DUST Search - Skill Tutorials!? I Don't know how to work this thing!?!?

Phosphorus Arkadios wrote:

Kelshaw Xu wrote:

Phosphorus Arkadios wrote:

I understand the concept of skills... it makes sense. You need to learn things to get better at them, but I don't understand the system behind it.

What are skillbooks for? Why are they SO FREAKING EXPENSIVE!?!? It takes up nearly all of my money! (~400k!!). What the hell does that multiplier modifier do!? I keep trying to figure this thing out, but for the life of me, it doesn't make sense. I searched the forums and (and the "manual") and couldn't find any in depth explanations.

Skill Books are for learning skills you do not yet know. you will only ever have to buy a skill book once. That skill can be leveled to 5.

The multiplier is how many more times the skill is going to cost in Skill Points, compared to a x1 skill. like Mechanics.

note that many skills require you to know other skills before you can learn them. a good example might be you will never learn calculus if you never learned basic math and algebra.

so with that in mind do not buy skills with a red X next to the name, until your ready for them.

That makes sense... but... why can't they just get rid of the uneccessary crap from the screen? Why not get rid of that "multiplier" and just have it say "100,000" instead of "25,000(x4)"

It's 100% unnecessary. Unless that multiplier value changes, I don't see why it's needed.

Why even GIVE the option to buy multiple skillbooks? If you only need to buy them once then why let you buy 10? Does it benefit one to get more??

I don't mind the complexity of the game (in fact, I miss this level of complexity in games) but some things just seem completely redundant or useless, it causes clutter, and causes people looking into the game to turn away.

