DUST Search - concerned by the overpowerness of forge guns

Lakega Scerta wrote:

Zero Harpuia wrote:

Please do endeavor to use the search function, as you will find that many, many people have mand the same complaint. That being said, allow me to tear into you like a starving man into a prime steak.

I shall now assume I am a Forge user, whilst you operate a Sagaris, shield tank fit.

What do I give up to use a Forge Gun? All dropsuit choice, movement speed, turn speed, huge amounts of fitting requirements, every weapon but an SMG or Scrambler, the ISK for equipment, and all the skill points needed to make it a viable primary weapon, and I STILL get crushed by any decent infantry because I am designed for AV only. Plus, by the time I fuinish reloading, your repair units have already undone the damage, and you're probably way over the next hill because of how fast tanks are. On the side, I have enough ammo to barely kill one smart Sagaris, you have infinite.

What do you give up to pilot a Sagaris? The skill points to drive one and the ISK for the hull and fitting. You can wear any suit with any equipment and modules you like, and many of the vehicle skills also affect your dropsuits. Ammo is plentiful, and you can kill other armored units as easily as installations or infantry. Also, your survivability is amazingly high as you can evade, tank, and only have to worry about other armor or the rare AV trooper.

Add all that to the accuracy of the turrets and the lack of loss due to the rarity of death, and excuse me, but WHO is too powerful in this scenario? I'll accept some leeway because you are a tank, but knock it off.

and 1 forge gun user half the map away will take my dropship and drop it into low armor and set it on fire with 1 shot, making it completely useless, and without any effort costing me a few games to replace, or more depending on how well I had it equipped.

Now who's OP?

