04 07:05:00 - [16] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: dont get me wrong i think as it is now tanking is easy, BUT ppl need to LOOK at the future and realise alot of stuff either not working as intended or not in yet But we want things fixed now to satisfy our need for instant gratification! We're so used to getting things how we want them, when we want them, like instant movie, music or latex donkey pornography downloads. NERF EVERYTHING!!!1! P.S. Just in case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic.
HIGH TIMESsw Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.09.04 12:36:00 - [17] - Quote The best AV weapon you can invest in is another tank.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.04 12:47:00 - [18] - Quote We can't look at the future. We can't balance stuff with EWAR. Why didn't CCP throw in webifiers this build? They've had them for ages... IMHO it's because you can't have EWAR as the balancing factor. 3 things matter more than anything in FPS. Damage, health and delivery method. Lots of people talk about DPS. Alpha > dps. If the basics are off in these areas, ewar will just stuff the balance even more. What happens when vehicles get EWAR mods too? Flux generator for an armour tank? The possibilities are endless, so IMHO, we should give feedback on what IS currently available. It's all subject to change anyway.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.09.04 14:16:00 - [19] - Quote Had the enemy team bring in 2 standard HAV's on the otherside of a ridge from me once, so I called down my gunnlogi and killed them before they could make any meaningful change on the battlefield. Quit ******* whining or GTFO.
HIGH TIMESsw Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:14:00 - [20] - Quote STB-Kaios Family EV wrote: lol got ganged by a group of 6-8 av guys good show av nades swarm launchers and forge guns was good fun LoL i lost 7 tanks in the corps battles... the best one... I was on top of the mountain looking at B, trying to kill a forge gunner and couldn't do it, then out of no where 5 guys surrounded me and tossed AV grenades at the same time and the proto forge smashed me. Was a very well coordinated attack.

StoneD ReapeR Qc Doomheim 16	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:25:00 - [21] - Quote STB-LURCHASAURUS EV wrote: just had a VERY fun match with a squad of av guys who were trying to kill me. had the temporary av nerf not been in effect, they would absolutely have gotten me. very well done guys if you are reading this. i salute you. you are the proud few, keep it up. How much Shield and armor u got on ur dam tank????? and yha u might of gotten my swarms on ur butt!! But aint it nice how they just Tickle you??? But Seriously!!! You guys don't have to take out 2-3 tanks in a battle to **** us off, till they fix all this crap it would be nice seeing 1 tank at a time.....
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:52:00 - [22] - Quote StoneD ReapeR Qc wrote: STB-LURCHASAURUS EV wrote: just had a VERY fun match with a squad of av guys who were trying to kill me. had the temporary av nerf not been in effect, they would absolutely have gotten me. very well done guys if you are reading this. i salute you. you are the proud few, keep it up. How much Shield and armor u got on ur dam tank????? and yha u might of gotten my swarms on ur butt!! But aint it nice how they just Tickle you??? But Seriously!!! You guys don't have to take out 2-3 tanks in a battle to **** us off, till they fix all this crap it would be nice seeing 1 tank at a time..... I want more shotgun fights. Limit snipers and ARs to one per battle too.
Terror Knightsbane Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2012.09.04 19:05:00 - [23] - Quote As yet i hear and see very small numbers of co-orinated attacks on HAV. When i do hear about co-ordinated efforts made against tank the result is they usually die quickly. Tank are definitively not indestructible, and a co-ordinated attack using forge, swarms + AV grenades will suffice to take them down. The trick really is utilising the supply depots and changing your Dropsuits as needed. It is very easy to scare tank drivers with a couple of Forge shots, they soon move off, you gain the advantage as they now become the mouse and you the cat. As Dust develops and as more and more squads/teams emerge which undoubtebly they will, tanks will soon become the Primary target and ways to get them down faster will become more prevelant. All i can say is that having something like the HAV can only encourage teamplay, and as much as i dont like getting killed by tanks especially a second after i spawn (which i see as a spawn point issue not a tank OP issue) i have to say i like the challenge of something so heavy duty on the field. Tanks are one of the most boring elements in Dust as they are slow and pretty much spam missiles till u hit stuff, there is no real aiming/hiding/reloading/re-supplying going on in the HAV gameplay area cept rolling the tank behind a hill and then back out again, which might score you some kills, but is so boring. I think of it a little like Cap ships in EVE. Yeah your gonna need more than your average small gang pvp fleet to take one down, your gonna need some neuts and reps and, yes, co-ordination. BUT. Its awesome to take down a couple of carriers in EVE and adds to the satisfaction of the kill. Make tank kills more special, give better rewards for tank kills, make tanks more expensive, but please dont go on and on about how OP they may or may not be until they are rendered useless! Keep tanks as they should be, a massive tank with a massive payload, but make it easier to negate this with things like webs/jams and i think neuts+cap should be implemented onto vehicles like the stamina on dropsuits!!! All the vehicles in Dust need tweaking, so, let CCP look at the stats, KDR and killrates of tanks and let them balance them out in time for release. As someone who doesnt like being in a tank or being killed by one, hell, i sure do like killing them!!
