DUST Search - And the madness returns again.

Kazeno Rannaa wrote:

First off, it is not noobs that are requesting an equalization of the price indexing for these big and beasty toys. There are many of us long time beta testers that believe this current pricing that think the difference in cost between the militia and standard and then the advanced and pro to/black ops are a little out of whack.

I would hope that you would not consider Sha Kharn a good, as I am sure if you have been in this beta for a bit, you have had the displeasure of being on the business end of either his Boundless SMG or the large turret of his tank. In 20 or so matches that I have been and assistant gunner in one of his tanks we have only lost 2. And I would be more than happy to role with him anytime against the likes of Spartan 269 or STB-TeddNuggent.

As for the gentlemen's agreement not to target one another, that is bullocks. Bring your toy into the fray and be prepared to lose it. Remember that we are part of EVE. If you are afraid to lose it, then don't take out onto the playground. Also don't play with any toy that you are afraid to break or destroy.

The reality is that HAV/tanks are NOT SUPPOSED to be CHEAP. They are big expensive pieces of equipment. If you can't afford to replace it, then don't field it. And if you do, don't cry about how unfair it is that you loose it. Cost benefit analysis should be conducted and concluded upon before making the decision of fielding said equipment.

As for dealing with HAV's, teamwork and communication are the only solutions necessary to get the job done, even with the most basic pieces of equipment. People should begin to spec up on flux grenades for those shield tankers and I have yet to see really any forge gunners. So if people are really feeling the pinch, they should coordinate with someone that is a tanker. Either way this game is about contextualizing the circumstances of a given situation and adjusting accordingly with team mates.

IF folks choose to IGNORE the availability of in game comms, then they open themselves up the romping and stomping of a solid tanker and his gunners. I know I will happily take advantage of said situations with the tankers of our corp, especially when our opponents set themselves up for failure to their lack of communication and coordination.

