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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
80
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Posted - 2012.08.23 18:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think there are some very valid points here. However, I have to preface with: A lot of things were changed in the Precursor build, which means they're going to be worse before they're better. Things are almost always worse before they're better. I noticed a lot of things got broken with the latest build, not the least of which was connectivity issues. Those will need to be fixed before the launch. If they're not, then yes, CCP is shooting itself in the foot.
One reason things are a lot less advanced than you'd think after 3 years is because so much is different on the back end. You have to set the foundations before you put on the roof. Maybe interactivity with EVE sounds like the roof to you. It's not. It has to go into the foundations. If you want players to be able to modify the map, that has to go into the foundations. Everything you want your players' skills to affect has to go into the foundation. What did they spend 3 years doing? Well, in all likelihood they spent 2 years not building a shooter, but the foundations for a complex MMO. I don't know this, but I suspect it just based on my experience building complex, extensible platforms.
Hit detection. I haven't noticed nearly as many problems as you have, which probably means it's not bad so much as buggy. File bug reports when this happens and we'll see it get worked out.
Minimap. I do think there are problems with this. The "dropsuit command" skill is supposed to serve as a stealth mechanism, but it needs to be disrupted more easily. Big heavy assault vehicles should pretty much always be obvious; logistics vehicles not so much. Firing a weapon should give you away. I haven't seen many threads about this one, but I think it's an important improvement.
Spawning. Needs tweaking. It's really variable but not at all unfixable, and it's a problem that really seems to have been introduced in this build, so at this point they've had less than a week to fix it. This has been discussed in many other threads.
Tank/AV balance. I agree completely. At low levels, it's pretty easy for a militia swarm launcher to kill a militia vehicle. At high levels, a tank is a much, much safer purchase than an equivalent spend on AV weapons. This is being discussed in many other threads.
One last thing: Please try to keep it civil and don't go insulting the people who make the game. There's a lot to improve, but these people are working hard at it. And it's rare, especially at this stage, to fix anything without breaking anything. Patience, please. Everyone have patience. |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 20:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
fenrir storm wrote:But hey lets please most of you the games ready for release it's fantastic especially the fps bit.
I've seen a couple people say the game's ready for release, and it's as ridiculous as saying the game is total garbage. Nobody reasonable believes the game is near primetime. But many of us do see that it's going in a good direction and want to encourage it to grow that way.
On the other hand, some of us apparently want the devs to realize they're total idiots and just give up. I don't understand that. |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 21:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
fenrir storm wrote:Yup you cant post anything of late nagative without some one jumping in and going off on one .No one seems to like anything unless it suits there own point of view, discussion has gone out of the window
It's all about the way you frame it. If you're posting to say DUST is terrible and everything about it is stupid and sub-par and it's so bad it can't be fixed, what are you trying to discuss? Try framing it as, "I think there's a fundamental problem here that we should look at, it's a lot of work to fix it but I think it's crucial to the game." |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 21:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
fenrir storm wrote:Hey all I said was the op had some valid points and wait for the flame to start then i get it in the neck and commented on some one who replied whine whine whine, just goes to prove a point but i'm gonna leave it now as most people are ok it's just a few who spoil it 
I realized too late that my "you" would come off as you specifically and not the editorial "you," as in addressing the larger audience. You specifically have said some useful things.
I too think the OP provided some valid points, mostly points that are already being discussed in other places. I don't think the OP's tone was very productive, but he provided more useful feedback than a lot of the negative posters.
Tony Calif wrote:It plays ok. There's still no feeling of "soul" and it's still pub par even compared to sub par games. It's improving though.
Until it's as good as crappy games like say cell factor ; psycokinetic wars, we can fully expect post like this and they are valid. Especially from someone who played in the fanfest tournament.
I can get behind this. The gameplay is interesting enough to keep me on board for now, but obviously there are a lot of problems with it and it does lack that certain je ne sais quoi to get you really absorbed in its world. |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 23:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Immortiano Dranon wrote:And someone said that the foundation should be the link to EVE. Yes and no. First and foremost, this is an FPS. Where people shoot each other and expect them to die if they empty a clip between their eyes. Starting this project without any prior experience and not getting the core FPS elements right is a huge mistake. You can not build on something that masquerades as an FPS when you still haven't ironed out hit detection.
