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Ranger SnakeBlood
38
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Posted - 2012.08.24 14:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently in the game the animation could total reload a weapon then you start sprinting and your back to square one with a empty mag, i think that during reload you should either be locked out of using sprint while it is done or the reload timer is set to finish once the new mag is put back in place |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.24 14:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
How about reloading have 'save' spots. For example removing previous magazine would result a save spot right then and there if interrupted. Locking in the new magazine results in another. Priming the weapon final. |
Kryshalis
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.08.24 14:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
How often does a real soldier reload his weapon without actually putting the magazine in his gun? |
Ranger SnakeBlood
38
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Posted - 2012.08.24 14:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:How about reloading have 'save' spots. For example removing previous magazine would result a save spot right then and there if interrupted. Locking in the new magazine results in another. Priming the weapon final.
Very good idea donno bout the last part havent noticed any guns needing to have the first round primed tho i think its something that should be included if applicable of course (its applicable if a gun is completely emptied and has no round in the chamber while reloading) |
Mobius Kaethis
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
306
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Posted - 2012.08.24 14:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Your first idea is how the game played in the previous build. As a player community we requested the ability to cancel a reload by sprinting since it helps you survive if you need to run away after you start the reload process. If you ran a search of the forums and read some previous posts you would have found this.
As far as your second idea I think it has not been done because of a combination of realism and challenging programing.
Realism: During certain parts of the reload process it is unreasonable to be able to sprint without restarting the reloading process. For example, having just released a magazine I decide to run from someone the spent magazine will fall to the ground causing me to loose an expensive (this is sci-fi remember) plasma containment chamber. I don't want to do that.
Difficulty in programing: The Dev's would have to develop a set of code that would be able to identify if the person had reached an appropriate point in the reloading sequence to be able to continue the reload from there, or if it needs to be restarted. In the previously mentioned scenario the merc in question could just slam the spent mag back into place when he/she starts running, so instead of loosing the empty mag he would have to restart the whole process. This is as opposed to the merc having already removed the mag but not started to insert a new one yet. The program would have to then recall the exact point in the reload animation and move from what ever you were just doing to that point in the animation sequence in a realistic way. If I had my dithers it would also show the merc running about with no mag in the weapon, which is just another challenge for the devs. As I've written this I don't actually think it would be that challenging to code but it would be very fiddly and annoying to do well. Furthermore partial reloads should only allow you to sprint (and stop the animation) at certain points in the animation, thus preventing a restarting of the animation sequence, which would be annoying for players.
I want reloading kept the way it is CCP. Please do not go back to the reload of last build. |
Daemash Drak'sis
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.08.24 15:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lets look at it from a realistic perspective. (I know, its a game, bear with me)
Have you ever tried to reload an assault rifle at a full sprint in 50+ pounds of gear? I have- it doesn't happen. Take a knee behind cover and reload there.
Mobius is 100% correct- the players requested the ability to sprint therefore cancelling the reload because sometimes you start taking fire mid-reload and need to get the hell out of dodge and assess the situation. Use that sidearm soldier! |
Kryshalis
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.08.24 15:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Agreed. when you are in a firefight and run out of bullets, you should always switch weapons first, and reload when you are behind cover/enemy is dead. |
Ranger SnakeBlood
38
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Posted - 2012.08.24 15:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ok i understand what most of ye are saying i have no problem with the slam the empty mag back in there to cancel reload and give it legs if it goes wrong but my solution seems to be being misunderstood maybe i worded it oddly sorry my english is a bit sub par what i was refereeing to was that there appears to be a delay between the new mag going in and reload complete and i have not noticed the character needing to chamber a new round during this cycle,
Its not a big deal just as far as the slam the spent mag back in does not make sense realistically if there is a new mag in place already if the mag is in place only thing that needs to be done is put spent mag into where ever he puts it which could be what the little delay is iam not sure i just found it annoying as iam used to the when mag goes in your gun is good to go unless you need to chamber a round of course if reaload is canceled during the time between the new mag going in and reaload finishing then the new mag magically drops out to where it came and troop slams the spent mag back in, i hope i cleared up what iam referring to or is it in my head or something. |
Jack McReady
46
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Posted - 2012.08.24 15:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Daemash Drak'sis wrote:Lets look at it from a realistic perspective. (I know, its a game, bear with me)
Have you ever tried to reload an assault rifle at a full sprint in 50+ pounds of gear? I have- it doesn't happen. Take a knee behind cover and reload there.
Mobius is 100% correct- the players requested the ability to sprint therefore cancelling the reload because sometimes you start taking fire mid-reload and need to get the hell out of dodge and assess the situation. Use that sidearm soldier!
this guy has no clue and tries to be a smartass =D
1. reloading of modern assault rifles takes 2 seconds at most, check the steyr aug which is the default weapon in austrian army: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xfUNe4S2zE @0:33
2. austrian rangers do it while carrying 80 pounds of equipment
3. dust is not real life |
spill milk
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.08.24 15:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
The only issue I have with the reloading is that when I feel as if the action has been completed, based on what appears to be a completed animation, I immediately hit sprint out of habit. Sometimes, however, the action was not completed. This is frustrating if I do not realize that this has happened and I run into an opponent. Odds are, I'm gonna run out of ammunition and have to reload. If I am a class without a sidearm, I'm hosed.
My suggestion is to have a small feedback indicator, such as a circle whos outline becomes highlighted, based on the progress of the reload. Once the outline is full, the reload has been completed and the player may now sprint. Aside from this minor grievance, the sprint cancelation works just fine. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.08.24 15:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
The ability to sprint out of a reload isn't the issue.
The issue is that a reload takes longer than the animation at present.