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The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.08.27 04:23:00 - [1] - Quote Well looks like the tank madness returned again. Had a couple of matches where my team had either 3-5 tanks (my tank included). Dont have to mention that the enemy team got destroyed without a chance. What did the n00bs sayd? "higher prices on tanks will stop them, less ISK income will stop the tank spamage". All i see is that people again spec into the wrong direction. Either they go for assault rifle skills, sniper rifles or something else that has no effect on tanks. And those AV grenades dont do much damage on a good tank. And your last straw the heavy-shock is just gunfeed to a good tank. And tanks aint got nerfed its the other way around AV weapons have beeing nerfed. You cant lock on a vehicle with a swarm launcher behind cover anymore and forgeguns have now limited range. And i dont see people camping anymore on top of buildings where they are more or less save from tanks. Also large turrets have beeing buffed so that all tanks can do a good amount of damage. The only difference compared to the E3 build is that you cant get spawn killed anymore on skirmish (when it comes down to tanks).
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.08.27 04:33:00 - [2] - Quote Now imagine that instead of 3-5 on one team it was 1-2 on one team and 2-3 on the other. In that situation the odds are pretty good that someone is losing their expensive toy. If everyone starts speccing into HAVs then HAV on HAV combat will lead to a lot of them getting destroyed and they will remain prohibitively expensive for regular use. Unless we end up with some sort of "tank gentleman's agreement" where HAVs agree to never target each other, even when they're on opposing sides.
Odiain Suliis 39	Posted - 2012.08.27 05:31:00 - [3] - Quote That tank madness was... intesting... I lost ALOT of clones to those damn tanks. Tried to shoot them from those tower balconies, but I allways seemed to get those swarm missiles stuck in the railing and never even exploding! And yes those swarms were pretty much pea-shooters tho tose tanks, then again I'm skilling to logi so... But atleast I dented those babys.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2012.08.27 05:33:00 - [4] - Quote its not a real make-believe war until madness breaks out
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1903	Posted - 2012.08.27 05:34:00 - [5] - Quote It sucks that swarm launchers are so bad vs Tanks, since they offer NO support vs infantry, so in effect, fielding swarm launchers only serves to strengthen your opponent, unless they're just bad pilots. They're wonderful at killing LAVs anyways. I found out today that they don't even kill dropships, you can actually just fly away from the missiles >_<
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.08.27 05:38:00 - [6] - Quote Seriously, you guys need to watch some Planetside videos. People used to pull out over 100 tanks in that game, and all it took was a few bombers to wipe them. Once we get the full vehicle set, ***'s gonna get real*.
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 145	Posted - 2012.08.27 05:51:00 - [7] - Quote First off, it is not noobs that are requesting an equalization of the price indexing for these big and beasty toys. There are many of us long time beta testers that believe this current pricing that think the difference in cost between the militia and standard and then the advanced and pro to/black ops are a little out of whack. I would hope that you would not consider Sha Kharn a noob, as I am sure if you have been in this beta for a bit, you have had the displeasure of being on the business end of either his Boundless SMG or the large turret of his tank. In 20 or so matches that I have been and assistant gunner in one of his tanks we have only lost 2. And I would be more than happy to role with him anytime against the likes of Spartan 269 or STB-TeddNuggent. As for the gentlemen's agreement not to target one another, that is bullocks. Bring your toy into the fray and be prepared to lose it. Remember that we are part of EVE. If you are afraid to lose it, then don't take out onto the playground. Also don't play with any toy that you are afraid to break or destroy. The reality is that HAV/tanks are NOT SUPPOSED to be CHEAP. They are big expensive pieces of equipment. If you can't afford to replace it, then don't field it. And if you do, don't cry about how unfair it is that you loose it. Cost benefit analysis should be conducted and concluded upon before making the decision of fielding said equipment. As for dealing with HAV's, teamwork and communication are the only solutions necessary to get the job done, even with the most basic pieces of equipment. People should begin to spec up on flux grenades for those shield tankers and I have yet to see really any forge gunners. So if people are really feeling the pinch, they should coordinate with someone that is a tanker. Either way this game is about contextualizing the circumstances of a given situation and adjusting accordingly with team mates. IF folks choose to IGNORE the availability of in game comms, then they open themselves up the romping and stomping of a solid tanker and his gunners. I know I will happily take advantage of said situations with the tankers of our corp, especially when our opponents set themselves up for failure to their lack of communication and coordination.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.08.27 06:04:00 - [8] - Quote Kazeno Rannaa wrote: First off, it is not noobs that are requesting an equalization of the price indexing for these big and beasty toys. There are many of us long time beta testers that believe this current pricing that think the difference in cost between the militia and standard and then the advanced and pro to/black ops are a little out of whack. I would hope that you would not consider Sha Kharn a good, as I am sure if you have been in this beta for a bit, you have had the displeasure of being on the business end of either his Boundless SMG or the large turret of his tank. In 20 or so matches that I have been and assistant gunner in one of his tanks we have only lost 2. And I would be more than happy to role with him anytime against the likes of Spartan 269 or STB-TeddNuggent. As for the gentlemen's agreement not to target one another, that is bullocks. Bring your toy into the fray and be prepared to lose it. Remember that we are part of EVE. If you are afraid to lose it, then don't take out onto the playground. Also don't play with any toy that you are afraid to break or destroy. The reality is that HAV/tanks are NOT SUPPOSED to be CHEAP. They are big expensive pieces of equipment. If you can't afford to replace it, then don't field it. And if you do, don't cry about how unfair it is that you loose it. Cost benefit analysis should be conducted and concluded upon before making the decision of fielding said equipment. As for dealing with HAV's, teamwork and communication are the only solutions necessary to get the job done, even with the most basic pieces of equipment. People should begin to spec up on flux grenades for those shield tankers and I have yet to see really any forge gunners. So if people are really feeling the pinch, they should coordinate with someone that is a tanker. Either way this game is about contextualizing the circumstances of a given situation and adjusting accordingly with team mates. IF folks choose to IGNORE the availability of in game comms, then they open themselves up the romping and stomping of a solid tanker and his gunners. I know I will happily take advantage of said situations with the tankers of our corp, especially when our opponents set themselves up for failure to their lack of communication and coordination. Oh hell, I loved my Sagaris, and I always maintained that they were stupidly cheap.
Jack McReady 46	Posted - 2012.08.27 07:41:00 - [9] - Quote Kazeno Rannaa wrote: As for dealing with HAV's, teamwork and communication are the only solutions necessary to get the job done, even with the most basic pieces of equipment. this could not be more wrong. teamwork works against a SINGLE bad tank driver but it does not work against a group of properly driven tanks.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.08.27 08:53:00 - [10] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Kazeno Rannaa wrote: As for dealing with HAV's, teamwork and communication are the only solutions necessary to get the job done, even with the most basic pieces of equipment. this could not be more wrong. teamwork works against a SINGLE bad tank driver but it does not work against a group of properly driven tanks. I solo kill tanks quite often, it's just a matter of luring drivers into a bad position and then applying the proper amount of DPS. If I can do it solo with militia gear in a scout suit, people have no excuse to be complaining about them.

