DUST Search - The New Build From The Perspective From An LAV Driver

Dante Daedrik wrote:

I respectfully disagree about the maneuverability of Swarms. You don't realize how often those missiles collide with buildings or rocks because they're too dumb to go around when chasing an LAV or other vehicle. I honestly wish the Swarms would shoot up like a javelin missile to at least get clearance from obstacles.

Also, if an RPG can hit a moving humvee, I think guided missiles (which have the propulsion of rockets) should be able to catch up to a combustion engine vehicle...

And if a standard M67 grenade can take out a jeep, then especially an AV Grenade should be able to take one out in game.
Put the SP and ISK into your LAV if its a problem.

I hate how Dropships can out-maneuver Swarms but, I feel its semi-balanced. I'd rather them have flares though to throw off my missiles, because I hate using all my Swarms to take one out only for it to buzz off.

Regarding Tanks though. Worst headache for an AV Scout. Between amount of shield HP & Shield/Armor Reppers, they are practically impossible to take down.

I also don't understand how you expect anyone with RE's to take out vehicles now. Last build it was workable, but now with the 5-second arming time & limit of 2, they are a useless item.

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Indy Strizer Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.08.23 14:43:00 - [1] - Quote Running people over with the LAV in this build is definitely less effective, you need a gunner to keep your distance since just about everybody is carrying AV grenades now. However, having on a gunner on the LAV is STILL not effective... The turret turns very slow, and it's hard to aim with the vehicle bumping all over, not the mention, the gunner is very exposed... You can't outrun swarm launcher missiles anymore, and if forge guns are anything like they were in the last build, then they are still very effective against an LAV... Not to mention, the screen shakes more than it would during an earthquake when you run somebody over, you can't drive over people also because you now get stuck, the handling is very slippery now... The new ideas are great, but I feel they're not being implemented properly... Good or bad? I do not know. After driving the LAV in the last build and working on trying to get specialized in it, I managed to pull through and be somewhat sucessful in an unconventional style most players were unprepared for... It seemed unthinkable that anyone would want to drive an LAV to some of my friends who were playing Dust514, the tank was preferable to most players by a long shot. Still, I did and I had a great time and was effective. Enemy players tried using the swarm launcher and I easily outran their missiles, players with remote explosives, mass drivers, tanks or players who guarded the objectives and waited for me to jump out were the ones killing me. I had to survive by driving all over the map and a different set of anti-vehicle tactics and weapons were needed against the LAV. All gank and no tank as they say. In the new build, you can't outrun swarm launchers with the LAV, yes you can evade somewhat, but it reallly isn't all that effective, there have been a few times I've tried to evade only to get blown up. Also, AV grenades are surprisingly powerful, while I do like them added to the game, they seem a bit too powerful. Overall, I am disappointed by this new build in regards to the LAV, I'm getting the feeling that the LAV is slowly being relegated to a frugal 3-man transport rather than... a... well... a light attack vehicle... especially with the first one being a free coffin on wheels. I thought such vehicles were made for anti-infantry purposes? The LAV certainly isn't effective against tanks or drop ships or destroying objectives... So... What is it effective for anyways? These are a few things I'd like to change in the game in regards to the LAV: 1. No Free LAV: No vehicle should be free, not even an LAV, I'd like to know why the LAV is free, if it's free because it "sucks too much to make players want to buy it", then the devs should make it not suck and priced it accordingly, not vice versa. I'm sure if players see one LAV doing well, they'll think about using it too, I saw it all the time in the last build. The beginner level LAVs should be balanced with beginner level player weapons and vehicles, it should not just be a free coffin on wheels. REASON 2. The free LAV has had it's role evolve from an assault vehicle into a method of transporting players- that's the drop ship's function, not the LAV. It's strange that the roles of these vehicles have become reversed. The diversity of gameplay suffers because of this in my opinion. REASON 3. LAV spam is seriously out of hand in this build. 