StoneD ReapeR Qc Doomheim 16	Posted - 2012.09.04 19:15:00 - [24] - Quote Terror Knightsbane wrote: As yet i hear and see very small numbers of co-orinated attacks on HAV. When i do hear about co-ordinated efforts made against tank the result is they usually die quickly. Tank are definitively not indestructible, and a co-ordinated attack using forge, swarms + AV grenades will suffice to take them down. The trick really is utilising the supply depots and changing your Dropsuits as needed. It is very easy to scare tank drivers with a couple of Forge shots, they soon move off, you gain the advantage as they now become the mouse and you the cat. As Dust develops and as more and more squads/teams emerge which undoubtebly they will, tanks will soon become the Primary target and ways to get them down faster will become more prevelant. All i can say is that having something like the HAV can only encourage teamplay, and as much as i dont like getting killed by tanks especially a second after i spawn (which i see as a spawn point issue not a tank OP issue) i have to say i like the challenge of something so heavy duty on the field. Tanks are one of the most boring elements in Dust as they are slow and pretty much spam missiles till u hit stuff, there is no real aiming/hiding/reloading/re-supplying going on in the HAV gameplay area cept rolling the tank behind a hill and then back out again, which might score you some kills, but is so boring. I think of it a little like Cap ships in EVE. Yeah your gonna need more than your average small gang pvp fleet to take one down, your gonna need some neuts and reps and, yes, co-ordination. BUT. Its awesome to take down a couple of carriers in EVE and adds to the satisfaction of the kill. Make tank kills more special, give better rewards for tank kills, make tanks more expensive, but please dont go on and on about how OP they may or may not be until they are rendered useless! Keep tanks as they should be, a massive tank with a massive payload, but make it easier to negate this with things like webs/jams and i think neuts+cap should be implemented onto vehicles like the stamina on dropsuits!!! All the vehicles in Dust need tweaking, so, let CCP look at the stats, KDR and killrates of tanks and let them balance them out in time for release. As someone who doesnt like being in a tank or being killed by one, hell, i sure do like killing them!! What are you supposed to do, when more then Half ur team don't have Mics???? Make Bigger Squads and then ull see better teamwork!
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.09.04 19:47:00 - [25] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: StoneD ReapeR Qc wrote: STB-LURCHASAURUS EV wrote: just had a VERY fun match with a squad of av guys who were trying to kill me. had the temporary av nerf not been in effect, they would absolutely have gotten me. very well done guys if you are reading this. i salute you. you are the proud few, keep it up. How much Shield and armor u got on ur dam tank????? and yha u might of gotten my swarms on ur butt!! But aint it nice how they just Tickle you??? But Seriously!!! You guys don't have to take out 2-3 tanks in a battle to **** us off, till they fix all this crap it would be nice seeing 1 tank at a time..... I want more shotgun fights. Limit snipers and ARs to one per battle too. Shotguns are OP. Nova Knife's only.