Vitriol18 Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 56	Posted - 2012.08.27 10:41:00 - [11] - Quote The one thing i would do to nerf tanks, is simply to make them slower, instead of being able to just rush into the enemy then rush away if they start taking any damage to rep up, they would need to advance with infantry to take out any AV they missed. This is more teamwork orientated then the current marauder omgwtfsolopwn moblies we currently have, hell people working together would probably make them even more dangerous. I would probably limit the number of tanks that could be spawned at one time, with only 16 people in each team, there is a limit to how much you can do to a blob of 4-5 high end tanks.
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 61	Posted - 2012.08.27 11:29:00 - [12] - Quote It will take a month or so for enough ppl to have skilled av before some of those tanks really have to worry. They will whine, complain, and rage on the forums... Just like last time. But its not the tanks fault, its ours. Although, this time it will get even more interesting as they can form squads with remote reps, which I didn't see much of last build. I actually want to see more of that because I'm interested in if it will be effective and what different tactics it will take to cripple them or kill them... besides just an alpha strike where they have no chance to rep.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.08.27 11:35:00 - [13] - Quote I wrote on a thread about the new build and said that tanks would be a problem again probs Looks like i was right and tbh is all because its easier to skill into a tank to begin with, the surya only requires lvl 3 HAV, the missile launchers the basic one is fine and the blaster requires lvl4 i think It takes longer to build a AV heavy tbh
Aardwolf Pneumatic SyNergy Gaming 18	Posted - 2012.08.27 11:37:00 - [14] - Quote Tanks are fine the way they are. They're invested in by people who are serious about the game, and not by the casual run-and-gun gamers, who tend to just skill up in Anti-infantry weaponry. Simple solution. If you want to kill a tank, skill up in anti-tank weaponry, and invest in a headset and some team comms.
Aardwolf Pneumatic SyNergy Gaming 18	Posted - 2012.08.27 11:38:00 - [15] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: I wrote on a thread about the new build and said that tanks would be a problem again probs Looks like i was right and tbh is all because its easier to skill into a tank to begin with, the surya only requires lvl 3 HAV, the missile launchers the basic one is fine and the blaster requires lvl4 i think It takes longer to build a AV heavy tbh You do realise that Gallente/Caldari HAV skills are x12 SP?! It costs well over 1.5m sp just to get to a Surya, LET ALONE all of the module skills and turret skills....dropsuits are far easier to skill up in, and cheaper in ISK.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.08.27 11:47:00 - [16] - Quote Aardwolf Pneumatic wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: I wrote on a thread about the new build and said that tanks would be a problem again probs Looks like i was right and tbh is all because its easier to skill into a tank to begin with, the surya only requires lvl 3 HAV, the missile launchers the basic one is fine and the blaster requires lvl4 i think It takes longer to build a AV heavy tbh You do realise that Gallente/Caldari HAV skills are x12 SP?! It costs well over 1.5m sp just to get to a Surya, LET ALONE all of the module skills and turret skills....dropsuits are far easier to skill up in, and cheaper in ISK. Wrong A dropsuit such a proto requires LVL5 at x8, hell advanced is lvl4 HAV only needs lvl3 at x12 Also if you use a proto SL or forge requires LVL5 skills and then all the reloading and extra skills you can learn at 5x which will help you be quicker at destroying a tank For turrets you can cut alot of that out, you dont need to reload and can just spam it everywhere Granted the tank is expensive but the grind is less and you will get quicker results and prob easily make the isk back, if you go AV is quite expenisve if you go full proto, even advanced is expensive but also if ther is no tanks you need to have another loadout with another primary weapon which requires different skills
Aardwolf Pneumatic SyNergy Gaming 18	Posted - 2012.08.27 11:52:00 - [17] - Quote A method ive used since the release of the beta. Train up in weaponry first. Advanced gear will hurt standard tanks. Proto gear will hurt proto tanks. Simple as, you dont need to go proto until the tanks go proto. You dont need to invest in all the reload and range skills because it doesnt affect the raw power of the weapon. If you can get a hit or two on a tank with a forge gun when you have lvl4 forge gun ops. and lvl5 weaponry, that tank is in trouble. doesnt require a full proto suit....
Jimbo Boilstaff Algintal Core Gallente Federation 83	Posted - 2012.08.27 12:04:00 - [18] - Quote Ive given up trying to kill tanks,,,, tactically it makes so sense because they are so strong.... And so they should be,,,, they cost a lot and they're tanks..... set in the future in a sci-fi universe there's no way you'd have battles without death machines prowling the planes.... Stop focusing on killing them,,, all you need to do is f them up enough they run away..... from a tactical standpoint-- as soon as a tank loses its shield it'll RUN RUN RUN away,,,,, and then killing can resume (3 people short on the other team because the tanks hiding) Of course,,, this doesnt work so well with 5 tanks lol.... i was in those matches yesterday fighting against what i believe was a squad of tank commanders...... all i can say is,, well played--- if you've specced that far into tanks already and organised yourselves like that,,, the blatant sacrifice you've taken in stats in other places... then im sure you deserve the points and kills im a firm believer that the balance is fine,,, just takes some organisation to deal with tanks effectively.... Why does anyone expect to be able to solo a tank??? Or to that matter, a team of tanks playing in cahoots with each other?? Totally unrealistic.... now a squad with swarms, AVs, Fuses, medics and so on,,,,,, welll then things are a bit different