2. Swarm Launchers shouldn't catch a full speed LAV REASON 1. As things are, everything works very well against an LAV. The Swarm Launcher should not because not only is it fun to outrun these missiles for an LAV player, but it makes other players use different weapons like remote explosives and mass drivers, it was fun being hunted down by other players who got sick of being runned over and finally decided to get me with remote explosives or a mass driver. This is really important because it makes team work more important, otherwise, players are content with using a swarm launcher for any and all vehicles they see and may encounter... 3. Increase the LAV Gunner's Turn Speed: As things are, it's hard to follow a target on a full speed LAV. Again, I've found that this makes players want to just use the explosive turrets on the LAV rather than the blasters- let alone the rail gun! The LAV is not a tank, you need to let players be situationally aware, especially since the gunner is so exposed. The ride can get really frantic and bumpy. Anyways, guys. Sorry this was so long. Take care and leave your thoughts.
Altessan Vigarde Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 84	Posted - 2012.08.23 15:00:00 - [2] - Quote As a non-LAV driver, these all seem like good ideas, except maybe or #2. Personally I like the idea someone put forward for deployable flare modules that counteract swarm launchers.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.08.23 15:11:00 - [3] - Quote Yeah, countermeasures that recharge or something might be cool, but being able to outrun missiles is a bit silly. I hate that dropships could do it. Also, the gunner really needs to have some kind of a shield attached to the gun that makes him safe from hits from the direction he's facing. The gunners are too exposed right now, I think.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.23 17:10:00 - [4] - Quote Following the recent wipe I just tried the LAV and encountered the following: - The Roadrage of the LAV is still VERY effective. If I'm in a game with no tank ... or no Pezzy MCDuff (or what his name is ;) ) with his surprise hidden assault forge gun... I can still race around like a maniac and run over lots of enemy pedestrians. The only difficulty is that they tend to get stuck to the fender which can be quite deadly. Same goes for killed passengers that stick to the vehicle model. - Concerning AV Grenades and Swarm launcher: Both are indeed dangerous to the Baloch. Right now they are very good at taking out a Baloch in one / 4 hits. The true thinker on this is if the AV should act like AV mines and if the Swarm Missiles should have such a high maneuverability. Locked Swarms tend to turn on the spot right now and chase after you if you managed to evade them head on. I encountered this more then just one time. BUT After I started using the Saga and AT-1 Launchers it definitely got better. As I also do evolve a Swarm Launcher Scout parallel to this I noticed that the damage of the easily accessible LVL1 Launchers don't do a higher damage per missile which make them equally dangerous to the LVL 1 LAV as the Militia Swarm Launcher. The bigger clip doesn't help as you usually only have one shot on thew LAVs. So after you got some Armor or Shield upgrade on your LAV you will soon notice that it starts to stand it's ground. (as long there are no skilled forge gunners, highclass AV Swarms or tanks around) - Concerning LAV Spams: Aye there are lots in the beginning of the game, esspecially on Skirmish. But Dropships are no alternative yet. With a Viper hull already being at 150k there is some need for low cost / free transport and a base to build your first LAV fits on. The Baloch is in that role right now. If it it will stay there .. I doubt it until release. Maybe there should be militia vehicles at a rate of 5k to 10k isk and a free transport only vehicle. Some sort of shuttle from EVE. A civilian "coffin on wheels" ^^ - Outrunning Swarm missiles: Have you already tried doing this with high level nanofibers? We will also get better engines some day. But I don't think that a usual configured vehicle should be able to counter an actual anti-material weapon this easily. But I agree that the Swarms should be a bit less maneuverable. This would also help the Swarm Launchers as you would be able to skid the Swarm around an obstacle. Right now they just stick to everything WAY too much. - Turret turn rate: Turret turn rates should be adapted to the weapon. I agree on that. But rocket turrets are actually the intended weapon against infantry ( Similar to Autocannons - which we stil don't have) The blasters are just some jack-of-all trades weapon that needs some dedication. The Railgun though is useless right now. You don't even dent the shield with them when against a tank. Maybe if it has some kind of lock-on feature that allows to lock onto tanks/vehicles in a certain rectangle. So you can still move while the gunner shoots. On the range that is intented for the rail (medium to long) it's impossible to hit something when the LAV moves even in a straight line. - Gunner shields: This should be part of advanced Assault LAVs that are parallel to the Logistics LAVs.
