DUST Search - Tanks vs. AV

Carilito wrote:

Pezz IsDank wrote:

Pent'noir wrote:

Proto swarms
250dmg per missle for 6 missles, giving 1500 dmg per swarm launch.
You have 4 rounds per clip and holdling a max of 6 in storage, for a total of 10 swarm launches.

It will take about 3-5 seconds to aquire a lock per swarm launch, with an extra 4.5 seconds for reload every 4 launches.

I have no idea what the ehp of a good tank is, but lets just say it is 18k ehp.

Given a squad of 4 ppl, all with proto swarms.

1500dmg x4 = 6k per launch.
6k x 3 launches =18k
It would take between 9-15 seconds to do three launches.
Probably take 4 launches to account for the tank reps... (although, unless in a bad spot, the tank probably found cover by then)

What if they were all suicide fitted with wiyrkomi av grenades
(assuming 196dmg is a typo and it is really 1960 dmg per grenade)
1960 x 3 grenades = 5880 dmg
5880 dmg x 3 ppl per lav = 17640 dmg
Then plus what ever swarms they could get off.

It would appear both methods have merit, unless I'm off on my estimate of the tanks ehp. This could happen in corp matches when ppl are organized, but rarely in the public matches. Almost the only hope for a public match is to have a majority of your team switch to av or someone calls in their own tank.

Don't forget to take into account the damage resistance amplifiers that I believe every well fit marauder tank has. I had 2x 25% ones on mine and DCU, giving me around 55-60% damage reduction IIRC.

The math is right Dmg/investment wise but to actually do it in practice is a 100k+ loss every time for the AV squad due to one or two of the anti av is gonna die. No losses on the HAV squad except for EHP.

Honestly reduce the price by X3 for infantry gear to account for infantry loses and HAVs/AV will be more equal due to the reduced investment of AV supplies Vs the endurance of the HAV