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Phosphorus Arkadios Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2012.09.03 04:00:00 - [1] - Quote I understand the concept of skills... it makes sense. You need to learn things to get better at them, but I don't understand the system behind it. What are skillbooks for? Why are they SO FREAKING EXPENSIVE!?!? It takes up nearly all of my money! (~400k!!). What the hell does that multiplier modifier do!? I keep trying to figure this thing out, but for the life of me, it doesn't make sense. I searched the forums and (and the "manual") and couldn't find any in depth explanations.
Kyromus Lyndis Kytaar Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 27	Posted - 2012.09.03 04:06:00 - [2] - Quote Skill books teach your character how to utilize the skill, you then have to invest skill points into the skills. The multipliers are just that. They multiply the amount of skill points needed to upgrade the skill. As for the money issue that's pretty null... Run as militia for a few games, you only get isk.
Phosphorus Arkadios Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2012.09.03 04:08:00 - [3] - Quote Kyromus Lyndis Kytaar wrote: Skill books teach your character how to utilize the skill, you then have to invest skill points into the skills. The multipliers are just that. They multiply the amount of skill points needed to upgrade the skill. As for the money issue that's pretty null... Run as militia for a few games, you only get isk. Why is the cost of the book multiplied by that as well? Why don't they just show the actual price instead of the "multiplier" thing. It's just uneccessary text on the screen. Is there a way to LOWER the multiplier costs? And why can you buy MULTIPLE skillbooks of the same type?
Kelshaw Xu ZionTCD Legacy Rising 65	Posted - 2012.09.03 04:12:00 - [4] - Quote Phosphorus Arkadios wrote: I understand the concept of skills... it makes sense. You need to learn things to get better at them, but I don't understand the system behind it. What are skillbooks for? Why are they SO FREAKING EXPENSIVE!?!? It takes up nearly all of my money! (~400k!!). What the hell does that multiplier modifier do!? I keep trying to figure this thing out, but for the life of me, it doesn't make sense. I searched the forums and (and the "manual") and couldn't find any in depth explanations. Skill Books are for learning skills you do not yet know. you will only ever have to buy a skill book once. That skill can be leveled to 5. The multiplier is how many more times the skill is going to cost in Skill Points, compared to a x1 skill. like Mechanics. note that many skills require you to know other skills before you can learn them. a good example might be you will never learn calculus if you never learned basic math and algebra. so with that in mind do not buy skills with a red X next to the name, until your ready for them.
Phosphorus Arkadios Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2012.09.03 04:19:00 - [5] - Quote Kelshaw Xu wrote: Phosphorus Arkadios wrote: I understand the concept of skills... it makes sense. You need to learn things to get better at them, but I don't understand the system behind it. What are skillbooks for? Why are they SO FREAKING EXPENSIVE!?!? It takes up nearly all of my money! (~400k!!). What the hell does that multiplier modifier do!? I keep trying to figure this thing out, but for the life of me, it doesn't make sense. I searched the forums and (and the "manual") and couldn't find any in depth explanations. Skill Books are for learning skills you do not yet know. you will only ever have to buy a skill book once. That skill can be leveled to 5. The multiplier is how many more times the skill is going to cost in Skill Points, compared to a x1 skill. like Mechanics. note that many skills require you to know other skills before you can learn them. a good example might be you will never learn calculus if you never learned basic math and algebra. so with that in mind do not buy skills with a red X next to the name, until your ready for them. That makes sense... but... why can't they just get rid of the uneccessary crap from the screen? Why not get rid of that "multiplier" and just have it say "100,000" instead of "25,000(x4)" It's 100% unnecessary. Unless that multiplier value changes, I don't see why it's needed. Why even GIVE the option to buy multiple skillbooks? If you only need to buy them once then why let you buy 10? Does it benefit one to get more?? I don't mind the complexity of the game (in fact, I miss this level of complexity in games) but some things just seem completely redundant or useless, it causes clutter, and causes people looking into the game to turn away.
Kelshaw Xu ZionTCD Legacy Rising 65	Posted - 2012.09.03 04:27:00 - [6] - Quote Phosphorus Arkadios wrote: Kelshaw Xu wrote: Phosphorus Arkadios wrote: I understand the concept of skills... it makes sense. You need to learn things to get better at them, but I don't understand the system behind it. What are skillbooks for? Why are they SO FREAKING EXPENSIVE!?!? It takes up nearly all of my money! (~400k!!). What the hell does that multiplier modifier do!? I keep trying to figure this thing out, but for the life of me, it doesn't make sense. I searched the forums and (and the "manual") and couldn't find any in depth explanations. Skill Books are for learning skills you do not yet know. you will only ever have to buy a skill book once. That skill can be leveled to 5. The multiplier is how many more times the skill is going to cost in Skill Points, compared to a x1 skill. like Mechanics. note that many skills require you to know other skills before you can learn them. a good example might be you will never learn calculus if you never learned basic math and algebra. so with that in mind do not buy skills with a red X next to the name, until your ready for them. That makes sense... but... why can't they just get rid of the uneccessary crap from the screen? Why not get rid of that "multiplier" and just have it say "100,000" instead of "25,000(x4)" It's 100% unnecessary. Unless that multiplier value changes, I don't see why it's needed. Why even GIVE the option to buy multiple skillbooks? If you only need to buy them once then why let you buy 10? Does it benefit one to get more?? I don't mind the complexity of the game (in fact, I miss this level of complexity in games) but some things just seem completely redundant or useless, it causes clutter, and causes people looking into the game to turn away. For many of us, the skill system is something we are used to. This system is related to EvE's system. nearly mirrored. the multiplier is really a gauge for you as a player. "How long will it take to learn a x5 skill?" (x1 skill) x5 = x5 skill at lvl 1 it will always tell you how many SP for the next lvl. I know its frustrating you cant trash or sell off clutter. but its beta and ccp says Soon TM.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.09.03 04:30:00 - [7] - Quote Phosphorus Arkadios wrote: Why even GIVE the option to buy multiple skillbooks? If you only need to buy them once then why let you buy 10? Does it benefit one to get more?? I don't mind the complexity of the game (in fact, I miss this level of complexity in games) but some things just seem completely redundant or useless, it causes clutter, and causes people looking into the game to turn away. It might be that the idea behind being able to get multiple copies is so players can buy and sell them on a player run market.
Kelshaw Xu ZionTCD Legacy Rising 65	Posted - 2012.09.03 04:34:00 - [8] - Quote That too. as a Low Sec Pirate in EvE i have had to buy Minmatar Skill books from players in Amarr space. It was worth the ISK cause i couldn't goto High Sec. what would normally be a 2 jump run. i had to jump 52 times to get to the first school that sold the book i wanted
Phosphorus Arkadios Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2012.09.03 04:35:00 - [9] - Quote Kelshaw Xu wrote: For many of us, the skill system is something we are used to. This system is related to EvE's system. nearly mirrored. the multiplier is really a gauge for you as a player. "How long will it take to learn a x5 skill?" (x1 skill) x5 = x5 skill at lvl 1 it will always tell you how many SP for the next lvl. I know its frustrating you cant trash or sell off clutter. but its beta and ccp says Soon TM. I guess that multiplier makes sense when you mention it that way. Like a skillset that becomes exponentially more expensive, to the power of 3, as opposed to scaling to the power of 2. Aighun wrote: It might be that the idea behind being able to get multiple copies is so players can buy and sell them on a player run market. So the skills menu fluctuates like the market as well? Otherwise, I don't see the point in selling skillbooks if they stay the same price... I'm new to this so I wouldn't know. EDIT: It's interesting to see the skillbook be a part of the market.
MrShooter01 Expert Intervention Caldari State 268	Posted - 2012.09.03 04:50:00 - [10] - Quote Phosphorus Arkadios wrote: So the skills menu fluctuates like the market as well? Otherwise, I don't see the point in selling skillbooks if they stay the same price... I'm new to this so I wouldn't know. EDIT: It's interesting to see the skillbook be a part of the market. With the way the market in dust works right now it doesn't make any sense to sell skillbooks, beyond just recovering some isk if you accidentally bought the same book twice (in that situation you could put the extra skillbooks up for sale at 1 isk below the normal selling price and get your money back from some other player in a few minutes) In EVE skillbooks must be bought from specific space stations, and there can sometimes be barriers to access them. They are sold at a static price by computer characters with a limitless supply, but ONLY from a small set of space stations. For example, you can only directly buy laser weapon specialization books from these "school stations" in Amarr space. If you are outside of Amarr space and want to buy that skill book, your only options are to fly your ship all the way out to yonder holy lands to pick it up, or buy it from another player who shipped a bunch of copies to a local station specifically to sell to pilots like you for a small profit. Right now there is only one market in dust, but in the future they might make what you can buy restricted to where your mercenary... is. Somehow.

