DUST Search - Explaination of what "Free to play" means

Dzark Kill wrote:

J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:

Somebody around here has a superiority complex... 0_o

No, the problem here is that you see "Free 2 Play" as "Free 2 Download and Play Only".

Those who disagree (including me) say that "Free 2 Play" means not only "Play", but have as likely a given chance of winning with NO MONEY sunk into it. If I can play all I want, but those who pay have a much higher chance of winning if we are evenly matched in skill (say, if AUR dropsuits had 10,000 shield hp and were OP), then I regard the Game as Pay 2 Win.

In essence,
You are happy to be able to play a game thats explicitly advertised as "Free 2 Play" and not "Pay 2 Win", and have to pay for features that many regard as a must have in a teamwork based game, such as Corp and Alliance chat.

Others regard that as a fallacy and point out this:
That by making key features or parts of the game that are key to success unavailable to the "free" players, you have compromised the integrity of your promise of making a quality free 2 play non p2w game.

Therefore, I reject your (rather condescending) argument, as I do not regard a game with useful features barred off to the free players as a true "Free 2 Play" game.

Now lets face it, this is mostly about UVTs. I regard them as a bad idea not in use but in ideals, as it keaves a kind of bitter taste in a game thats "Free" to have to pay for voice comms on private chats. And fo be honest, will they even be used when you can just squad up with a friend and talk? Also, the whole argument about DUST/EVE connectivity.

Long story short, you can call a bus a Lamborghini if you want to, but everyone else is going to see it for what it is and call it a bus.

Have a nice evening. :)

I can log in to Dust without spending a penny. I can start a game without spending a penny. I can talk to every player on my team in that game without spending a penny. I can equip items that are more powerful than Aurum items (read officer mods) without spending a penny. My team can kill the opposition repeatedly without spending a penny.

Now please rather than whining about a concept that has been made up in your head with no real evidence that concept is correct, explain exactly how my team above would be defeated. ( Unless im mistaken and these UVT token's can be thrown at the enemy causing 1,000,000 to every player in a 10Km radius which i doubt)

If you dont want to spend aurum chatting to people who wont affect the battle too much then pick up you mobile, load skype on your PC, pick up your land line send a text message. There a plenty of ways you can get the exact same functionallity of what people currently assume UVT are for which brings me to my final point. Wait for the mechanic to be fully explained by CCP before passing judgement. Untill then ill keep playing beta without spending a penny and winning on this perfect example of a FREE to WIN game.

Peace out.


