DUST Search - CCP please adjust Squad Leader attributes

a dirty Shisno wrote:

Kro'nak Ragnok wrote:

***snip***

1.) Mute the Squad Leader, essentially turning the squad leader with a mic into one without a mic which some people want.

2.) Join/Start another squad.

Just as their is no guarantee that a squad leader with a mic will be a good squad leader there also is no gurantee that a squad leader without a mic will be a good squad leader either. At least in regards to the squad leader with a mic verbal communication is optional & more encoraged whether good or bad. However if a player doesn't want to play with people with mics then the power to do so soley relies on the individual (you) through the mute feature which is a quick & simple solution... then again perhaps not everyone knows how to use mute feature.

I don't think anyone wants to have mic-less squad leaders, nor is anyone here advocating for that. What we are simply saying is that sometimes, such as language barriers, mics actually hinder communication among players. Sometimes the built in visual communications are just better for the squad and team as a whole, and because of that mic use among Squad Leaders should not be mandatory.

a dirty Shisno wrote:

Kro'nak Ragnok wrote:

***snip***

In addition to that most of the time I've played with a squad leader without a mic they gave out significantly less squad orders or ZERO squad orders compared to the squad leaders with mics. For me at least squad leaders with mics have been more fun to play with & led to better winnings than the squad leaders without mics. Also squad leaders on mics are more likely to respond to communication & encourage communication as well as teamwork.

***snip***

And now here is actually an interesting conundrum. Simply because communication is easier when a group of mic users are talking to each other, Squad Leaders with mics are far less likely to use the ingame Squad Commands than Squad Leaders without mics. This actually hinders the players in the squad in the form of less points, since using the Squad Commands and obeying them offer up many extra points. This results in gameplay that is actually less rewarding to those communicating and coordinating the most.

