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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.15 02:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Eve online has them built in sure and you may think its free.
I know you are all angry but at least calm down a short bit and listen.
Not many players know eve online players ALL pay for it out of a deal with ccp and these guys http://www.vivox.com/ thus a small portion of every Eve online subscriber pays for the service.
Vivox is CCP's voice carrier and anyone who does alot of networking will tell you that its entirely unreasonable to have networks align to allow for high pirority bandwidth (which also isnt free) requirements that a member 200+ voice channel requires. This gets expensive QUICK.
Dust 514 Servers are also not free and to toss operational cost of having voice for everyone who may or may not use them and let alone eveyrone who may or may not spend money for aurum its very unreasonable to provide a service that not everyone might use and wont pay for.
Now asking the top 1%ers (eve onliners) to foot the bill is also just as bad considering our simple potential to out number the eve online players it would almost require the paying subscriber cost to rise 2-3 usd and that is beyond unacceptable for eve online players to eat up those costs and ccp would have to close doors later.
Becuase of bandwidtch costs and high pirority request Its a reason why teamspeak server rentals are about anywhere from 300 to 100 USD a month to rent (which some companies go out and subrent to you at a ration much lower than server full strength.)
Its much easier to foot a bill for the battleservers than it is for all possible potential players from ccp points of view but to keep multiple persistent voice channels up and going all the time gets taxing.
At 900 aurum for 30 days thats 4.50 (one penny buys 2 aurum) USD to talk on any channel outside of battle. Which imo is a bit too much for individuals this is more of a corproation price tag to enable voice on thier own channels.
I have to agree the prices are a bit unreasonable. The packages are also wrong the smallest package should be 30 days. Largest one 1 year plans. The invididual ones need to come down much more, While corp owners could possibly foot a bill for the entire corp's own channels to allow non payers to talk as well, at which point the corp can make automated donation pools to help pay for the monthly voice costs.
So here is my suggestion
100-200 aurum for individuals per month (50USD cents to 1USD)
900-1800 for corproations per month (which beats the average teamspeak gamers rent of 15.)
If players decide to have an optional subscription plan, make these implants a bonus item earned with the free aurum monthly.
Alternatively If dust 514 earns with you guys buying more than enough continious revenues we could possibly see these implants go away however that is less likely.
Finally you may ask yourself
Why would I want to use eve online's voice systems?
While you may not agree these features are worth it here are a few unique ones that most outside type comms cant match.
The most unique one is that its API controlled. Non corpers cant wander into your corp channel without having to join yoru corp frist. Non Squad members cannot flood into your channel, non inviteees cannot joint your private chat discussion all because they stole your servers password and booted you out of server's control.
While it may not be a big thing before eve voice came about hostile forces would typically flood the other teams' voice server so severly they would cause it to crash, and the servers that managed to hold up to the new load couldnt be used as all the uninvited guests would noise generate to illegibilize any attempts to communicate and they only did this in the massive fleet flights when its was most critical to have the comms.
Voice modulation, people who use vivox can convicingly sound like other people, its scare how a 30 year old males voice can sound like a 20 year old woman.
Talking to your evil overlords (or space born underlings) instnatly without having such a long convulted long process of registering veryification and the sorts, inviting another voice operator to the channel is simpel as right click, invite, join audio.
While I may not be able to sell you the vivox service I have to agree with most of you 4,50 usd a head is way too expensive.
At least battlecomms are still free. |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
134
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Posted - 2012.08.15 02:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
It has been free for me since the days of Resistance 1.
What part of free psn and then a free to play game was not understood before they decided to go this route, maybe if they had a 40 to 60 dollar package.