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J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:37:00 - [1] - Quote Somebody around here has a superiority complex... 0_o No, the problem here is that you see "Free 2 Play" as "Free 2 Download and Play Only". Those who disagree (including me) say that "Free 2 Play" means not only "Play", but have as likely a given chance of winning with NO MONEY sunk into it. If I can play all I want, but those who pay have a much higher chance of winning if we are evenly matched in skill (say, if AUR dropsuits had 10,000 shield hp and were OP), then I regard the Game as Pay 2 Win. In essence, You are happy to be able to play a game thats explicitly advertised as "Free 2 Play" and not "Pay 2 Win", and have to pay for features that many regard as a must have in a teamwork based game, such as Corp and Alliance chat. Others regard that as a fallacy and point out this: That by making key features or parts of the game that are key to success unavailable to the "free" players, you have compromised the integrity of your promise of making a quality free 2 play non p2w game. Therefore, I reject your (rather condescending) argument, as I do not regard a game with useful features barred off to the free players as a true "Free 2 Play" game. Now lets face it, this is mostly about UVTs. I regard them as a bad idea not in use but in ideals, as it keaves a kind of bitter taste in a game thats "Free" to have to pay for voice comms on private chats. And fo be honest, will they even be used when you can just squad up with a friend and talk? Also, the whole argument about DUST/EVE connectivity. Long story short, you can call a bus a Lamborghini if you want to, but everyone else is going to see it for what it is and call it a bus. Have a nice evening. :)
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:02:00 - [2] - Quote Corvus Ravensong wrote: Benjamin Hellios wrote: Corvus Ravensong wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Quote: Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........ Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition. Again, what did they force you to buy? NOTHING!! What they have done is drag some other extras in front of you and offer to sell you THE EXTRAS, you don't buy em, cool, your game still works just like it did before. You got THE GAME free, you want the DLC skins, and DLC items, well, for those you get to pay - but your game still works FOR FREE even if you don't buy them.......... I'd guess that when you go to a store's grand opening you go for the free hotdogs and then ***** about them trying sell you stuff....... J'Jor, for your amuse I postulate that: 1. every game that you call "pay to win" is also "free to play", it's a common issue with the business model. 2. "free to play" means exactly what it says, you (can) play for free. Chek out DDO, LOTRO, DCUO, Maple Story, Free Realms, and WTF, why not, all the "whateverVille" games by zynga - all of which are "free to play" with optionall paid content. Just because they aren't giving away the table, doesn't mean the hotdogs weren't free...... So there yourself you said it. Every game that is pay 2 win is free to play. So lets all just blindly ignore bad industry trends and buy into it. I'm not. Really, you are overthinking this. DUST 514 is free to download and play. However, if it has portions of access blocked off, only open to people who pay, are we able to "play" the game ENTIRELY for free? No. Thats my issue. I can be fine with paid sidegrades, as long as they don't represent a fundamentally "better choice". So other than on the extent of content you should recieve in a F2P game, I agree with you. But that extent of content is a wide gulf of disagreement, and the basic argument.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.08.17 13:55:00 - [3] - Quote Dzark Kill wrote: J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: Somebody around here has a superiority complex... 0_o No, the problem here is that you see "Free 2 Play" as "Free 2 Download and Play Only". Those who disagree (including me) say that "Free 2 Play" means not only "Play", but have as likely a given chance of winning with NO MONEY sunk into it. If I can play all I want, but those who pay have a much higher chance of winning if we are evenly matched in skill (say, if AUR dropsuits had 10,000 shield hp and were OP), then I regard the Game as Pay 2 Win. In essence, You are happy to be able to play a game thats explicitly advertised as "Free 2 Play" and not "Pay 2 Win", and have to pay for features that many regard as a must have in a teamwork based game, such as Corp and Alliance chat. Others regard that as a fallacy and point out this: That by making key features or parts of the game that are key to success unavailable to the "free" players, you have compromised the integrity of your promise of making a quality free 2 play non p2w game. Therefore, I reject your (rather condescending) argument, as I do not regard a game with useful features barred off to the free players as a true "Free 2 Play" game. Now lets face it, this is mostly about UVTs. I regard them as a bad idea not in use but in ideals, as it keaves a kind of bitter taste in a game thats "Free" to have to pay for voice comms on private chats. And fo be honest, will they even be used when you can just squad up with a friend and talk? Also, the whole argument about DUST/EVE connectivity. Long story short, you can call a bus a Lamborghini if you want to, but everyone else is going to see it for what it is and call it a bus. Have a nice evening. :) I can log in to Dust without spending a penny. I can start a game without spending a penny. I can talk to every player on my team in that game without spending a penny. I can equip items that are more powerful than Aurum items (read officer mods) without spending a penny. My team can kill the opposition repeatedly without spending a penny. Now please rather than whining about a concept that has been made up in your head with no real evidence that concept is correct, explain exactly how my team above would be defeated. ( Unless im mistaken and these UVT token's can be thrown at the enemy causing 1,000,000 to every player in a 10Km radius which i doubt) If you dont want to spend aurum chatting to people who wont affect the battle too much then pick up you mobile, load skype on your PC, pick up your land line send a text message. There a plenty of ways you can get the exact same functionallity of what people currently assume UVT are for which brings me to my final point. Wait for the mechanic to be fully explained by CCP before passing judgement. Untill then ill keep playing beta without spending a penny and winning on this perfect example of a FREE to WIN game. Peace out. Thank you for calling me a whining blithering idiot. It really helps keep the discission civil, ******. Anywho, since people seem to LOVE repeating themselves pointlessly, I will make myself clear. Just because you aren't forced to pay for something, doesn't mean that you don't need it. So now, go ahead and reformat all your previous arguments and give them back to me. I dont care anymore. Honestly, DUST is currently free 2 play, I agree. I have merely been disagreeing with you all about at what point do we consider a game NOT free 2 play. Which is important, especially if CCP keeps adding items such as UVTs.