DUST Search - [Request] Rebalancing Small Turrets

carl von oppenheimer wrote:

What we need for vehicles is a similar locking system that swarms currently have, same for turret installations.
We could also easily add skills like targeting and long range targeting along with other skills to reduce locking time which could follow the same locking time formula in EVE where large guns take a very long time on locking in to something with a small signature.

Signature analysis:
Skill at operating Targeting systems. 5% improved targeting speed per skill level.

long range targeting:
Skill at long range targeting. 5% Bonus to targeting range per skill level.

targeting:
Skill at targeting multiple targets. +1 extra target per skill level, up to the ship's maximum allowed number of targets locked

Multi tasking:
Skill at targeting multiple targets. +1 extra target per skill level, up to the ship's maximum allowed number of targets locked.

They way I had in mind for this feature to work is that could lock the turret installation to follow on specific targets which the turret would then automatically fire and track once they come to range.
Idea is that this would work even if you leave the turret and would stop to "basic AI mode" once it has destroyed the targets that you have "locked in to".

On the other hand meh it wouldn't be fun to have turrets automatically shoot and track when the point is that it's you're the one doing the shooting.


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Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.27 10:14:00 - [1] - Quote While it seems the large turrets seem to work quite well in the field of damage and splash area I'm still wondering if the small turrets are balanced at all. With me currently checking out LAVs AND Swarm Launchers it seems somewhat unbalanced that the small turrets do such a small amount of damage. Esspecially if you compare Anti-Vehicle versus Anti-Infantry (in LAVs) it is not on the same level. AV has damage outputs in the range of 1000 and upwards. AI in the same level range has the laughingly low damage of 100 to 300. This is even worse when it comes to splash damage vs. homing AV. Both AV Grenades and Swarm launchers are absolute fire-and-forget weapons with the SL turning corners of 45-¦ to 90-¦ without any orbiting (which is a plain joke even in game mechanics). AI turrets (Rockets) on the other hand are intended to damage by splash. But unfortunately the splash damage is a joke in terms of being a counter to infantry. In addition the splash damage calculation seems to be way off. When it says 6m (radius) it would mean that if I hit something 3 times the size of a suit away from that suti it should still damage it. Right now it is necessary to hit about 1x to 0.5x the size of the suit away to get the hit registered. (Many tries with AT-1 Missile launchers prove this.) In addition the AT-1 still needs 2 or 3 shots to kill a Scout suit. Not to mention the 5 to 6 hits on a Militia Heavy suit. In comparision to the new AV weapons this is just unbalanced in terms of using small turrets. If people would be using Dropships more there would be definitely more shouting on this topic. It seems small turrets are basicaly HAV turrets right now as it's all down to standing still for 20 seconds to get a kill. AV turrets are even worse. If you need to drive like a maniac for not being one shotted by a militia tank in a Standard Saga with Shield Extenders and Damage reducers, it is NOT possible to get a single shot on a tank or installation with the railgun. This makes the whole Railgun obsolete right now. It would at least need a lock on feature that allows to lock the gun onto a distant target. (some kind of targeting assistance) Blasters though are looking like they are working as some kind of LAV vs LAV surperiority weapon. But this being the only application of them (lacking appropiate AI or AV properties) makes the whole thing almost useless as well. EDIT: On fast moving vehicles the rockets seem to be spawned a little late or in the wrong direction. The faster the vehicle the bigger the problem seems to be. And as an addition Dropships can be hit by their own rockets. SOLUTIONS/SUGGESTION: - Keep AV weapons as strong as they are. Esspecially AV Grenades are the only thing to keep people from running over pedestrians. - Decrease the turning speed of Swarm launchers missiles and add 0.5 or 1 second of straight flight before the homing starts. This will make it possible to evade the missiles a bit better AND help AV people by not hitting all the walls with the uncontrolled launch swarming. It would also allow for a javelin launch start over small covers. - Increase splash damage on rocket launchers significantly with a fix to the splash range issue(maybe with a statement if it's meant as diameter OR radius) OR - increase splash range OR damage significantly to compensate the damage surplus of AV weapons in the equal level (LVL 1 AV grenade vs. LVL 1 turret) - Increase the damage of the Railgun turret and reduce the firing rate to be equal to Forge Guns OR - Introduce a LOCK-AND-FOLLOW Feature on the Railgun - Add / Increase (a small) blaster splash radius - Overhaul the launch process of rockets to be able to cope with fast moving vehicles OR - Make the rocket launcher work like a designator. L1 aims the designator and R1 fires a missile that targets the designated point like the swarm missiles.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.27 11:48:00 - [2] - Quote Anyone on a HAV to say something about this topic? Are you experiencing the same / more / less things when inside the HAV and moving / shooting?