Cough MAG allowed me to communicate to my whole team of 128 as OIC pretty darn effectively for free and then I had proxy chat to banter with enemies. |
Boksoon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.08.15 02:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
A serious corp will have it's own 3rd party VOIP service. |
Gilbatron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
81
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 02:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1 for channel wide voice enabled by certain individuals
also +1 for optional subscription model with recurring payment for perma skill boost, voice and maybe some aurum or other goodies for a good price in the 15 euro range |
WOLF T
Violent Force Productions
EntroPraetorian Aegis
0
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Posted - 2012.08.15 02:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Guys look at it like this eve is a subscription based game and ccp does a great job of keeping things up and running pretty much better than anyone else. Also this is a big step in gaming i.e. cross platform real time interaction. just think what they r having to deal with to make this work, let alone what they had to deal with to get sony to let them have access to the psn servers and basically have a permanent outside connection to them. They could have easily charged a monthly fee for this game and trust me the type of upkeep they do it would be worth it. But they opted to make the game free to play so if there is some things that they charge for then its whatever and very understandable. And they r using this beta to balance everything out as well as make sure everything works and that balancing includes figuring out what to charge for stuff isk wise or aur wise so just chill sit back enjoy it and see what they do, they r very fair with everything.
WOLF TAYLOR EVE online player since 2009 |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 02:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Boksoon wrote:A serious corp will have it's own 3rd party VOIP service.
Dunno most corps I've rolled with consider 3rd party VOIPs a liability and waste of money. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 03:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:It has been free for me since the days of Resistance 1.
What part of free psn and then a free to play game was not understood before they decided to go this route, maybe if they had a 40 to 60 dollar package.
Cough MAG allowed me to communicate to my whole team of 128 as OIC pretty darn effectively for free and then I had proxy chat to banter with enemies.
Could you have that voice channel outside of combat though? Currently Dust 514 has free battlecoms but the out of battlecoms are a bigger mess of things.
Its possible to join several channels each with 255 speakers in eve and you can listen to various channesl preset the push to talk to only talk on one and basically set up what is known as a voice tree where infomration gets filtered out to improtant need to know basis.
A dust 514 equivalent example of this would be
Grunts - They're connected to thier squad and can only talk to thier squad level and listen only to the conversations in the squad.
Squad Leaders- They're connected to thier grunts and can listen to thier grunts and listen to the general. They cannot talk outside of thier squad still except to the general. Squad Leaders also have it set up that if the designated recon soldier talks he overrides everyone else.
General - General has his setup so that he only hears the squad leaders chatter as well as the admiral in eve space. He can talk to either squad or Admiral or the planetary commander.
Planetary Commander- is sitting on the warbarge managing contracts moving fonts and sending resources and preplannning he only has to listen to the general for anticipation of next move such as if its a losing fight he throws up better defenses for neighboring districts and higher pay contracts.
Admiral/Fleet - Admiral in space is likely going to be listening to his fleet commanders more than the general but he can listent to the general to gauge how well he is doing on the ground before he commits a fotillia to try an orbital bombardment if currently engage, he can also inform the general if an OB is currently not possible becuase of hostiles and the sorts or if the ground troops need more supplies to bridge them in.
Overall this complciated voice tree can easily reach multiple hundreds of players, most team speak servers cant handle that many folks |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 03:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree in most games, a third party voice chat is a must, but most games don't worry about spies and the kinds of tactics and such that go on in eve. the OP makes a good point about the usefulness of the EVE/Dust voice.
I'm still downloading so I haven't seen the full description of what people are having issue over, so I'll reserve my thoughts about the system until I check it out, but agree a corp subscription for corp only chat would be a good idea. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.15 03:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well currently the things are bugged and not fully working. SO that is an issue right now. |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
134
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Posted - 2012.08.15 03:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
With clan deploy for MAG we had a few games with 36 to 40 people talking at the same time, it wasn't until we launched a game that it was broken up into squads of 8, not 4. All this does is prevent more team work, for a team work orientated game this is stupid.......spies....come on who really cares about them.....unless this is the over-glorified version of stratego I don't care.
Turning console style voice chat into pc style voice chat and the reasons you are providing for it seem lacking to me.
Next thing you know CCP will demand we all get VITA's if we want to be a squad leader, platoon leader or oic.
Sony obviously has not had a problem with providing voice chat for many other games, tell ccp to make sony cover this aspect with the psn we still have to sign in to in order to use the ps3, no matter that we still have to then connect to the dust servers. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.15 03:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:With clan deploy for MAG we had a few games with 36 to 40 people talking at the same time, it wasn't until we launched a game that it was broken up into squads of 8, not 4. All this does is prevent more team work, for a team work orientated game this is stupid.......spies....come on who really cares about them.....unless this is the over-glorified version of stratego I don't care.
