DUST Search - The Game has REALLY slowed down...

Icy Tiger wrote:

With the recent update increasing prices and decreasing Skill Point gain, while still keeping diminishing returns in place, the game has slowed down by a lot. Most games have only infantry combat, a couple LAVs here and there, and rarely do people use tanks or dropships.

Skill Points play an integral part of the game, because they dictate the pace. As of now, with the SP speed, and the diminsihing returns, it's really hard to get anything done. At most, even with a lot of kills, revives, team spawns etc. I have only gotten 62 000 SP max. Most of the time its 35 000 or less. Add in diminshing returns, and this number gets even lower.

I am proposing that there be a 2x multiplier on the SP gain, to find a middle ground between this build and the last. ISK prices should stay the same, maybe even jump 10% higher, so that the risk/reward factor still remains.

CCP, you have said that the whole Skill Tree would take 7 years to completely fill out. I doubt that the game would last that long, (games rarely do) and an increase would be welcome, as well as keep the attention of passer by players.

Thoughts, feedback?

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Icy Tiger 496	Posted - 2012.08.19 15:11:00 - [1] - Quote With the recent update increasing prices and decreasing Skill Point gain, while still keeping diminishing returns in place, the game has slowed down by a lot. Most games have only infantry combat, a couple LAVs here and there, and rarely do people use tanks or dropships. Skill Points play an integral part of the game, because they dictate the pace. As of now, with the SP speed, and the diminsihing returns, it's really hard to get anything done. At most, even with a lot of kills, revives, team spawns etc. I have only gotten 62 000 SP max. Most of the time its 35 000 or less. Add in diminshing returns, and this number gets even lower. I am proposing that there be a 2x multiplier on the SP gain, to find a middle ground between this build and the last. ISK prices should stay the same, maybe even jump 10% higher, so that the risk/reward factor still remains. CCP, you have said that the whole Skill Tree would take 7 years to completely fill out. I doubt that the game would last that long, (games rarely do) and an increase would be welcome, as well as keep the attention of passer by players. Thoughts, feedback?
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.08.19 15:13:00 - [2] - Quote Well I don't want to complete the game in 2 days and the SP adds in the feeling of challenge and accomplishment most games don't have.
NEGA LEAVESEY Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2012.08.19 15:21:00 - [3] - Quote Well, I'm over 1m SP in first few days of new build and I doubt I'm leading the way there - Can't imagine its gonna be too long before you start seeing high end stuff on a more regular basis. Also, what diminishing returns ? As players start to get into higher grades suits/ships etc the sp and isk return will increase.
Reefersmokintaz Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 34	Posted - 2012.08.19 15:24:00 - [4] - Quote IIRC, EVE has skills that would take over 30 years to complete....EVEs been up for 9 years....Alot of time to go! If Dust has the loyal fanbase EVE does, yes it will last longer than 7 years m8
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.08.19 15:26:00 - [5] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: With the recent update increasing prices and decreasing Skill Point gain, while still keeping diminishing returns in place, the game has slowed down by a lot. Most games have only infantry combat, a couple LAVs here and there, and rarely do people use tanks or dropships. Skill Points play an integral part of the game, because they dictate the pace. As of now, with the SP speed, and the diminsihing returns, it's really hard to get anything done. At most, even with a lot of kills, revives, team spawns etc. I have only gotten 62 000 SP max. Most of the time its 35 000 or less. Add in diminshing returns, and this number gets even lower. I am proposing that there be a 2x multiplier on the SP gain, to find a middle ground between this build and the last. ISK prices should stay the same, maybe even jump 10% higher, so that the risk/reward factor still remains. CCP, you have said that the whole Skill Tree would take 7 years to completely fill out. I doubt that the game would last that long, (games rarely do) and an increase would be welcome, as well as keep the attention of passer by players. Thoughts, feedback? No matter what loadout you're using, there is literally NO combination of dropsuit and vehicle fitting that allows you to use even 1/4 of all the skills you can train in the current beta build. The more skills they add, the smaller this will be. People very quickly gravitate towards a preferred playstyle, and will develop their skill choices based on that playstyle, and the fitting(s) their playstyle suits best. It's reasonable to expect most players to be fully skilled up for whatever role they play within a year.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.08.19 15:38:00 - [6] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: With the recent update increasing prices and decreasing Skill Point gain, while still keeping diminishing returns in place, the game has slowed down by a lot. Most games have only infantry combat, a couple LAVs here and there, and rarely do people use tanks or dropships. Skill Points play an integral part of the game, because they dictate the pace. As of now, with the SP speed, and the diminsihing returns, it's really hard to get anything done. At most, even with a lot of kills, revives, team spawns etc. I have only gotten 62 000 SP max. Most of the time its 35 000 or less. Add in diminshing returns, and this number gets even lower. I am proposing that there be a 2x multiplier on the SP gain, to find a middle ground between this build and the last. ISK prices should stay the same, maybe even jump 10% higher, so that the risk/reward factor still remains. CCP, you have said that the whole Skill Tree would take 7 years to completely fill out. I doubt that the game would last that long, (games rarely do) and an increase would be welcome, as well as keep the attention of passer by players. Thoughts, feedback? I agree, the game's progression has slowed down a little too much. We must remember that they are still testing out how much experience is gained per battle and it is subject to change. That said, I don't think that they are too far off the mark with this build. Similar to EVE, DUST will reward the dedicated. If you are expecting to level up in a couple of weeks, you are playing the wrong game.
Obama DAT Doomheim 389	Posted - 2012.08.19 15:47:00 - [7] - Quote I love the skil point distrobution as is. Makes each game a challenge and when you have those 50k skill point games you know you earned it. I havent noticed a slowing of the game, mainly because I run scout suit.
Saiibot Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 142	Posted - 2012.08.19 18:27:00 - [8] - Quote Garnering over 1 mil sp over the course of THE WEEKEND= geeky no-lifers
Kengfa 138	Posted - 2012.08.19 18:30:00 - [9] - Quote Saiibot wrote: Garnering over 1 mil sp over the course of THE WEEKEND= geeky no-lifers Posting on a beta forum = GEEKY NO-LIFES Or, the alternate and more likely case IDIOTS
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.08.19 18:33:00 - [10] - Quote I'm getting my dropship up and running. It's just taking some time. I think it's kinda nice to see everyone on a low level page for once. imo i was a rad dude at one time, i didnt have to stand in line or pay cover charges at the bars I would walk past the line high five the bouncer = and my first drinks were usually free from the bartender.. but those days are gone and now I'm a nerd.. i dont miss the bars at all. if thats what you really wanna call living the life, it's way over rated