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pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.15 05:14:00 - [1] - Quote i think it's waaaay too easy to pop vehicles with it
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.15 05:29:00 - [2] - Quote Ive argued against them no one supports a even small nerfing of them
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.08.15 05:30:00 - [3] - Quote Please do endeavor to use the search function, as you will find that many, many people have mand the same complaint. That being said, allow me to tear into you like a starving man into a prime steak. I shall now assume I am a Forge user, whilst you operate a Sagaris, shield tank fit. What do I give up to use a Forge Gun? All dropsuit choice, movement speed, turn speed, huge amounts of fitting requirements, every weapon but an SMG or Scrambler, the ISK for equipment, and all the skill points needed to make it a viable primary weapon, and I STILL get crushed by any decent infantry because I am designed for AV only. Plus, by the time I fuinish reloading, your repair units have already undone the damage, and you're probably way over the next hill because of how fast tanks are. On the side, I have enough ammo to barely kill one smart Sagaris, you have infinite. What do you give up to pilot a Sagaris? The skill points to drive one and the ISK for the hull and fitting. You can wear any suit with any equipment and modules you like, and many of the vehicle skills also affect your dropsuits. Ammo is plentiful, and you can kill other armored units as easily as installations or infantry. Also, your survivability is amazingly high as you can evade, tank, and only have to worry about other armor or the rare AV trooper. Add all that to the accuracy of the turrets and the lack of loss due to the rarity of death, and excuse me, but WHO is too powerful in this scenario? I'll accept some leeway because you are a tank, but knock it off.
Lakega Scerta 9	Posted - 2012.08.15 05:34:00 - [4] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Please do endeavor to use the search function, as you will find that many, many people have mand the same complaint. That being said, allow me to tear into you like a starving man into a prime steak. I shall now assume I am a Forge user, whilst you operate a Sagaris, shield tank fit. What do I give up to use a Forge Gun? All dropsuit choice, movement speed, turn speed, huge amounts of fitting requirements, every weapon but an SMG or Scrambler, the ISK for equipment, and all the skill points needed to make it a viable primary weapon, and I STILL get crushed by any decent infantry because I am designed for AV only. Plus, by the time I fuinish reloading, your repair units have already undone the damage, and you're probably way over the next hill because of how fast tanks are. On the side, I have enough ammo to barely kill one smart Sagaris, you have infinite. What do you give up to pilot a Sagaris? The skill points to drive one and the ISK for the hull and fitting. You can wear any suit with any equipment and modules you like, and many of the vehicle skills also affect your dropsuits. Ammo is plentiful, and you can kill other armored units as easily as installations or infantry. Also, your survivability is amazingly high as you can evade, tank, and only have to worry about other armor or the rare AV trooper. Add all that to the accuracy of the turrets and the lack of loss due to the rarity of death, and excuse me, but WHO is too powerful in this scenario? I'll accept some leeway because you are a tank, but knock it off. and 1 forge gun user half the map away will take my dropship and drop it into low armor and set it on fire with 1 shot, making it completely useless, and without any effort costing me a few games to replace, or more depending on how well I had it equipped. Now who's OP?
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.08.15 05:43:00 - [5] - Quote Lakega Scerta wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Please do endeavor to use the search function, as you will find that many, many people have mand the same complaint. That being said, allow me to tear into you like a starving man into a prime steak. I shall now assume I am a Forge user, whilst you operate a Sagaris, shield tank fit. What do I give up to use a Forge Gun? All dropsuit choice, movement speed, turn speed, huge amounts of fitting requirements, every weapon but an SMG or Scrambler, the ISK for equipment, and all the skill points needed to make it a viable primary weapon, and I STILL get crushed by any decent infantry because I am designed for AV only. Plus, by the time I fuinish reloading, your repair units have already undone the damage, and you're probably way over the next hill because of how fast tanks are. On the side, I have enough ammo to barely kill one smart Sagaris, you have infinite. What do you give up to pilot a Sagaris? The skill points to drive one and the ISK for the hull and fitting. You can wear any suit with any equipment and modules you like, and many of the vehicle skills also affect your dropsuits. Ammo is plentiful, and you can kill other armored units as easily as installations or infantry. Also, your survivability is amazingly high as you can evade, tank, and only have to worry about other armor or the rare AV trooper. Add all that to the accuracy of the turrets and the lack of loss due to the rarity of death, and excuse me, but WHO is too powerful in this scenario? I'll accept some leeway because you are a tank, but knock it off. and 1 forge gun user half the map away will take my dropship and drop it into low armor and set it on fire with 1 shot, making it completely useless, and without any effort costing me a few games to replace, or more depending on how well I had it equipped. Now who's OP? That one shot had to be lead at that distance... in fact, you probably weren't even within render distance, so it was a pure crackshot. Also, if you are getting hit by the Forge as a Dropship pilot, step up your dodging. You can fly. 3D movement. Up, down, left, right, forward, back. USE THEM. You are soft because you are meant to be support, meant to fly low behind tall cover, and above all, aren't supposed to get hit by a Forge Gun. It is inaccurate as hell, has a large charge time, shakes to offset personal accuracy even more, and, I cannot stress this enough, can only hit a dropship if it is moving in a totally predictable pattern... like say, straight forward, straight up, or not at all. Plus, your Gorgan/Viper is/was free, and even now is cheap and a waste compared to a Prometheus. Try harder.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.15 06:13:00 - [6] - Quote Not that I want to stick my head in this argument again but Isnt the fact that I can happen at all the part that makes this op regardless of who has skill or not the fact it can slaughter infintry dropships and tank with ease? Also another question for you fg users that gun fires with the same damage as a tank main cannon, but it has a shorter barrel?
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.08.15 06:14:00 - [7] - Quote Forgot your post there?
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.15 06:19:00 - [8] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Forgot your post there? Lmao. Dont know why lol. Um yeah the backspace and enter were kinda close and well... yeah.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.08.15 06:30:00 - [9] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: Not that I want to stick my head in this argument again but Isnt the fact that I can happen at all the part that makes this op regardless of who has skill or not the fact it can slaughter infintry dropships and tank with ease? Also another question for you fg users that gun fires with the same damage as a tank main cannon, but it has a shorter barrel? Barrel length is indicative of accuracy, NOT power. Also, I CAN fire a sniper round randomly and hit a man in the head from beyond the draw, and I CAN bounce a grenade off three walls and a pipe to kill two people I wasn't even aware of. You can't nerf luck. On a side note, it can only hit infantry if it gets lucky, dropships are light enough to fly, ergo they can't take too much punishment (concentrated AR fire can kill one), while killing a Sagaris on your own with an FG is impossible unless the Sag pilot is a moron. Sad, but true.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Doomheim 83	Posted - 2012.08.15 08:53:00 - [10] - Quote pew pew youredead wrote: i think it's waaaay too easy to pop vehicles with it Yes, I blow up your tank* 3 or 4 times today(I remember your nick). I hope that you did not felt being service by guy that is not a professional I try to maintain a reputation. A fit that I use in my wicked and crazy plan cost my 392k ISK - I guess that you are satisfied.. *it was not a standard tank, marauder or black ops - guess what it was, and yes I deep in the soul hope that his fit cost more..