RolyatDerTeufel D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 1648	Posted - 2012.09.04 19:53:00 - [26] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: StoneD ReapeR Qc wrote: STB-LURCHASAURUS EV wrote: just had a VERY fun match with a squad of av guys who were trying to kill me. had the temporary av nerf not been in effect, they would absolutely have gotten me. very well done guys if you are reading this. i salute you. you are the proud few, keep it up. How much Shield and armor u got on ur dam tank????? and yha u might of gotten my swarms on ur butt!! But aint it nice how they just Tickle you??? But Seriously!!! You guys don't have to take out 2-3 tanks in a battle to **** us off, till they fix all this crap it would be nice seeing 1 tank at a time..... I want more shotgun fights. Limit snipers and ARs to one per battle too. man just make everyone run at the tanks with knifes and make it easier for everyone to get the games over with.
Terror Knightsbane Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2012.09.04 19:58:00 - [27] - Quote StoneD ReapeR Qc wrote: What are you supposed to do, when more then Half ur team don't have Mics???? Make Bigger Squads and then ull see better teamwork! If people actually used all available ingame tools as they stand, no mic is needed, squad commanders can designate any onfield player or structure as a target. That is what your supposed to do. I'm not saying its perfect as it stands, but players seem to think that this current build is DUST as it will be on commerical release, which i think you would be naive and rash to rant on about how something that is currently not perfect for the beta players to be drastically changed for when DUST is finally released. I myself made a light hearted thread about tank spammers to try and get some views on this a while ago but was torn down as a troll because i worded it in a fashion that didnt get people thinking. There is more to my point than just the HAV. Another example is the isk ratio that was in place at the start of this build. As soon as DUST is fully integrated with EVE and players can give and recieve ISK+AUR from any account, this problem is soon gone as ISK is easily attainable in EVE and that means that prices that seem extremely high whilst this is still in the beta process will seem insanely cheap once we are on tranquility and billions are lost in a few minutes of an EVE battle. Im not saying things all things are as they should be with tanks either, but i do think that the HAV shouldn't be turned into something its not, underpowered useless non-scary battlefield garnish. PS - Bigger teams does not in any way shape or form mean better teamwork.
Corban Lahnder ZionTCD Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:00:00 - [28] - Quote As it stands right now in matches which ever team get more non militia HAVs on the field first wins. Id consider that a problem. HAV's should never be the only determinant in deciding the outcome of a match.
D3LTA NORMANDY Doomheim 101	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:33:00 - [29] - Quote HIGH TIMESsw wrote: If both sides have tanks and AV the match is a lot more interesting... but if all of you run around like rats in a cage and refuse to AV up then yeah tanks will be OP. Just keep firing your militia swarmers and taking pot shots with your guns, I'm sure you'll take down the $2.5M Sagaris. Its easy to say it but its hard to do it. The problem is that nearly every good tnak driver knows the others. I had a couple of battles today where always the same people, Tyas Borg, Amazing Stormrage and two other people those names I dont remember,were with 1 Sagaris and 3 Gunnlogi on the battlefield. We had therefore many people with protosuits and ARs but they do nothing.
HIGH TIMESsw Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.09.04 22:07:00 - [30] - Quote D3LTA NORMANDY wrote: HIGH TIMESsw wrote: If both sides have tanks and AV the match is a lot more interesting... but if all of you run around like rats in a cage and refuse to AV up then yeah tanks will be OP. Just keep firing your militia swarmers and taking pot shots with your guns, I'm sure you'll take down the $2.5M Sagaris. Its easy to say it but its hard to do it. The problem is that nearly every good tnak driver knows the others. I had a couple of battles today where always the same people, Tyas Borg, Amazing Stormrage and two other people those names I dont remember,were with 1 Sagaris and 3 Gunnlogi on the battlefield. We had therefore many people with protosuits and ARs but they do nothing. The fun really starts for those tank drivers when they see the RED tank symbol coming in... Who is it? what are they running? We much rather see an opposing tank at our level than have 5 tanks on our team. The most interesting thing that happens with 5 tanks on your team is, who is gonna get in who's way. Now a battle where 5 tanks show up against 5 tanks... now that could get interesting. When we kill 2-3 tanks in a match we can be happy knowing we just kept "our team" from getting tank smashed. When they nerf tanks there will be an outcry on forums for something else that is OP. Over and Over the cycle will continue. No one ever stops to consider that maybe, just maybe, they're not good at video games.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page