The Goram Batman 13	Posted - 2012.08.19 18:41:00 - [11] - Quote The slow progression is a hell of a lot better than it was previous build. Before, it felt like just some console shooter with the EVE skill set up. Now, with the slow skill pacing, and the high costs of good equipment, it feels like EVE in a console shooter. I believe they should keep it this way, and not 're-add' the proposed 2x multiplier. Those amounts you are getting are good, but if you increase them as much as you proposed, then it'd be like the previous build again, and we'd have people running around with 45 million SP or more. tl;dr: Welcome to a CCP game
Bob Deorum G I A N T 14	Posted - 2012.08.19 18:43:00 - [12] - Quote idk i think the skill gain is to high, in eve you can only get 2m sp a month. as it stands in dust you can easily get 10m sp a month. THat is a **** load. I think 5m a month is a good number so cut it in half. You should not be able ot get into a prototype tank with all proto fittings in one month that is unrealistic, it needs to be closer to about 2 or 3 months. i think that the skill gain should be almost completely passive and just allow the games and matchs to be a small bump to get you where you need to go, as it stands the matchs and games is basically the only way to get sp because the passive gain is so low. I would be really surprised if ccp has not seen this already and plans to nerf the skill gain again, so I hope you guys are ready it is going ot get real.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.08.19 18:48:00 - [13] - Quote After the dropships were essentially nerfed, my motivation to grind through countless ambush games to fly something that had little reward is pretty low. Once we can reliably do Skirmish only games I'll spend more time considering if I'll continue playing. But I just picked up DayZ/Arma II so I may try my hand as a chopper pilot.
Daddrobit Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 277	Posted - 2012.08.19 19:10:00 - [14] - Quote Bob Deorum wrote: i think that the skill gain should be almost completely passive and just allow the games and matchs to be a small bump to get you where you need to go, as it stands the matchs and games is basically the only way to get sp because the passive gain is so low. I would be really surprised if ccp has not seen this already and plans to nerf the skill gain again, so I hope you guys are ready it is going ot get real. How can this even be considered fun? You want a majority of the gameplay to be not playing the game? You want an FPS where you don't actually have to play the FPS to get better at it? Where's the logic in any of this? The SP gain should take a long time to accrue, yes, agreed. However, if I or anyone else plays considerably more than someone who just creates a character and plays two matches a week, we better not be anywhere /near/ on the same level of equipment and skills. Passive skilling should compliment your playing the game, not playing the game compliment not playing the game.
Devil Biff Imperfects Negative-Feedback 55	Posted - 2012.08.19 19:26:00 - [15] - Quote Hate to say it Icy T, but this is how it will be. And they will never go passive, at least all the way. They may branch it and have some active an some passive.-á It would feel odd to all fps players if it was all passive.-á And I think that Icy T's post really is a summation of how many, Americans especially, are today: "I want it! And I want it now!" while they pout they aren't getting it.-á I -áAmerican as well. I see it everyday.-á
Stormagedon LordofChaos 1	Posted - 2012.08.19 19:26:00 - [16] - Quote It seems this is a disagreement between EVE players and Modern Warfare players. In the EVE universe, skill is based on time, assets are based on playing. The difference in price between low end and high end are absurd in EVE. A person who only plays a couple hours on the weekend will never have the money to support that stuff, even though they will have the skills in a couple months. Keep in mind that there are items in EVE which boost the rate you gain skill points, which they have in Dust as well. You may have to pay real money for it now, but they say the items will be player made once it's connected to EVE. In EVE, EVERYTHING is player made beyond the rookie ships, which are the equivalent to the basic fit suits. Point is that even if someone who doesn't play much has skills kind of close to yours, they still won't be able to afford the same stuff you can if they don't get paid for contracts. It's as though people don't realize that every time a tank or a drop ship blow up, someone is losing over a million ISK. That's how they control who has what equipment. Using the free market economy, not some arbitrary skill gain system designed to be "fair" for those unwilling to grind for ISK. This is CCP, not EA and thank God for that.
Odtica 7	Posted - 2012.08.19 19:27:00 - [17] - Quote You have to put this skill plan and ISK level into a different perspective. In EvE, your choice in skills and ships play a pivotal role on the grid. I see Dust being no different. Do you go for the quick skill to get 5% damage, or do you wait and get the gun with 30% more damage? Your call, and it's going to be a choice you have to live with. The ISK rewards are low, yes, because the contracts are NPC-based. Consider that player-run corporations might pay a lot more for a planet. And that brings me to planets. In EvE, there are resources to fight for that will bring in mountains of ISK. That is where you are going to get your ISK once Dust is released. You will have to fight for it. Either you fight to conquer and hold a planet, or you slog through countless Instant Battles/Skirmishes. My point is: This is the EvE universe where your choices in suits, weapons, and skills are something you will have to live with. Start making sound decisions now while you're in Beta. Then, fight for the resources to make the big ISK.
Samuel Haines Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.08.19 20:12:00 - [18] - Quote I too am good with the SP progression. I 'played' EVE for a long time, but all I was really doing was getting passive SP because I could not afford the time to actually play, so I wanted to have a good character by the time I was able to game. I ended up with over 40 million SP, but no cash, so I could not do anything but level 2 missions (really easy). Anyway, Dust is out now, so that is where my play time will go, but like the poster above said. It isn't SP that makes the difference in the EVE universe, its the ISK. Of course with the ability to buy AUR items, I can see that being shifted somewhat. But, I doubt there will be many people willing to sink tons of real money into an FPS. I'm sure there will be some people. Depending on my schedule I may do it. If I can only afford to play one day on the weekend for four or five hours, then it may be in my interest to get some AUR items. The gamer in me would prefer that I play the game and 'earn' my stuff, but if all I can play is 4 times a month then I want to be competitive during those times. Its a matter of balancing my life with my gaming. That being said, the majority of SP still comes from combat, which is good. I would have to hang around a long time playing 4 times a month for 5 or 6 hours to get to a point where I can use proto stuff. That is fine. I'll just specialize in one thing and try to be good at that. I guess the person we have to fear is the incredibly wealthy DUST player who does not have to work and is willing to drop unlimited cash into the game, but I think, for the most part, this person is not going to be playing DUST.
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.08.19 20:23:00 - [19] - Quote I think we gain 50,000 a day. That's 1.5 million a month for doing nothing. How is that slow ? You take a 3 month break aNd you come back to 4 million to spend. but no isk , and people playing longer still out level you. A nice mix of the two and you should have 12 million sp in 2,3 months.
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.08.19 20:31:00 - [20] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: I'm getting my dropship up and running. It's just taking some time. I think it's kinda nice to see everyone on a low level page for once. imo i was a rad dude at one time, i didnt have to stand in line or pay cover charges at the bars I would walk past the line high five the bouncer = and my first drinks were usually free from the bartender.. but those days are gone and now I'm a nerd.. i dont miss the bars at all. if thats what you really wanna call living the life, it's way over rated I get i,nto raves for free sometimes Becuase I know friends, I work on video games and I play 3 hours a day without ruining my career.