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.27 14:25:00 - [3] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: An LAV circling a HAV will kill the HAV almost every time, FYI. As a driver, just watch the turret and stay the hell away from it. There's no way it can move fast enough to track you up close! The reason the small turrets are so low damage is because they are supposed to be anti-infantry, not anti-vehicle. They don't compare to AV weapons because the small turret is not the thing being shot at, the tank itself is. The main turret compares to the AV weapons, and even does a bit more than most of them. They don't need a buff, by any means. I will agree that the maximum angle a swarm can turn could be toned down just a tad though. You can still dodge them in a HAV as things are but it is pretty damn tricky. When talking about the small turrets on HAV do you mean rocket, RG or Blaster ? Aren't front and back turret on tanks intended to defend the tank while the main cannon attacks? Sounds to me as if the small HAV turrets are unable to do the job, while the LAV circling the HAV is also some kind of abomination. Shouldn't they be doing hit and runs on the HAV instead of orbiting them like a small frigate? Sounds too much like EVE Online to me.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.28 09:59:00 - [4] - Quote Patches The Hyena wrote: Echo-418 wrote: as a gunner on a drop ship, I usually find my shots going everywhere but my target while the vehicle is in motion. Many times it doesn't seem like they actually leave the barrel. It's more like the rounds just appear out of space somewhere It's like: Gunner presses the button -> Signal goes down the line right to the chinese government -> passes the amazon.com servers -> reflects on the Big Red Wall -> Hits the Server -> Server says "Off ya go rokky" -> signal is sent to the chinese government again -> reflects the Wall -> bounces through some 4chan.org forums-> Missile spawns some time later at a place the Dropship or LAV isn't anymore if it isn't standing still.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.28 11:13:00 - [5] - Quote BestNameEva wrote: AT - 1 accelerated missiles! as a dropship pilot these are the light missile launchers I use and boy oh boy are they awesome. faster rockets, 2 hit splash kills, 1 hit direct hit kills and oh so accurate, no more firing all over the place. Takes a while to speck them but well worth it i use them on my LAV and the splash radius seems ( as stated above) quite erratic. Have you used them much in the new build ?
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.28 11:23:00 - [6] - Quote I tried the frag variant. It seems the main trouble comes when either the turret or the vehicle moves (fast). When its down to raining the missiles from above it's a little different as the angular movement of the turret and the parallel movement of target, missile and spawn point do seem to have trouble when either one is too fast.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.28 11:27:00 - [7] - Quote carl von oppenheimer wrote: What we need for vehicles is a similar locking system that swarms currently have, same for turret installations. We could also easily add skills like targeting and long range targeting along with other skills to reduce locking time which could follow the same locking time formula in EVE where large guns take a very long time on locking in to something with a small signature. Signature analysis: Skill at operating Targeting systems. 5% improved targeting speed per skill level. long range targeting: Skill at long range targeting. 5% Bonus to targeting range per skill level. targeting: Skill at targeting multiple targets. +1 extra target per skill level, up to the ship's maximum allowed number of targets locked Multi tasking: Skill at targeting multiple targets. +1 extra target per skill level, up to the ship's maximum allowed number of targets locked. They way I had in mind for this feature to work is that could lock the turret installation to follow on specific targets which the turret would then automatically fire and track once they come to range. Idea is that this would work even if you leave the turret and would stop to "basic AI mode" once it has destroyed the targets that you have "locked in to". On the other hand meh it wouldn't be fun to have turrets automatically shoot and track when the point is that it's you're the one doing the shooting. I absolutely agree on this in the range of Railguns and maybe blasters. Rockets locking on pedestrians sounds a bit overloaded to me though. Here splash damage working properly and balanced should do the trick.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.29 07:19:00 - [8] - Quote Thank you for all the input! I checked AT-1 Frag Missiles again (the large AOE ones) yesterday. It somehow seems as if those DO have the 6.8m splash range. It's just funny that it felt like such a significant change to the pure AT-1 which is said to have 5m ... it's actually just a suits length. Will compare AT-1 Frag and pure AT-1 today. Was there some change during the hotfix?
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.30 08:51:00 - [9] - Quote Okay I compared the AT-Frag and the AT-1 and the difference of 1.8m is SEVERE. But still the splash range seems to be way off. Esspecially when people start bunnyhopping. It somehow seems to me that the splash range is somehow only calculated in a half sphere around the impact point AND the (semi)sphere direction depends not on the direction the missile came from but the angle of the vertex it hits. Side view of an example. _Y_.Xo .........\| .........\|___LAV____ If you look at this the Target "X" can stand at the ledge fully exposed and the LAV shoots at the ledge below point "o" X does not recieve damage as the splash is strictly directed away from the ledge vertices making it impossible to hit people standing on ledges and not in the cover of them(like Y does). Might we get some comment on this from the Devs? Is the splash range intended to work like this? Is it possible to increase the semicircle by 20 degree on both sides to get some overblast without splashing through cover?
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.09.02 11:04:00 - [10] - Quote Well in general weapon damage should be based on CPU and PG need but it's really strange that vehicle mounted weapons are somehow less deadly with the exception of Large turrets. And still Forge Guns do somehow have more punch than a vehicle mounted Railgun...even AFTER they have been nerfed ^^