The problem is that animation speeds aren't matching up with reload speeds for all the weapons.
There are 2 possible fixes:
1. Improve the animation.
2. Make a really clear and obvious reload indicator on the HUD (a slow-filling circle around the reticule has worked for several other games I've been playing recently) that people will pay attention to instead of the animation. I think there may already BE an indicator, but it's one your attention isn't easily held by. I quite like the animation in Brink, actually - it's just a slow-filling circle, but the point where it's closing up spins, so it draws your attention while you reload, making it much more of a focal point. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
675
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Posted - 2012.08.24 16:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Currently in the game the animation could total reload a weapon then you start sprinting and your back to square one with a empty mag, i think that during reload you should either be locked out of using sprint while it is done or the reload timer is set to finish once the new mag is put back in place
Reloading while sprinting would be the best way. |
Kro'nak Ragnok
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
79
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Posted - 2012.08.24 17:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wow! Really? Has noone actually reloaded an actual real (not toy) weapon before? Heck, has noone even actually ever sprinted before?
When a person sprints they are running as fast they possibly can. During that time, the ability to do anything with their hands is drastically reduced to the point thats its not even worth attempting. If a person was doing a light jog or fast walk then maybe they should be able to reload while doing that, but NOT during an actual sprint.
As for reloading an actual weapon you either start & finish it or you go magazine-less. There is no "pausing" or calling of a "time out" in which the magazine clip (of ammo) magically stays frozen in mid-air at the exact point where you stopped your reload, patiently waiting for you to stop running, so that it can continue where you left off. I mean people should be greatful that they magically don't lose bullets when they reload without finishing off the ammo in their previous magazines. They should be greatful that its magically not possible to drop full magazines during a bad or improper reload when moving. Heck when a reload animation is improperly stopped, the removed old magazine magically ends right back up in the weapon and is perfectly able to fire if the bullets have not all been fired off in it. Next I guess kids will be asking for amunition that never ends & magazines that never need to be reloaded.
Seriously how much realism do you want this game to remove? How much of an arcade game do you want this to be? I personally like the realism that it aims for. I like having to tactically decide if reloading now is more important or if quickly moving to another location is more important. I'm "not" spoiled enough to demand both & I "am" mature enough to accept my actions for making the wrong choices. Sometimes I think people that have never & will never fire a gun demand too much from games that aims to be a realistic shooter (albeit a realistic futuristic shooter, if that is not an oxymoron).
*If the argument, however, is that a person should be forced to lose their removed magazine during an improper weapon reload stop & not be allowed to fire their weapon until they stop running and insert a new magazine in, which doesn't require them having to re-remove their magically re-inserted old magazine, then I'd be all for that. That actually would help make this game standout out more from other games... more than it currently is doing. |
spill milk
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.08.24 18:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ooookay...I don't think people are expecting magazines to freeze in mid air. I think they are talking more of a "milestones" approach to reloading. For example, if the animation shows that the magazine has been fully removed from the weapon, it will stay removed if the player decides to sprint. Then, when they stop and press the reload button again, they do not have to go through the process of removing the magazine again, because it has already been done before.
As for realism, I don't think people have any issues with the game being unrealistic. You are in space for crying out loud. As a matter of fact, all games, to some capacity aren't very realistic. Tell me, on average, how many times a human being can be shot before dying. I'd say one to three times. Yet most games allow an avatar to be riddled with bullets (yes, even those that boast "realism") before becoming incapacitated. Why? Because dying that fast doesn't make for a very fun game. Players like to feel that they have a fair amount of time to react and turn the tide to their favor. With that said, don't fret over realism. It shouldn't be a factor for most games, least of all this one. |
Khabarakh Khimbar
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2012.08.24 22:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
There are a few technical things to consider in this matter. The animation and reload times are likely sync'd, to accommodate the skill that improves reload times (e.x. if my reload speed is improved via skill/whatever, the animation should reflect that). It is possible, and not entirely unlikely, that the animation and reload times are not sync'd, which makes tuning either much simpler, but feels cheap. Depends on the animation system that the engine provides, and modifications added by CCP.
A simple solution is to not allow sprinting or specific unspecified character state changes to interrupt the reload script. Even better, allow sprinting to be engaged during the last, say, third of the reload sequence without interrupting reloading. The timings of this could of course be tunable on a weapon by weapon basis, as desired.
Now, with bullet points:
-If a player engages sprint early during the reload, it should interrupt the reload.
-If a player engages sprint late* during the reload, it should not interrupt the reload.
*Late: tunable per weapon. Accounts for weapon reload duration reductions.
-If a player is sprinting, they should not be able to begin their reload sequence
-OR-
-If a player is sprinting, beginning their reload sequence should pull them out of sprint.
It's pretty straightforward all around, and would hopefully alleviate the agitation felt by players that interrupt their reload by sprinting microseconds before the currently invisible reload duration has been completed.
That's another simple solution; provide a visible reload timer that is synchronized to the reload time of the weapon (accounting for modifiers, of course). The reload animation is not a precise enough source of information on how much longer the reload will take. This would probably require more dev overhead to implement (new UI sprites, code paths, etc.) than writing a few conditions to sync reload/sprint. |
Varys Targaryen
200
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Posted - 2012.08.25 23:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
I agree with the OP.
This is a huge annoyance in this game (not the most important issue but really annoying to me).
The animation should be timed with full reload time. Instead, currently, once you slap the magazine in place, you still have to wait 9 years for you to place your hand back on the barrel grip. And if start sprinting before your hand is in place, you have to start the process all over again.
Even though I have gotten used to it now, it used to mess me up all the time when I first started playing. It was very off-putting.
The reload mechanic is not very smooth, so it needs to be changed. |
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