Turning console style voice chat into pc style voice chat and the reasons you are providing for it seem lacking to me.
Next thing you know CCP will demand we all get VITA's if we want to be a squad leader, platoon leader or oic.
Sony obviously has not had a problem with providing voice chat for many other games, tell ccp to make sony cover this aspect with the psn we still have to sign in to in order to use the ps3, no matter that we still have to then connect to the dust servers.
Sony isnt providing the voice comms which was reason number 4 why this game cant go microsoft. CCP is providing all the voice services. Sony's voice application is not compatable with 'eve voice' and can never talk to each other.
Also while ccp may never force you to get a vita, those with it would have a much easier time placing down orbital strikes, squad orders and the sorts. My only hope on that font is the app goes smart phone. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 03:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:It has been free for me since the days of Resistance 1.
What part of free psn and then a free to play game was not understood before they decided to go this route, maybe if they had a 40 to 60 dollar package.
Cough MAG allowed me to communicate to my whole team of 128 as OIC pretty darn effectively for free and then I had proxy chat to banter with enemies.
Pretty sure you had to pay for both Resistance 1 and MAG? Not really what I'd define as free. |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
134
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 03:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yep a 1 time fee, it was a lot better than this nickel and dime nonsense which is going to cost me $55 dollars a year anyway.....so why not drop the free to play namesake and call it what it is, free to download but to play you are really going to need $50.
Am I going to have to hear the cries of ps+ users complaining about not getting a later introduced discount? |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.15 03:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:Yep a 1 time fee, it was a lot better than this nickel and dime nonsense which is going to cost me $55 dollars a year anyway.....so why not drop the free to play namesake and call it what it is, free to download but to play you are really going to need $50.
Am I going to have to hear the cries of ps+ users complaining about not getting a later introduced discount?
I can agree to a one time fee.
I also think the cost should be xfered to player corporations and allainces.
Also the item be sellable for isk. |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 03:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hm. Well from what I can tell you only need them for the largest of groups, and/or those whom are in multiple squads all at the same time -- again large corps.
Maybe I am wrong, but as far as I can tell they have a limited and small target audiance at the moment. Maybe that might change upon release when we have more in-game mechanics, but really they are limited for the time being. You can group and create your own squad and chat it up. So I have no real complaints to be honest. Atleast upon this subject.
Though, Iron Wolf Saber, if you want you can explain what they actually do to me. I feel you have more knowledge on this matter then I do. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
648
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Posted - 2012.08.15 04:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:Yep a 1 time fee, it was a lot better than this nickel and dime nonsense which is going to cost me $55 dollars a year anyway.....so why not drop the free to play namesake and call it what it is, free to download but to play you are really going to need $50.
Am I going to have to hear the cries of ps+ users complaining about not getting a later introduced discount?
I would rather pay a defined amount and get free Voice chat like in MAG than be forced to pay CCP this.
Its devolving into what makes other "free 2 play" games ********, they charge you for anything useful and it ends up costing more than a regular $60 game.
If you guysare happy with settling for lesser garbage fine but its a step down from other experiences and i dont buy into it |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rorek IronBlood wrote:
Hm. Well from what I can tell you only need them for the largest of groups, and/or those whom are in multiple squads all at the same time -- again large corps.
Maybe I am wrong, but as far as I can tell they have a limited and small target audiance at the moment. Maybe that might change upon release when we have more in-game mechanics, but really they are limited for the time being. You can group and create your own squad and chat it up. So I have no real complaints to be honest. Atleast upon this subject.
Though, Iron Wolf Saber, if you want you can explain what they actually do to me. I feel you have more knowledge on this matter then I do.
As it stands now I am too fall in the "not happy' catagory as this goes against what ccp calles 'red roping' something they where against or promised us. But thats the one hand the other hand is CCP has to provide voice service to thousands of possible customers and needs a way to pay for it, we have no idea how much stable income (as its free to play anyways) dust 514 could generate.
Though as an IRC and rest of the IRC dwellers there we will promise you guys this much, we're going to have a talk with them and hopefully come out to a better solution than the 'voice access a day' red roping.