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.15 09:01:00 - [11] - Quote First off its already been nerfed. Range was cut down by ALOT (realtively considering it was 'infinite) Accuracy against infantry was also reduced severly takes more shots on average to down infantry most copentent of soliders should be able to down a heavy trying to forge gun them. IMO I think the HAVs got over nerfed I never seen protomans sagaris go down so fast before.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.15 12:32:00 - [12] - Quote They listen to me! I was the only guy arguing for it and the listin to me. Woot. I need a theme song
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.08.15 15:49:00 - [13] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Please do endeavor to use the search function, as you will find that many, many people have mand the same complaint. That being said, allow me to tear into you like a starving man into a prime steak. I shall now assume I am a Forge user, whilst you operate a Sagaris, shield tank fit. What do I give up to use a Forge Gun? All dropsuit choice, movement speed, turn speed, huge amounts of fitting requirements, every weapon but an SMG or Scrambler, the ISK for equipment, and all the skill points needed to make it a viable primary weapon, and I STILL get crushed by any decent infantry because I am designed for AV only. Plus, by the time I fuinish reloading, your repair units have already undone the damage, and you're probably way over the next hill because of how fast tanks are. On the side, I have enough ammo to barely kill one smart Sagaris, you have infinite. What do you give up to pilot a Sagaris? The skill points to drive one and the ISK for the hull and fitting. You can wear any suit with any equipment and modules you like, and many of the vehicle skills also affect your dropsuits. Ammo is plentiful, and you can kill other armored units as easily as installations or infantry. Also, your survivability is amazingly high as you can evade, tank, and only have to worry about other armor or the rare AV trooper. Add all that to the accuracy of the turrets and the lack of loss due to the rarity of death, and excuse me, but WHO is too powerful in this scenario? I'll accept some leeway because you are a tank, but knock it off. you forgot that tanks have 3, 1 hit kill weapons also
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.15 17:12:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: IMO I think the HAVs got over nerfed I never seen protomans sagaris go down so fast before. Careful, you might start a flamewar with words like that. FG squibs will tell you that if they get anything less than 6-8 vehicle kills, they consider the vehicles over powered, and their gun under powered. (This happened in another thread)
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:17:00 - [15] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Plus, your Gorgan/Viper is/was free, and even now is cheap and a waste compared to a Prometheus. Try harder. not anymore
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:35:00 - [16] - Quote Forge guns also got nerfed signifcantly with a range hit, its now possible for dropships to bomabrd forge gunners with impunity and even tanks that gets the high ground.
Mo Gallas Gentralde Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 178	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:51:00 - [17] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: That one shot had to be lead at that distance... in fact, you probably weren't even within render distance, so it was a pure crackshot. Draw distance of tanks and infantry was tripled... I'm not sure where your ship would have to be to not be seen, AND hittable.
Song Soulfire Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 44	Posted - 2012.08.17 06:14:00 - [18] - Quote Mo Gallas Gentralde wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: That one shot had to be lead at that distance... in fact, you probably weren't even within render distance, so it was a pure crackshot. Draw distance of tanks and infantry was tripled... I'm not sure where your ship would have to be to not be seen, AND hittable. still finding targets that aren't drawn, on the bigger maps, with a sniper scope.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.08.17 06:27:00 - [19] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Forge guns also got nerfed signifcantly with a range hit, its now possible for dropships to bomabrd forge gunners with impunity and even tanks that gets the high ground. Add to this that once you get spotted and start taking missile fire you get to have your aim jerked around like an all CP marching band in a blender.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 213	Posted - 2012.08.17 17:32:00 - [20] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Please do endeavor to use the search function, as you will find that many, many people have mand the same complaint. That being said, allow me to tear into you like a starving man into a prime steak. I shall now assume I am a Forge user, whilst you operate a Sagaris, shield tank fit. What do I give up to use a Forge Gun? All dropsuit choice, movement speed, turn speed, huge amounts of fitting requirements, every weapon but an SMG or Scrambler, the ISK for equipment, and all the skill points needed to make it a viable primary weapon, and I STILL get crushed by any decent infantry because I am designed for AV only. Plus, by the time I fuinish reloading, your repair units have already undone the damage, and you're probably way over the next hill because of how fast tanks are. On the side, I have enough ammo to barely kill one smart Sagaris, you have infinite. What do you give up to pilot a Sagaris? The skill points to drive one and the ISK for the hull and fitting. You can wear any suit with any equipment and modules you like, and many of the vehicle skills also affect your dropsuits. Ammo is plentiful, and you can kill other armored units as easily as installations or infantry. Also, your survivability is amazingly high as you can evade, tank, and only have to worry about other armor or the rare AV trooper. Add all that to the accuracy of the turrets and the lack of loss due to the rarity of death, and excuse me, but WHO is too powerful in this scenario? I'll accept some leeway because you are a tank, but knock it off. well said sir. smart tank drivers rarely get popped any ways and wreack far more damage isk and personel wise then forge gunners. Its an FPS every area is going to require skill and the harder you are to take out the better you will have to be becuase the counter to you will be equaly frightning.

fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 213	Posted - 2012.08.17 18:08:00 - [21] - Quote Why is it that when a heavy can do its job people complain about it??? Its the slowest moving thing on the field. you loose races with alien turtles for fucks sake. So yes a heavy suit is powerful but frankly scouts can out DPS with swarms and smgs when you take into account our ability to easily hit things(swarm i dont have to aim, smg ill keep that on you far more easily then you keep that AR or HMG on me) yes heavys tend and should pack a punch because they tend to be easy targets for the rest of us. I know every one hates the adapt of die thing but in this case its not hard, its just not how you want to play. Please be creative or STFU and stop ruining it for people who dont want formulaic play they could get from a single player shooter with a half decent AI. Yes thats right I called you whiners stupider then AIs. ** reason and ** your deaf ears. From now on im flaming every whiner out there. PS Im a scout and have operated every vehicle out there if I can keep sicas and gorgons alive with out putting any meaningful play time into them while still scoring well im sure you guys in your erix and segaris can dominate the field if you learned that you are not the king of the field and should be aloud to dominate.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 213	Posted - 2012.08.17 18:13:00 - [22] - Quote Damn ALOTs cutting down on our accuracy
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 421	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:09:00 - [23] - Quote OMG! The AV weapon can be used against vehicles? It is funny to see the crying when things get fixed. I do not understand why people think the Forge Gun shouldnt be able to take out tanks. That is its main purpose. The Forge Gun does not need a nerf. The Forge Gun was finally fixed.
Ziggie Smalls Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 25	Posted - 2012.08.17 20:13:00 - [24] - Quote I was a bit sadface when I tried out the new forge with the reduced range. Then I remembered if I'm standing in the open trying to snipe a tank with a forge I'm an idiot. Forge guns excel as ambush weapons. If you are getting ambushed in your tank, you ****** up. You went too far without support, and therefore deserve to die screaming in a 1.3M ISK pile of burning metal. Also, if someone is landing consecutive shots with the new forge that takes forever to charge (forget the name) and you're not killing them, stop driving tanks.
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.17 20:18:00 - [25] - Quote oh wow, look at all those crybabies "naaaaaaaaaah not my forge guuuuuuun!! bwaaaaah!! " :'(
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.17 20:20:00 - [26] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: OMG! The AV weapon can be used against vehicles? It is funny to see the crying when things get fixed. I do not understand why people think the Forge Gun shouldnt be able to take out tanks. That is its main purpose. The Forge Gun does not need a nerf. The Forge Gun was finally fixed. i'm not implying anything about a nerf, but since it's so easy to kill armor with that i think it should cost a little more, so when someone loses his forge gunner, he feels as annoyed as someone losing a tank.
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.17 20:23:00 - [27] - Quote fred orpaul wrote: Yes thats right I called you whiners stupider then AIs. ** reason and ** your deaf ears. From now on im flaming every whiner out there.. Sir, I have to say you sound like a pretty big whiner yourself
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.08.18 02:50:00 - [28] - Quote pew pew youredead wrote: SILENTSAM 69 wrote: OMG! The AV weapon can be used against vehicles? It is funny to see the crying when things get fixed. I do not understand why people think the Forge Gun shouldnt be able to take out tanks. That is its main purpose. The Forge Gun does not need a nerf. The Forge Gun was finally fixed. i'm not implying anything about a nerf, but since it's so easy to kill armor with that i think it should cost a little more, so when someone loses his forge gunner, he feels as annoyed as someone losing a tank. You do realize the Forge is supposed to be the cost effective way of removing a tank? It is, quite literally, all gank no tank. We used them to prevent the loss of our own team's tank, and the detriment of everything else.
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.18 11:23:00 - [29] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: pew pew youredead wrote: SILENTSAM 69 wrote: OMG! The AV weapon can be used against vehicles? It is funny to see the crying when things get fixed. I do not understand why people think the Forge Gun shouldnt be able to take out tanks. That is its main purpose. The Forge Gun does not need a nerf. The Forge Gun was finally fixed. i'm not implying anything about a nerf, but since it's so easy to kill armor with that i think it should cost a little more, so when someone loses his forge gunner, he feels as annoyed as someone losing a tank. You do realize the Forge is supposed to be the cost effective way of removing a tank? It is, quite literally, all gank no tank. We used them to prevent the loss of our own team's tank, and the detriment of everything else. cost effective it is, it's like removing an Abrams with a single RPG rocket, there is no risk vs reward compared to a swarm launcher it definitely should see a huge increase in cost. All gank no tank? really? like heavies have no tank? can survive tank long enough to shoot back and you say there's no tank? you do realize your weapon is OP but you don't want to admit it?
Ogre332 0	Posted - 2012.08.18 14:59:00 - [30] - Quote All it takes is a teammate with an AR or sub-machine gun to sneeze at the forge gunner and poof your tank is god again.



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