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.27 12:05:00 - [19] - Quote Snake is bang on the money. I don't see surya's / Sagaris owning the field currently. It's my favorite gunnloggi and madrugar's. Now these need 650k SP before you can roll them out. Tbqh that's ficking bullshit. Just a lvl 5 Swarmer/forgegun alone takes more SP. Tell me that's perfect imbalance lol. Lvl3 whatever suit 573440 SP. I get NOTHING for that. Or I could pretty much unlock tanks. Bad balancing. Oh and organisation to kill tanks is fine until they're organised too. still roll assault when playing with tankies. AV soldiers are easy kills.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.27 12:42:00 - [20] - Quote Pent'noir wrote: It will take a month or so for enough ppl to have skilled av before some of those tanks really have to worry. They will whine, complain, and rage on the forums... Just like last time. But its not the tanks fault, its ours. Although, this time it will get even more interesting as they can form squads with remote reps, which I didn't see much of last build. I actually want to see more of that because I'm interested in if it will be effective and what different tactics it will take to cripple them or kill them... besides just an alpha strike where they have no chance to rep. And they're going to find out how woeful the anti-tank options are.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.27 12:44:00 - [21] - Quote Aardwolf Pneumatic wrote: A method ive used since the release of the beta. Train up in weaponry first. Advanced gear will hurt standard tanks. Proto gear will hurt proto tanks. Simple as, you dont need to go proto until the tanks go proto. You dont need to invest in all the reload and range skills because it doesnt affect the raw power of the weapon. If you can get a hit or two on a tank with a forge gun when you have lvl4 forge gun ops. and lvl5 weaponry, that tank is in trouble. doesnt require a full proto suit.... Wrong wrong wrong. you need relaod and range deperately in this build as Forge gun nerf range is horrific I had mine range to proficiency 2 before wipe and could barely hit anything at supposivly acceptable forge gun range.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.08.27 13:11:00 - [22] - Quote Yeah, only thing FG needed was to have splash dmg removed. Should be returned to earlier range. Also, thr "arc" needs to be smoothed out on the SL missiles. This way you can aim them over a hill if a tank retreats behind cover and you already have a lock. Otherwise, just slow them down a little. However, i'd rather just buff the AV weapons, since the tanks have already been nerfed a little.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2012.08.27 13:16:00 - [23] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Kazeno Rannaa wrote: As for dealing with HAV's, teamwork and communication are the only solutions necessary to get the job done, even with the most basic pieces of equipment. this could not be more wrong. teamwork works against a SINGLE bad tank driver but it does not work against a group of properly driven tanks. I solo kill tanks quite often, it's just a matter of luring drivers into a bad position and then applying the proper amount of DPS. If I can do it solo with militia gear in a scout suit, people have no excuse to be complaining about them. Last build? yeah tank killing was EASY. This BUILD trying to kill a tank on foot is ******!!!
oneshytalk Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.08.27 13:21:00 - [24] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Kazeno Rannaa wrote: As for dealing with HAV's, teamwork and communication are the only solutions necessary to get the job done, even with the most basic pieces of equipment. this could not be more wrong. teamwork works against a SINGLE bad tank driver but it does not work against a group of properly driven tanks. I solo kill tanks quite often, it's just a matter of luring drivers into a bad position and then applying the proper amount of DPS. If I can do it solo with militia gear in a scout suit, people have no excuse to be complaining about them. You are sir are a lier and full of it !
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.08.27 13:29:00 - [25] - Quote Infantry combat is becoming more and more unappealing. Just make Dust 514 a all vehicles game at this point because it's by far the only satisfying thing to do. And also having to wait months to get fighters is not going to help this situation: I expect people to realize that they have wasted months into anti-vehicles gear while begin a fighter pilot will turn out to be far more funny & effective. Also why can't we have rockets like any FPS: all these futuristic anti-vehicles guns are less effective than a good old RPG and it's depressing.
howard sanchez Conspiratus Immortalis 448	Posted - 2012.08.27 13:33:00 - [26] - Quote Tank balance = capacitors, webifiers & energy neutralizers
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.08.27 13:42:00 - [27] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Tank balance = capacitors, webifiers & energy neutralizers That will defo help Kinda of annoying that we dont have basic AV mines to lay down
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.27 13:46:00 - [28] - Quote Yeah we need electronic warfare bad.
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.08.27 13:54:00 - [29] - Quote In PlanetSide 2 rockets are perfectly enough to destroy a tank or an aircraft. Why can't we have them here as as well it's mystery to me. Sometime the simplest solution is the best one.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.08.27 14:07:00 - [30] - Quote oneshytalk wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Kazeno Rannaa wrote: As for dealing with HAV's, teamwork and communication are the only solutions necessary to get the job done, even with the most basic pieces of equipment. this could not be more wrong. teamwork works against a SINGLE bad tank driver but it does not work against a group of properly driven tanks. I solo kill tanks quite often, it's just a matter of luring drivers into a bad position and then applying the proper amount of DPS. If I can do it solo with militia gear in a scout suit, people have no excuse to be complaining about them. You are sir are a lier and full of it ! I am not a "lier", clearly you've never properly used AV grenades and a supply depot.