I am leaning twoards more of the optional subscription which pays monthly aurum and have this as a free bonus (as this becomes 'stable' income)
I am also for the 'one time fee'
and finally corporation/allaince billing option so all members of that group gets voice (and when a corp is large that can turn into stable income.)
Follow this with making this item sellable this could be the item that determines buyable isk value in dust 514 as the plex does in eve online.
To place this on 'individuals' feels far to cheap counter goals and many many other things I am not happy with either.
I hope this 'answered' your question it was a big vague if I must apologize. |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:Wakko03 wrote:Yep a 1 time fee, it was a lot better than this nickel and dime nonsense which is going to cost me $55 dollars a year anyway.....so why not drop the free to play namesake and call it what it is, free to download but to play you are really going to need $50.
Am I going to have to hear the cries of ps+ users complaining about not getting a later introduced discount? I would rather pay a defined amount and get free Voice chat like in MAG than be forced to pay CCP this. Its devolving into what makes other "free 2 play" games ********, they charge you for anything useful and it ends up costing more than a regular $60 game. If you guysare happy with settling for lesser garbage fine but its a step down from other experiences and i dont buy into it
I would not say I am happy, and I suppose I may have implied that I am indifferent to the situation. For which I apologise. However I in no way wish to see Dust514 or become for that matter a pay-to-winfreemium themed game. By which then all it would be missing is Zynga's stamp and logo (am I right?... Too soon?) No, I want to see Dust514 flourish, and if it is only meant for larger corps or another then I see little complaint, but that does not mean I am any less weary or with my own amprehensians. It's a fine line for which CCP to walk and could end up hurting them if they even stumble or trip up. I do not wish to see that.
I'd say my biggest complaint is the confusion. Yes, the confusion. Even the description is too vague and offers little as to how it is applied as a game function. Is it for larger corp. talking, or is pay is a pay to talk to EVE Online players?.. Confusing to say the least. |
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS
99
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
I can't actually believe you idiots that defend this crap think it's ok, I have never played an online game with friends / clan mates where we have had to pay for comms...... this will make this game fail for anyone with a clan or group of friends more than 4.
So a tiny 4 man squad is ok for free but if you have 5 of you playing you all have to then pay a monthly fee which totals to more for a year fee than any other pay to play game I've bought. Not to mention it doesn't work properly at the moment now anyway. Also if you have 2 squads try getting in the same game on the same side together. Good luck.
This is garbage. I would rather have paid a one off -ú100. for a game that works properly and doesn't take the p1ss. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.15 04:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Very well Ill see about getting clarity from ccp in irc when they show up
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Sniper no Sniping
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.08.15 04:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Boksoon wrote:A serious corp will have it's own 3rd party VOIP service.
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Sniper no Sniping
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.08.15 04:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Boksoon wrote:A serious corp will have it's own 3rd party VOIP service. Dunno most corps I've rolled with consider 3rd party VOIPs a liability and waste of money.
Why are you using the ones that cost money, Use things like C3 and stuff that are free to us
|
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:I would rather pay a defined amount and get free Voice chat like in MAG than be forced to pay CCP this.
Its devolving into what makes other "free 2 play" games ********, they charge you for anything useful and it ends up costing more than a regular $60 game.
If you guysare happy with settling for lesser garbage fine but its a step down from other experiences and i dont buy into it
How does not being able to do idle chat out-of-battle affect your performance?
Seems a pretty clear convenience feature to me, not a strategic asset. And if you need to coordinate before battle there's still text chat. |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Very well Ill see about getting clarity from ccp in irc when they show up
Thank you, for atleast being rational about this all. Wish more people around the community were as such, but again the world is full of differences, and different peoples and opinions. Anway it's the confusion I am bothered by at the moment. In your upper posting in repliance to my own post, I think you made a number of good points, and I am glad you are in the IRC as like myself many here are not in the IRC.
I will agree it goes against the whole of what CCP's objective was and does come off as a sort of "red roping".
Anyway if you could explain to me what it actually does? I mean am I right to assume it's just in terms for deploying bigger, or multiple squads as such for corp battles or gatherings, or is it terms a way to talk directly with EVE Online players? See that is part of my confusion.
Thank you in advance, Saber Iron Wolf. |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS wrote:I can't actually believe you idiots that defend this crap think it's ok, I have never played an online game with friends / clan mates where we have had to pay for comms...... this will make this game fail for anyone with a clan or group of friends more than 4.
