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Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
80
   |
Posted - 2012.08.30 05:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
This is a complex issue.
I would wager, two proto heavies with proto SL's against a driver and gunner in a Gunnlogi, all other things being equal, that the tank would most often win. This is with an equivalent number of players on each side, the tank having two players in militia outfits (because what's the point if you're in a tank anyway).
However, though the tank is more costly, the heavies are taking a greater risk. A soldier in a tank isn't going to take noticeable damage from anything but AV grenades, swarm launchers and forge guns, and can gun down or roll over any infantry with ease. The tank can also take out most infantry targets with a couple hits, doesn't have to lock and never has to reload (although some turrets do have heat buildup).
On the other hand, our heavies are extraordinarily weak against infantry. Sure, they've got thick armor, but they're left with a sidearm versus assault rifles, sniper rifles, HMGs, mass drivers, etc. In a vacuum, they'd be lucky to get off 4 shots apiece at that tank, but now they have to contend with an entire enemy infantry gunning for them while they try to set up shots 2, 3, and 4. And trust me, once that first swarm goes off, everyone knows where you are. You might have to take even more shots if the tank is using its active shield repairer, if you have to reload, or if, during the 30 seconds that you're attacking the tank, it manages to find cover--and tanks move a lot faster than you do.
Has anybody reading this ever managed to take out a proto tank as an AV? Can you tell us exactly how much it takes? |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 05:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Dont forget that Weaponry also boosts the damage of a Militia Swarm by up to 15% |
Ruthra V25
Conspiratus Immortalis
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 05:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
I have blown up a few tanks. I have not used Proto AV this build, but last build I ended with 45-46 mil SP. was able to Proto heavy and logi suit, along with most weapon(not all). It would take me 5-6 Assault forge shots to drop a good tank. With Breach forge dmg, pain to use, not sure this build. Also tanks seem to have soft spots around rear areas, not sure if its on all or they are still there. |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 06:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ruthra V25 wrote:I have blown up a few tanks. I have not used Proto AV this build, but last build I ended with 45-46 mil SP. was able to Proto heavy and logi suit, along with most weapon(not all). It would take me 5-6 Assault forge shots to drop a good tank. With Breach forge dmg, pain to use, not sure this build. Also tanks seem to have soft spots around rear areas, not sure if its on all or they are still there.
Interesting, I wasn't aware that vehicles had tougher and weaker points. |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 06:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
That might seems like a beast on paper but I had a one like that in last build before the wipe and I could swear I was one slotted by forge guns and didn't last that many shots against a marauder either.
It's a possibility that damage resistance didn't actually work in the last build though because I definitely lasted longer with shield extenders. |
Encharrion
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
104
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 07:48:00 -
[36] - Quote
Goliath Raven wrote:Dr Skurlock wrote:Goliath Raven wrote:Dr Skurlock wrote:I see. At any rate, thank god I don't run that weak ass fit anymore. Would you care to elaborate? I tried the numbers on quite a few fittings, this is the highest effective hp I could come up with. Was you complaint with the fitting that it did not survive well or that it did not recharge/damage output well? I would be very interested for this little thought experiment if there is a build with higher effective hp for these tanks.  Not gonna give up the secrets but, the numbers aren't right as the previous guy posted. Ahh I see, thanks for the info. Sad, that makes my little thought experiment all but useless.
I'm pretty sure only the AV grenade's values are off, and I think that's only because the value shown is its damage versus infantry. Aside from that, I believe you get more EHP from your fit if you go with 3 resists a DCU and only 1 extender, and even if it isn't it's easier to fit. |
Goliath Raven
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 16:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
Encharrion wrote:Goliath Raven wrote:Dr Skurlock wrote:Goliath Raven wrote:Dr Skurlock wrote:I see. At any rate, thank god I don't run that weak ass fit anymore. Would you care to elaborate? I tried the numbers on quite a few fittings, this is the highest effective hp I could come up with. Was you complaint with the fitting that it did not survive well or that it did not recharge/damage output well? I would be very interested for this little thought experiment if there is a build with higher effective hp for these tanks. Not gonna give up the secrets but, the numbers aren't right as the previous guy posted. Ahh I see, thanks for the info. Sad, that makes my little thought experiment all but useless. I'm pretty sure only the AV grenade's values are off, and I think that's only because the value shown is its damage versus infantry. Aside from that, I believe you get more EHP from your fit if you go with 3 resists a DCU and only 1 extender, and even if it isn't it's easier to fit.
It would really help to get a response from GM or dev on this. Are we playing the game with correct information or are the people who experiment able to find combos of equipment that are more effective then the numbers we see would lead us to believe? If we are supposed to be working with the numbers provided, then we need up to date numbers or some people will be on the battlefield with uber-powered equip while the rest of us are reading up and wondering how its possible. CCP, please level the playing field for all players with accurate information. |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
393
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 16:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Nighthawk0430 wrote:Sees-Too-Much wrote:Someone posted a fit a couple days ago that had some 14k eHP. It's still only 10-12 swarm rounds not counting AV grenades. Three people with a T1 Swarm could take it down with a single magazine. Again, less with AV grenades. AV grenades dont do much damage, the best AV grenade is the LAI DAI Packed, dealing 235.3 HP per grenade, and it cost 17k ISK (my research on this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag6oQRxOsk-PdDRRWmJKNVFGQUtjdGZYdG10NWpfd0E#gid=0, bottom of the sheet.), so I dont see many people launching a lot of those, even if they were with swarm launchers
i believe you need to move the decimal place one spot to the right...making 140 damage 1400 damage or 150 damage 1500 damage etc.
so the best AV grenade is listed at 235.3HP ...really should be 2353HP |
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