And yet I don't get a free beer? Shucks.
What I meant about the foundation was that there are so many things that need to be in place technically before you can really start building out even what you see as the core gameplay--or maybe it would be more appropriate to say, things that need to be built alongside the core gameplay. So to say they've had 3 years to make it a good shooter, isn't really being fair to what they're trying to do. They've been laying the foundation for a shooter that they won't just release and forget, but something that will evolve just like EVE evolves. That in itself takes more time than just making another shooter.
Immortiano Dranon wrote:I know I've pissed a lot of people today with this thread, but if things don't take a turn for the best, I'm afraid this won't end well for CCP. No matter how cool orbital strikes will be. I love CCP and I love the concept of DUST. I just don't see it leading anywhere good if the devs don't refocus on what's important.
There are threads where a lot of these things are being discussed. I think your post has produced some results, but I think these other threads will get better results because they're not crying "fix this!" so much as they're developing better pictures of the problems.
As much as I dislike people just posting on this forum to bash DUST development, I think the frustration that's expressed about many of these core elements reaches the devs. It's no secret that there's a lot of room for improvement, and I'm glad you pointed out where you see that possibility. Even if I do think there are better ways to do it. |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 14:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
GIZMO2606 wrote:OP is right on a lot of points. If Dust really has 2 builds before it's ready than CCP needs to step up and start working on the core factors and stop adding in features to hide them. The game is lacking in a lot of points and game play mechanics is one of the big ones it's lacking in. The shooter aspect is highly broken in the game and needs to be looked at. The mini map is unless. Hit detection is better but needs a lot of work still. Only people that think the game is going good is fanboys lying to themselves wanting the game to be good.
The problem with saying they're "adding features" to "hide" flaws is that the features already exist, they're just in successive builds. We all knew there would be EVE tie-ins and orbital strikes and all that. I've played some of these games where they just ride roughshod over the problems while they develop new features, and that's obviously not what's happening here. They're rolling out features because they need to get rolled out at some point and they've either accomplished what they were trying to achieve testing the previous build, or (as I suspect it is with Precursor) they have to roll out certain features on a certain timeline for specific reasons. Putting DUST on the Singularity server is a big enough deal that I expect it dictated the timing of the Precursor rollout.
Anyway, my point is that it's only been a week since the newest build was rolled out, let's not jump to conclusions that they're not listening to us when we say there are really basic things that need to get fixed. Precursor was a big jump that created a lot of bugs that didn't exist in the last build, and those seem to be getting resolved.
Hit detection is a bug. Needs to get fixed. Period.
I don't understand the whole "mini-map is useless" argument, other than showing the objectives around the edges as the OP suggested (good idea). Sure it can be frustrating, but once you understand the idea behind detecting your enemies based on their signature, it actually provides a really interesting dynamic that will become tactically useful as more skills and equipment are rolled out. (On the other hand, that still takes forever for a new player to figure out. It's not intuitive that your signature corresponds to your slipperiness on the mini-map radar, and it's not a convention that exists in any other game including EVE in my experience.) |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 14:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Stefan Jacobs wrote:The only things I think it should be able to detect regardless are tanks and dropships if they are within a certain distance of you, as they are pretty hard to miss, and the overview map seen when issuing squad orders should show everything, so you can issue orders accordingly.
+{as many votes as I have}
Vehicles, especially HAVs and dropships, should never be able to get such a small signature that you can't detect them from across the map. HAVs are still dropping off my radar from 20m away, which is ridiculous. Dropships maybe, if you get really high and have a low-profile dropship, but never tanks.
Not sure that you should be able to see everything on the overview map, but what if you get collected data from all your subordinates? That way you can at least see everything that your squad sees, without having a way to get around stealth mechanisms. And you have enough data to make a decision without having all the data. |
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