The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.08.27 16:13:00 - [31] - Quote Are we getting Attack ships like jets in the future? That would help out to take out tanks if the weapons are strong enough on it. Cause a dropship alone is not really a good idea to attack a tank espacially when some 1 on the other team just pulls out his swarm launcher.
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 145	Posted - 2012.08.27 16:19:00 - [32] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Kazeno Rannaa wrote: As for dealing with HAV's, teamwork and communication are the only solutions necessary to get the job done, even with the most basic pieces of equipment. this could not be more wrong. teamwork works against a SINGLE bad tank driver but it does not work against a group of properly driven tanks. Only if you don't take into consideration terrain and the proper deployment of your team. And if you are really smart, the proper way to dispose of tanks is from the air. Why I don't see drop ship pilots I will not know (i guess the new flight mechanics may be an issue, but still). Survive, Adapt, Overcome. And BTW: excuses are like a**holes. Everyone has one, they all stink, and no one wants to listen to yours. This is one of the reasons that several times I have requested some ACTUAL foliage on the map, you know to provide some actual coverage for movement and deployment of troops and tank traps. Not to mention to save those of us stuck on the ground when the dropships start flying around and raining death.
VigSniper101 204	Posted - 2012.08.27 16:22:00 - [33] - Quote Odiain Suliis wrote: That tank madness was... intesting... I lost ALOT of clones to those damn tanks. Tried to shoot them from those tower balconies, but I allways seemed to get those swarm missiles stuck in the railing and never even exploding! And yes those swarms were pretty much pea-shooters tho tose tanks, then again I'm skilling to logi so... But atleast I dented those babys. I hate those bloody things...now to snipe from there l have to sit on top of them...l may as well have a sign that says "Im here, shoot me please".
VigSniper101 204	Posted - 2012.08.27 16:23:00 - [34] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Are we getting Attack ships like jets in the future? That would help out to take out tanks if the weapons are strong enough on it. Cause a dropship alone is not really a good idea to attack a tank espacially when some 1 on the other team just pulls out his swarm launcher. I believe l read that yes, there will be jets.
STB-stlcarlos989 EV Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 936	Posted - 2012.08.27 16:35:00 - [35] - Quote There is a reason that the best assault specialists from the last build are now using scout suits and tanks. I haven't spec'd into tanks but my friends who have spec'd into tanks tell me that they make quite a bit more SP and ISK in them then I do as a very skilled assault specialist. I really like dust but this game won't attract many skilled gun players if the best way to get skill points and kills is to sit inside of a tank. Yes this game offers many other aspects besides the FPS role but still how fun will this game be for non-EVE players if its all vehicle combat and unskilled infantry players.


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