Pages: 1 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Kro'nak Ragnok Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 79	Posted - 2012.08.30 03:39:00 - [1] - Quote CCP please adjust the attributes of Squad Leader identifications & functions. I know that the majority of the time the problem with squads are due to the people in them & their lack of concern or understanding of proper game play. However, some of the problems could be allieviated by noticable indicators, better auto-selecting, & refined controls. My recommended list of improvements are: - Give the Squad Leader a special indicator that clearly shows that they are the active Squad Leader. - Give the Squad Leader a distinguishable map/hud icon to alert squad members & help encourage squad unity. - Require the Squad Leader to have a mic for A.I. auto-selecting (keeping the option for players give it away if uninterested). - Adjust Squad Leader FPS objective targeting (R2 & R3) so objectives can be marked without being extremely close to them. - Adjust Squad Leader map designated objectives so objectives can be marked regardless of distance from the squad leader. - Make available all the FPS objective targeting commands for map designation. 1.) The reason why giving a squad leader a visual indication notice that they are the current leader of their squad would be useful is because there are a list of situations in which a person can be a squad leader & not even realize it until a significant amount of time has passed or a match has ended. - squad leader not checking their squad list in the War Room or at the beginning of the match, - previous squad leader passing their leadership to another player without informing them, - previous squad leader quiting or disconnecting forcing the auto-selectiong of a new squad leader. In addition to that checking slow loading screens easily becomes a nuisance. I believe that if squad leaders had visible indicators clearly stating that they were squad leaders not only would it be more convenient for them but there would be better squad leaders in matches. 2.) The reason why providing the squad leader with an icon that is visually distinguishable to all members of their squad would be beneficial is because it would help seperated teammates know which of their squad members is their squad leader & where they are loacated at for quicker unification. This would be especially useful to have being that squad leaders currently have to be close to an objective to mark it. This means that teammates closer to ther squad leaders are more likely to get bonus points for marked objectives if they are closer to their squad leader. 3.) The reason why requiring the squad leader to have a mic would be beneficial is because players with mics are usually better with communication than those without mics. They are more likely to encourage teamwork & 2-way communication among teammembers. They can also better clarify the type of marked target/objective when the input commands are being sluggish/slow registering. The option for a squad leader to give away their leadership should remain in case a leader doesn't want the responsibility or feels someone else would be better suited as the squad leader. 4.) The need for the squad leader FPS objectiving targeting refinement is due to some objectives (capturing) not being selectable unless the control panel directly aimed at & is in hacking distance. The same goes for targets as it seems they can't be marked for teammembers to kill unless you are actually in their kill range. 5.) The removal of a squad leaders proximity to marked objectives/targets in the overhead map screen would be beneficial as it would encourage & cause more successful marked targets in addition to allowing major objectives to be marked before the squad leader enters battle. 6.) Making all the FPS objective targetting commands available in the overhead map screen (like "Capture") would naturally be beneficial for those that like to plan their objectives before entering battle. In conclusion I believe that the application of these 6 recommendations would help promote new or bad squad leaders to be good squad leaders to become better squad leaders. I also believe that this would promote a better sense of unity & teamwork among members when playing with random players in the absence of friends. Fellow Dust Mercenaries feel free to add you reccommendations as well.
a dirty Shisno Algintal Core Gallente Federation 130	Posted - 2012.08.30 06:57:00 - [2] - Quote That is a very well thought out, articulated response. I must disagree on only one point, number 3. The reason why whether or not a person has a mic should not be a deciding factor in determining if they should be placed as Squad Leader is simply that the PlayStation 3 is not sold with a mic, and as such it is quite possible that a majority of players on the PlayStation 3 do not own one. A free to play game such as this is attempting to attract everyone to play it simply by virtue of it being free, and having more people without mics than with, it would be entirely possible to have matches without any Squad Leaders if they were required to have a mic. As well, this very situation causes some people to simply leave their mics off until someone else with a mic calls for anyone with a mic to speak, because they either do not want to waste the batteries, do not want to disturb those without mics with the sounds of every action they make, or just do not want to talk with no one responding back to them. Under the requirement you put forth, these people would qualify in theory because they have mics, but would be disqualified in practice because they are not on at the time of the decision process.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.08.30 08:16:00 - [3] - Quote I agree with all but number 3. Just because someone knows how to use a microphone doesn't mean what they have to say is worth listening to. I cite as examples numerous radio talk show hosts.
Kyy Seiska Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 188	Posted - 2012.08.30 10:44:00 - [4] - Quote I am a firm believer that with well implemented squad-leader and team based information sharing you can even have squad full of randoms who have never played together work as a team. Current one is a good start, but still pretty bug ridden and has it problems. But as for the Requiring the mic part, why? You wan't me to give you orders in Finnish for **** and giggles? When playing with randoms you never know if you even share the same language, there might even be those who can't speak English at all or you might join a squad full of Spanish or people who have no interest in living the game and screaming commands in to your ear. You can form up your own squad with like minded people if you really want to but the voice chat to it's full use. But making it a requirement just to enjoy one of the games features is a bit silly.
Kro'nak Ragnok Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 79	Posted - 2012.08.30 15:22:00 - [5] - Quote I kind of figured that #3 would be the least liked request. I respect, (+1), all of your arguments against #3. They all logically makes sense as their is no guarantee that a player with a mic would 1-speak the same language, 2-be understandable in the same language, or 3-even use their mics to talk about events relevant to the current match. However I have 2 counter-arguments/solutions to that. 1.) Mute the Squad Leader, essentially turning the squad leader with a mic into one without a mic which some people want. 2.) Join/Start another squad. Just as their is no guarantee that a squad leader with a mic will be a good squad leader there also is no gurantee that a squad leader without a mic will be a good squad leader either. At least in regards to the squad leader with a mic verbal communication is optional & more encoraged whether good or bad. However if a player doesn't want to play with people with mics then the power to do so soley relies on the individual (you) through the mute feature which is a quick & simple solution... then again perhaps not everyone knows how to use mute feature.