Ranger SnakeBlood 38	Posted - 2012.08.19 20:43:00 - [21] - Quote I think the way it is set up should resemble the eve system a bit more in skill training in real time like in eve with the same skill points to time as eve, the skill learned by time should be the sort of weapon operation(ability to use different weapons), engineering, meckanic, shields ect as this would make sence as it is learning how to use rather than actual ability with it that is were i would suggest bringing in a secondary skill tree or the likes, mabe have it called xp for simplicity which is used to get better with equipment you already have, or natural skill of the character. Examples of this would be: AR operation would be sp based as these skills are linked to the operation of the weapon and the following varients rather than how well it is used. AR proficiency would be xp as it is based on how well the operator can use the rifle rather than his knowledge of how it works or how to operate it. I think both stats should be tracked if they are implemented seperatly, another way to do it would be if the xp based ones increased as the item in question is used rather than assigning it to a skill,what do people think of this suggestion
Amadeus Demetrius Bragian Order Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2012.08.19 21:00:00 - [22] - Quote Devil Biff wrote: Hate to say it Icy T, but this is how it will be. And they will never go passive, at least all the way. They may branch it and have some active an some passive.-á It would feel odd to all fps players if it was all passive.-á And I think that Icy T's post really is a summation of how many, Americans especially, are today: "I want it! And I want it now!" while they pout they aren't getting it.-á I -áAmerican as well. I see it everyday.-á What does being American have ****-all to do with that post. Leave your views out of it no one cares


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