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Pezz IsDank Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 171	Posted - 2012.09.01 15:28:00 - [1] - Quote The last build I went proto SL and focused a lot on taking out vehicles whenever they seemed to be making an impact. Near the end of the build I trained into a sagaris and enjoyed rolling around basically invincible, being able to take one swarm launchers aggro without having to activate my shield regenerator, I'd consider it after 10+ volleys usually since I was running a heavy shield regen and a normal one. I don't think the situation should be only involving the two groups, need to take everything into account.. like the fact that it's 4 people focusing on what could be one opponent, that leaves a nice opening for the tanks team to take action. Right now I think a good marauder driver has the advantage even if it's 4 guys focused on it with proto weapons. Prototype swarm launchers are cake to avoid, they're only a real problem if you get stuck and can't get out of the mess. A well fit marauder should be able to take quite the beating because it'll probably have around 55% damage reduction (2 resistance amplifiers & a DCU is what I did) and high HP. If the enemy team gets smart and starts using swarm launchers in masses the counter is pretty simple and very easy to achieve, especially with the new flight pattern and missiles not going as far in the direction they're pointed before homing like in the last build. You can't keep your lock on either after a vehicle has gone behind cover which makes it a lot easier as well I would think. Anyways, just roll out of the danger zone (lawls), use buildings/objects to break the lock ons by swarm launchers and find a spot a fair distance away where you can see the and still get kills once in awhile but can see all swarms headed to you. Every time they're about to hit, reverse a little bit, wait to hear all the explosions from the missiles, go back and get a few kills, rinse and repeat. I see that one used all the time and it works like a charm. So you got 4+ enemies focused on you and they're in fits that are likely to be terrible against other infantry. That's where the rest of your team comes into play, they push and flank while the others are busy trying to take you down when there's no way in hell. With the forge guns stupid range now it's not like you have to worry about getting blasted by a couple of those when doing that from a distance, they'd have to jump into an LAV, avoid your LOS, go behind you and surprise you. Haven't seen this done before myself but sounds like an idea, I wouldn't train into a heavy suit though. It would be nice if people could carry 5 RE's instead of 2 and they were effective enough to take one down if all 5 were laid on a tank. It takes so many people working together to destroy a tank to the point where they leave themselves open for the rest of their team to take their objectives, and/or flank them while the tank can almost always retreat and survive as long as it's well fit and the driver knows when to get out of the firestorm. The only good counter to tanks that I see are other tanks which is not just bad or wrong but badong. I get it though, they're most likely just trying to make this build really tank heavy to test out a bunch of tank vs tank combat. That just sucks for anyone that doesn't specialize in tanks and plays with randoms, like I do <(X.x)>. I thought the tanks were OP enough last build as I was driving my Sagaris, but now it's even worse and I haven't bothered to play enough to play with them lol. TLDR: The tank has the advantage. Easy to get away in one that's properly fit, easy to avoid the damage and still take shots at them. Plus that's so many of the enemy team distracted and focused on you so that the rest of your team can easily roll objectives/flank the AV.
Pezz IsDank Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 171	Posted - 2012.09.01 16:30:00 - [2] - Quote Pent'noir wrote: Proto swarms 250dmg per missle for 6 missles, giving 1500 dmg per swarm launch. You have 4 rounds per clip and holdling a max of 6 in storage, for a total of 10 swarm launches. It will take about 3-5 seconds to aquire a lock per swarm launch, with an extra 4.5 seconds for reload every 4 launches. I have no idea what the ehp of a good tank is, but lets just say it is 18k ehp. Given a squad of 4 ppl, all with proto swarms. 1500dmg x4 = 6k per launch. 6k x 3 launches =18k It would take between 9-15 seconds to do three launches. Probably take 4 launches to account for the tank reps... (although, unless in a bad spot, the tank probably found cover by then) What if they were all suicide fitted with wiyrkomi av grenades (assuming 196dmg is a typo and it is really 1960 dmg per grenade) 1960 x 3 grenades = 5880 dmg 5880 dmg x 3 ppl per lav = 17640 dmg Then plus what ever swarms they could get off. It would appear both methods have merit, unless I'm off on my estimate of the tanks ehp. This could happen in corp matches when ppl are organized, but rarely in the public matches. Almost the only hope for a public match is to have a majority of your team switch to av or someone calls in their own tank. Don't forget to take into account the damage resistance amplifiers that I believe every well fit marauder tank has. I had 2x 25% ones on mine and DCU, giving me around 55-60% damage reduction IIRC.
Pezz IsDank Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 171	Posted - 2012.09.01 16:53:00 - [3] - Quote Carilito wrote: Pezz IsDank wrote: Pent'noir wrote: Proto swarms 250dmg per missle for 6 missles, giving 1500 dmg per swarm launch. You have 4 rounds per clip and holdling a max of 6 in storage, for a total of 10 swarm launches. It will take about 3-5 seconds to aquire a lock per swarm launch, with an extra 4.5 seconds for reload every 4 launches. I have no idea what the ehp of a good tank is, but lets just say it is 18k ehp. Given a squad of 4 ppl, all with proto swarms. 1500dmg x4 = 6k per launch. 6k x 3 launches =18k It would take between 9-15 seconds to do three launches. Probably take 4 launches to account for the tank reps... (although, unless in a bad spot, the tank probably found cover by then) What if they were all suicide fitted with wiyrkomi av grenades (assuming 196dmg is a typo and it is really 1960 dmg per grenade) 1960 x 3 grenades = 5880 dmg 5880 dmg x 3 ppl per lav = 17640 dmg Then plus what ever swarms they could get off. It would appear both methods have merit, unless I'm off on my estimate of the tanks ehp. This could happen in corp matches when ppl are organized, but rarely in the public matches. Almost the only hope for a public match is to have a majority of your team switch to av or someone calls in their own tank. Don't forget to take into account the damage resistance amplifiers that I believe every well fit marauder tank has. I had 2x 25% ones on mine and DCU, giving me around 55-60% damage reduction IIRC. The math is right Dmg/investment wise but to actually do it in practice is a 100k+ loss every time for the AV squad due to one or two of the anti av is gonna die. No losses on the HAV squad except for EHP. Honestly reduce the price by X3 for infantry gear to account for infantry loses and HAVs/AV will be more equal due to the reduced investment of AV supplies Vs the endurance of the HAV Lol I was about to mention that too. Doesn't the proto SL alone cost 110k? I think I recall someone posting that before, haven't checked it myself though. I haven't played this beta a whole hell of a lot and right now I could only afford to buy 2 of those, and my best suit unlocked is a type II so very, very squishy to missile launcher tanks.. prob die in one volley pretty easily, very costly counter. I agree with the reduced cost. It's the thing that's making me think twice about training into AV first. Gotta say, loving the free LAV spam, getting a lot of free double kills off of them with the militia SL.
Pezz IsDank Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 171	Posted - 2012.09.01 16:57:00 - [4] - Quote Pent'noir wrote: All of that should be accounted for in the Effective HP and I thought those things get a stacking penalty. Something like if you have one, then the second only gets half of its stats. However, if someone can estimate their ehp on their tank and show me how they came up with it, then I'm be really happy to see it. All I know is what some ppl have thrown out there for some numbers with nothing to back it up. Ah IC, I didn't expect damage reduction to be considered in for EHP... to me it seems like something that would be mentioned along with EHP because it really depends on what hits the tank I would think. I do remember that damage reduction was put together with EHP though, so I guess you'd be right. Pretty sure the stacking penalty is the same as it is in EVE: http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_penalty 1 100% 2 87% 3 57% 4 28% 5 10.5% 6 3% So with only 2 25% damage reduction amplifiers you can still get quite a bit of a nice boost in defense. I didn't like the drop from 2nd to 3rd though so I did DCU instead, which gave 12.5% to both shield/armor IIRC.. and barely cost anything PG/CPU wise.