Kro'nak Ragnok Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 79	Posted - 2012.08.30 20:06:00 - [6] - Quote Kyy Seiska wrote: You can form up your own squad with like minded people if you really want to but the voice chat to it's full use. But making it a requirement just to enjoy one of the games features is a bit silly. True. It is possible to form squads with like minded people. However the problem with that is it takes awhile to find like minded people to form squads with, especially since most people don't even use mics. Ontop of that its not guaranted the like minded people you do happen to find & want to play with the next time will even share the same off days, off hours, or even the same play schedule as you especially with the inclusion of random unscheduled tasks/events that need to get taken care of. The last the thing that I want to do is join or create a hardcore clan that enforces mandatory play times. In short playing with like-minded people on random schedules is not as easy as you make it seem. In addition to that most of the time I've played with a squad leader without a mic they gave out significantly less squad orders or ZERO squad orders compared to the squad leaders with mics. For me at least squad leaders with mics have been more fun to play with & led to better winnings than the squad leaders without mics. Also squad leaders on mics are more likely to respond to communication & encourage communication as well as teamwork. As for not wanting to hear squad leaders with mics, treat them as any other teammate, "Mute" them. The mute feature was added in the past beta update/build due to complaints of people intentionally & unintentionally being a nuisance with their mics. So there should now be no complaints about having to "hear" annoying people. I would give step-by-step exact directions on how to utilize the "Mute" feature but I'm currently not on my PS3. However if someone could do that it would be of great use for those that are unaware of how to utilize the "Mute" feature.
a dirty Shisno Algintal Core Gallente Federation 130	Posted - 2012.08.30 20:46:00 - [7] - Quote Kro'nak Ragnok wrote: *snip* 1.) Mute the Squad Leader, essentially turning the squad leader with a mic into one without a mic which some people want. 2.) Join/Start another squad. Just as their is no guarantee that a squad leader with a mic will be a good squad leader there also is no gurantee that a squad leader without a mic will be a good squad leader either. At least in regards to the squad leader with a mic verbal communication is optional & more encoraged whether good or bad. However if a player doesn't want to play with people with mics then the power to do so soley relies on the individual (you) through the mute feature which is a quick & simple solution... then again perhaps not everyone knows how to use mute feature. I don't think anyone wants to have mic-less squad leaders, nor is anyone here advocating for that. What we are simply saying is that sometimes, such as language barriers, mics actually hinder communication among players. Sometimes the built in visual communications are just better for the squad and team as a whole, and because of that mic use among Squad Leaders should not be mandatory. Kro'nak Ragnok wrote: *snip* In addition to that most of the time I've played with a squad leader without a mic they gave out significantly less squad orders or ZERO squad orders compared to the squad leaders with mics. For me at least squad leaders with mics have been more fun to play with & led to better winnings than the squad leaders without mics. Also squad leaders on mics are more likely to respond to communication & encourage communication as well as teamwork. *snip* And now here is actually an interesting conundrum. Simply because communication is easier when a group of mic users are talking to each other, Squad Leaders with mics are far less likely to use the ingame Squad Commands than Squad Leaders without mics. This actually hinders the players in the squad in the form of less points, since using the Squad Commands and obeying them offer up many extra points. This results in gameplay that is actually less rewarding to those communicating and coordinating the most.
Kro'nak Ragnok Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 79	Posted - 2012.08.31 04:50:00 - [8] - Quote a dirty Shisno wrote: Kro'nak Ragnok wrote: *snip* 1.) Mute the Squad Leader, essentially turning the squad leader with a mic into one without a mic which some people want. 2.) Join/Start another squad. Just as their is no guarantee that a squad leader with a mic will be a good squad leader there also is no gurantee that a squad leader without a mic will be a good squad leader either. At least in regards to the squad leader with a mic verbal communication is optional & more encoraged whether good or bad. However if a player doesn't want to play with people with mics then the power to do so soley relies on the individual (you) through the mute feature which is a quick & simple solution... then again perhaps not everyone knows how to use mute feature. I don't think anyone wants to have mic-less squad leaders, nor is anyone here advocating for that. What we are simply saying is that sometimes, such as language barriers, mics actually hinder communication among players. Sometimes the built in visual communications are just better for the squad and team as a whole, and because of that mic use among Squad Leaders should not be mandatory. Well my arguement for having squad leaders requiring mics is that the Squad Leaders would have & utilize 2 (Two) effective means of communication by simultaneously marking objectives & using their microphones not just soley using one method. In the case of a verbal communication barrier then the squad leader would naturally stick to doing their primary goal of marking objectives & would either stop using their mics or their teammates would naturally mute them if verbal communication was such a nuisance. a dirty Shisno wrote: Kro'nak Ragnok wrote: *snip* In addition to that most of the time I've played with a squad leader without a mic they gave out significantly less squad orders or ZERO squad orders compared to the squad leaders with mics. For me at least squad leaders with mics have been more fun to play with & led to better winnings than the squad leaders without mics. Also squad leaders on mics are more likely to respond to communication & encourage communication as well as teamwork. *snip* And now here is actually an interesting conundrum. Simply because communication is easier when a group of mic users are talking to each other, Squad Leaders with mics are far less likely to use the ingame Squad Commands than Squad Leaders without mics. This actually hinders the players in the squad in the form of less points, since using the Squad Commands and obeying them offer up many extra points. This results in gameplay that is actually less rewarding to those communicating and coordinating the most. *I love your use of the phrase "an interesting conundrum" as it truly is. Its agreed that it is easier when a group of mic user are talking to each other. However I diasgree that Squad Learers with mics are far less likely to use the in-game Squad Commands than Squad Leaders without mics. I disagree simply because of the fact that more seasoned gamers use mics & learn more from others with mics. Squad Leaders with mics are more aware of the fact that more points are earned through squad commands & will put forth a better effort in marking objectives/targets. However due to the the sluggish & sometimes inaccurate Squad Commands I can see some objectives & targets being verbally identified & taken care of before the Squad Commands can properly register. So I can see some truth to your statement in regards to squads getting more bonus points from Squad Leaders without mics. In the end though, whether squad commands are or aren't issued is determined by the squad leader's familiarity with giving squad commands & actual awareness of being a squad leader regardless if they have a mic or not.
kalahari ilkeston Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2012.09.02 02:40:00 - [9] - Quote Good points, except mic Issuing orders attack/defend/capture/rally is generally sufficient Works well in matches with a low number of people e.g. 2vs2 etc I order the other person to capture a point while i capture another point, enemy always had a hard time trying to catch us both
skank hoe Bragian Order Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2012.09.02 05:25:00 - [10] - Quote Worded much better in here then in my post... Since you can "Rally" naywhere on the map I usally just Rally in the direction of the objective I'm heading.