byte modal Algintal Core Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2012.09.03 05:46:00 - [11] - Quote You can probably find quite a bit more reference material by googling Eve-Online skill books or something topical. Just keep in mind that EVE handles skills slightly differently than Dust in that EVE starts adding skill points once you inject a skill book. In dust, you collect the points first, then apply them. The modifiers may make more sense if you understand that this logic starts with EVE. Using skills books as EVE does as a starting point of reference, let's say that I want to drive a BMW. To accomplish this, I would need all prerequisites for driving this car. To keep things in perspective, let's say those prerequisites include the skills Walking (1x modifier), Driving (2x modifier), and BMW Specialization (3x modifier). I will not be able to train BMW Specialization until I have trained Driving, which also requires that I first train Walking. With this example, Walking being the most basic skill has only a 1x modifier. This will train the fastest of the three. Driving, with a modifier of 2x, will require twice as much time invested as the basic skill Walking. BMW Specialization will require 3x as much time invested as the basic skill Walking. EACH skill can also be trained from a level of 0 to 5 to gain additional spec benefits as listed in that particular skill's description. These levels are not the same as time modifiers. Within EVE, let's say the skill BMW Specialization requires Driving level 2 as a prerequisite. Driving, on the other hand, requires that Walking be trained to level 5 as prerequisite. In this case, I would have to spend time waiting for Walking to level up 5 times, just to be able to train Driving. Then I would have to spend time to get Driving up to at least level 2 to access BMW Specialization. Once I have BMW Specialization trained up, I may want to customize and gain additional, more specialized skills to boost my BMW stats. Perhaps I could train Manual Transmission (4x modifier) or even Nitro (5x modifier). Hopefully you are seeing that the more specialized the skill book, the higher the modifier is and, ultimately, requiring more time investment for payoff. Also, the more valuable the skill for these smaller, more unique tweeks to stats. As an EVE player, I would purchase the skill book, inject it, and start training it. This skill trains passively as I continue playing the game, even if I'm logged off. The time modifier gives a good reference point for at this time to estimate training time. for a 1x modifier, perhaps Level 1 takes 1 minute; Level 2: 15 minutes; Level 3; 1 hour; Level 4: 8 hours; Level 5: 17 hours. Please note these are just random numbers for the sake of this example. If a skill has a 2x modifier, then you can assume that THAT particular skill will require twice as much time per level. A skill with a 3x modifier will of course require three-times as much as the base skill. This is where we are coming from. The basic difference with Dust is that you earn skill points both passively over time and actively by game objectives, kills, etc. You are not required to first inject a skill book to start earning those points. Here in Dust, you just earn them and can apply them to whatever skill book you want, as long as you already meet any prerequisites. The modifier still works the same way at its core, it's just not as obvious here in Dust as you don't have to wait 3x as long for the skill. Well, technically you DO, but you've already invested that time playing the game. Once you apply those skill points to your desired skill, it appears instantly. My guess it is this relationship that is causing your confusion. Regarding buying multiple copies, keep in mind that EVE is the universe these skills come from. Using the example from above, let's say that you still want to train BMW Specialization. You live in Australia. The skill book you want is only available in the U.K., for whatever reason. You can choose to fly all the way to the U.K. yourself to purchase and train this desired skill, or you can pay someone else to make that journey for you because you don't want to be bothered to spend the time, risk any PVP along the way, or it's time for sleep. I, as a third-party player, may realize that there is a demand for this skill book in your area and can try to leverage this to my gain. I could by a stock of these skill books at a price of 100isk, make the long dangerous trek to your location, and post them on the market there. In that I have no competition in your area, I can set whatever price I want. Perhaps I will charge 10,000isk per book in your area. You have the option to spend time travelling to save money, or pay my ridiculous prices to save time and continue playing your game. This is EVE. Well, it's a small part of EVE, but this will eventually be part of Dust too I assume. I know that's a chunk to read, but I hope that it helps some. The following is for EVE specific, just remember the difference I explained above. Hopefully it will all click up. EVE Skill Books (simplified): http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/A_Newcomer's_Guide#-_Skill_Books EVE Skill Guide: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Skills_guide - me. p.s. BMW Specialization does not exist in the EVE universe, as far as I'm aware of. =)


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