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Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2012.08.18 21:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
People still aren't leading their shots.
Scout suits are still running around taking down anyone stupid enough to aim at where they ARE instead of where they WILL BE.
I've seen a few moments where hit detection looks problematic, but the problem with Scouts was NEVER about hit detection, it was about projectile speed. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.08.18 21:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Winscar Shinobi wrote:Shooting a scout in the back just to have him run off with 1 Health then appear behind me and kill me faster than I could damage him isn't about leading shots, as soon as he starts moving, even in a straight line, he starts going neo all on my bullets.
Because you're aiming AT him, not IN FRONT of him.
Like I said.
If projectile speeds were increased significantly (the ACTUAL problem), then short-range firefights wouldn't require the current amounts of leading you have to make to land hits on fast-moving targets.
That's still not a hit detection issue. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.08.19 11:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mo Gallas Gentralde wrote:You're right, its not a hit detection issue because the scouts can outrun the bullets. what?
No, they CAN'T. You're aiming AT them when you need to be aiming IN FRONT of them (in the sense of movement direction, not aim direction). So it's pretty much a learn to aim issue.
The bullets COULD do with travelling faster (they're already faster than a Scout suit though, so not sure WTF you think you're trying to babble about there), and there ARE still occasional hit detection issues where shots trigger a target's shield animation, but continue through the target and deal no damage. That's NOT the issue you're describing though, and as a frequent Scout player myself, I have no problems killing Scouts whether I'm one or not, unless they legitimately outplayed me or forced me to fight how THEY want instead of letting me control the fight.
Engage your enemy at a range that gives YOU the advantage, instead of the target. If you can't do that, you deserve to die. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.08.19 13:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Taco Dropsuit wrote:Saying "you have to shoot ahead" only applies to VERY SLOW projectiles, regular projectiles don't even have a "flying speed', they're "instant hit", which is a lot easier for the server as it doesn't have to keep the state of a moving projectile.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Except that YOU clearly don't know what you're talking about, because "instant hit" means "hitscan" and this game DOESN'T use hitscan for most of its weapons, which is WHY so many people who can't lead their shots think there are hit detection issues that aren't really there.
Bullets from ARs, SMGs, etc. are NOT hitscan in this game (at least in the current build), and they DO have travel time, and you DO have to lead your shots to account for that fact. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.08.19 14:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Taco Dropsuit wrote:Do you have a source to back that up?
Doing that would be heavy on the server and they have to optimize every bit to even be able to include a 4v4 map.
Making games is not an easy task, buddy.
No hitscan at all? yea right.
War for Cybertron had literally only one hitscan weapon (and that was the repair gun), and ran 6 vs. 6 with almost no trouble using player-hosting. Built on the same game engine that CCP are using for DUST, by the way. Competent netcode and dedicated servers should be able to handle more players with a similar system.
Also, when did I say "No hitscan at all" - provide a quote. It's NOWHERE in ANYTHING I said about DUST in ANY forum ANYWHERE, EVER. Nice try on blowing my (easily tested for yourself if you actually know what you're doing) statements out of proportion. There probably are hitscan weapons. I think the Forge Gun might be, and I'm fairly sure it was in the previous build. Pretty sure Railguns were hitscan as well - haven't tested either in the current build though. But in this build, I've only used Swarm Launcher, SMG, AR and watched my girlfriend with a Sniper Rifle, and I can say with absolute certainty that none of those weapons are working on hitscan, and that all of them require you to lead your shots.
I can ALSO say that there are issues with the projectile speed that mean you have to lead your shots more than is reasonable in close quarters. This might also be related to the lag issues you were mentioning, but it's NOT specifically a hit detection issue. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.08.19 15:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Khulam Alkon wrote:there is definately an issue with hit detection if i'm shooting at a stationary target and have to use an entire mag (using bursts of fire of course) and only getting a few hits with each burst at very close range...
I can agree with that, because you're talking about a legitimate hit detection issue.
At no point have I said there aren't problems with hit detection.
But when the problem is SCOUTS, specifically, that's NOT because of hit detection. Or at least not ENTIRELY because of hit detection.
Scouts are hard to hit because people suck at hitting fast-moving targets when they have to lead their shots. For most weapons in this game, you have to lead your shots, so fast-moving targets (which Scouts are MEANT to be) will be hard to hit. Blaming that on the hit detection is refusing to learn to aim.
Complain about the hit detection, because it's a problem. But ALSO complain about the projectile speed, because that's what the ACTUAL problem is for the OP, and that's what I'm trying to point out. I'm not saying he's wrong about there being hit detection issues. I'm saying he's targeting the wrong thing in his complaint. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.08.19 17:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ourors wrote:uh, the fact that people need to lead shots is WHY the hit detection looks so bad.
Fixed.
It's still not hit detection.
And after a good run going back and forth between laggy and non-laggy games, I've found what I think is causing the problem.
Lag causes firing delays. In one match, I managed to fire a shotgun, turn 90-Ü while strafing, and see my shotgun fire from where I had been almost a full second earlier.
THAT's why you're having to lead your shots so much in close quarters.
I've had similar with grenades previously (throwing a grenade while running backwards, and seeing it spawn in mid-air in front of me about half a second later), but thought it was only with grenades. Apparently I was wrong. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.08.19 17:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ourors wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Ourors wrote:uh, the fact that people need to lead shots is WHY the hit detection looks so bad. Lag causes firing delays. In one match, I managed to fire a shotgun, turn 90-Ü while strafing, and see my shotgun fire from where I had been almost a full second earlier. if the final release of this game is going to be dependent on leading all shots as if these futuristic rounds are somehow traveling at way subsonic speeds, this is going to be a bad game. plain and simple. you might cry "harden the **** up!" "this is a real shooter!", ect, but it will be a bad game with a very small and intensely rabid fanbase refusing to listen to reason. kind of like the old republic i really hope that does not happen
I'm not arguing that there's no problem.
I'm also not saying the game SHOULD be working how it is.
I LIKE that bullets have some travel time, and that at mid- to long-range you have to lead your shots, but the degree to which it's necessary is stupid, and it has to be worked on. And the issue with shots firing late is a nasty lag-related problem that makes it worse.
I agree that there's a problem, I'm ONLY pointing out that the problem isn't ONLY with hit detection - and in particular pointing out that hit detection ISN'T any worse on Scouts than any other suit. |
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