Kro'nak Ragnok Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 79	Posted - 2012.09.03 01:29:00 - [11] - Quote kalahari ilkeston wrote: Good points, except mic Issuing orders attack/defend/capture/rally is generally sufficient Works well in matches with a low number of people e.g. 2vs2 etc I order the other person to capture a point while i capture another point, enemy always had a hard time trying to catch us both Thanks, +1 to you good sir! Verbal communication doesn't seem to be appreciated much when playing with random people. Ontop of that due to the current communication setup people in squad chat can't hear those in teamchat & people in teamchat can't hear those in squadchat. This makes it difficult to verbally communicate with your squad when you can't tell if your mic-less squadmates are in squad chat or team chat, further discouraging the use of microphones. I think it would be beneficial if squad leaders had the ability to simultaneously talk to both those in the squadchat of their squad & as well as those on teamchat when their voice chat was set to teamchat. Right now it just seems that microphones in general are better off used only when playing with friends or clan members. In the end I suppose not requiring mics for squad leaders works out better for those that don't own mics or want to use them. I haven't had much chance to test the responsiveness of issued commands recently as I've been having a hard time getting in games lately & staying in them when I was able to get in them. However I'm sure it will get better as the beta progresses.
Altaree Draeden Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 38	Posted - 2012.09.05 20:09:00 - [12] - Quote So much better written than what I posted... bump to you.


Pages: 1 :: [one page]