Dante Daedrik Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 97	Posted - 2012.08.23 18:06:00 - [5] - Quote I respectfully disagree about the maneuverability of Swarms. You don't realize how often those missiles collide with buildings or rocks because they're too dumb to go around when chasing an LAV or other vehicle. I honestly wish the Swarms would shoot up like a javelin missile to at least get clearance from obstacles. Also, if an RPG can hit a moving humvee, I think guided missiles (which have the propulsion of rockets) should be able to catch up to a combustion engine vehicle... And if a standard M67 grenade can take out a jeep, then especially an AV Grenade should be able to take one out in game. Put the SP and ISK into your LAV if its a problem. I hate how Dropships can out-maneuver Swarms but, I feel its semi-balanced. I'd rather them have flares though to throw off my missiles, because I hate using all my Swarms to take one out only for it to buzz off. Regarding Tanks though. Worst headache for an AV Scout. Between amount of shield HP & Shield/Armor Reppers, they are practically impossible to take down. I also don't understand how you expect anyone with RE's to take out vehicles now. Last build it was workable, but now with the 5-second arming time & limit of 2, they are a useless item.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.08.23 18:17:00 - [6] - Quote Yeah, even in that wide open sniper map it takes me a couple shots to even hit the LAV. They're pretty dumb for the most part; always going for the shortest possible route to the target. Good players can curve them around things by swinging the launcher away from the target after lock on, but that only works at relatively short ranges. I'm not saying LAV and Swarm Launchers don't need any balancing, but every nerf in the LAV's favor ends up going double for HAVs, which I'm far more concerned about being able to attack. I really think that LAVs and dropships need a limited anti lock-on countermeasure. Either something that they carry a finite amount of or something with a cooldown. Something to help their survivability that doesn't affect Swarm vs. Tank warfare.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.08.23 18:19:00 - [7] - Quote Dante Daedrik wrote: I also don't understand how you expect anyone with RE's to take out vehicles now. Last build it was workable, but now with the 5-second arming time & limit of 2, they are a useless item. They're not totally useless. People are still boobytrapping objectives with them.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.23 18:31:00 - [8] - Quote Dante Daedrik wrote: I respectfully disagree about the maneuverability of Swarms. You don't realize how often those missiles collide with buildings or rocks because they're too dumb to go around when chasing an LAV or other vehicle. I honestly wish the Swarms would shoot up like a javelin missile to at least get clearance from obstacles. Also, if an RPG can hit a moving humvee, I think guided missiles (which have the propulsion of rockets) should be able to catch up to a combustion engine vehicle... And if a standard M67 grenade can take out a jeep, then especially an AV Grenade should be able to take one out in game. Put the SP and ISK into your LAV if its a problem. I hate how Dropships can out-maneuver Swarms but, I feel its semi-balanced. I'd rather them have flares though to throw off my missiles, because I hate using all my Swarms to take one out only for it to buzz off. Regarding Tanks though. Worst headache for an AV Scout. Between amount of shield HP & Shield/Armor Reppers, they are practically impossible to take down. I also don't understand how you expect anyone with RE's to take out vehicles now. Last build it was workable, but now with the 5-second arming time & limit of 2, they are a useless item. A RPG grenade can indeed hit a moving target. But even the smartest missile doesn't turn at the spot to hurry after the target. It got to fly a curve and not do a bootleggers turn and come after you again if it missed the first place. And YEAH Swarm missiles are really dumb right now. You got to run into the open and be above the target to get them hit anything. Nothing like shooting them a bit higher and them coming down in a contorlled arc.
Dante Daedrik Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 97	Posted - 2012.08.23 22:21:00 - [9] - Quote Seran Jinkar wrote: A RPG grenade can indeed hit a moving target. But even the smartest missile doesn't turn at the spot to hurry after the target. The OP mentioned that we wanted to be able to drive faster than the rockets. I was referencing Combustion Engine Speed vs. Rocket Propulsion Speed. Otherwise I agree with your post.


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