So a tiny 4 man squad is ok for free but if you have 5 of you playing you all have to then pay a monthly fee which totals to more for a year fee than any other pay to play game I've bought. Not to mention it doesn't work properly at the moment now anyway. Also if you have 2 squads try getting in the same game on the same side together. Good luck.
This is garbage. I would rather have paid a one off -ú100. for a game that works properly and doesn't take the p1ss.
I do not feel many are what you would say are defending CCP or this proposition of pay to chat feature(s). I feel it's more about being calm and objective at the moment. If anything I feel the majority of us are against it at the moment, but I also feel many are confused by the feature as I know I am. What I feel though is it is a very fine line for CCP to walk. That I am certain of. This is more of what I would say is -- testing the waters. We're being sort of used right now as a mock trial market, and focus group. They deployed AUR purchasable BPO's in this build (and yes, I bought two of them I am ashamed), and they have also deployed other multiple AUR forcused features such as this. It is a fine line from what they originally said. |
Anuliadon Gortusk
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have been playing console online games since the early days of ps2 every console game online that had comms was free even in the lobby or loading stages. Like others have said i would rather pay 40 dollars or even 60 once and just have everything, i'm not inclined to play a "free to play" game when something as crucial as comms requires money i mean they are basically making anyone which wants to play in a corp pay 4.50 a month and that is ridiculous. |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Anuliadon Gortusk wrote:I have been playing console online games since the early days of ps2 every console game online that had comms was free even in the lobby or loading stages. Like others have said i would rather pay 40 dollars or even 60 once and just have everything, i'm not inclined to play a "free to play" game when something as crucial as comms requires money i mean they are basically making anyone which wants to play in a corp pay 4.50 a month and that is ridiculous.
Well to be frank you do have free in-battle team chat. If you have voice chat [on], and for those of you with push-to-talk [on] you have to press left on your d-pad (directional pad). Personally I turned off my press to talk feature. Found it annoying. You literally have to stop moving to talk? Lame. Anyway you have free group chat for your squad and in-battle chat for team and squad. As far as I know.
The whole universal chat thingy here is confusing though, and a bit annoying. As pointed out though we're not happy with it. Even, Iron Wolf Saber, stated he was not particularly happy. As for playing online console games I have been there since the earliest SOCOM days on the PlayStation2, and enjoyed the XBL for the first Xbox too. Halo2 was fun. |
LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS
74
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Posted - 2012.08.15 04:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
Anuliadon Gortusk wrote:I have been playing console online games since the early days of ps2 every console game online that had comms was free even in the lobby or loading stages. Like others have said i would rather pay 40 dollars or even 60 once and just have everything, i'm not inclined to play a "free to play" game when something as crucial as comms requires money i mean they are basically making anyone which wants to play in a corp pay 4.50 a month and that is ridiculous.
Well said! |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sniper no Sniping wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Boksoon wrote:A serious corp will have it's own 3rd party VOIP service. Dunno most corps I've rolled with consider 3rd party VOIPs a liability and waste of money. Why are you using the ones that cost money, Use things like C3 and stuff that are free to us
C3 is a vivox product last time I checked. the same guys who power eve and dust 514 voice http://www.vivox.com/gaming-solutions/download-c3.html
Vivox.com wrote:About Vivox VivoxGÇÖs VoiceEverywhereGäó enables social communications anytime, anywhere, and on any device. We provide communication applications for social experiences where consumers interact on the web, on their mobile devices, or within gaming or social networking environments. More than 70 million users in 180+ countries exchange more than three billion voice minutes each month across the Vivox Network. Our social communications applications are delivered directly to consumers and with partners such as T-Mobile, CCP Games, Linden Labs, Nexon, Sony Online Entertainment, Wargaming.net and others. For more information, visit www.vivox.com or check us out on Twitter or Facebook.
Also while you as an end user isnt paying for C3 somone else is. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
808
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Posted - 2012.08.15 04:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS wrote:Anuliadon Gortusk wrote:I have been playing console online games since the early days of ps2 every console game online that had comms was free even in the lobby or loading stages. Like others have said i would rather pay 40 dollars or even 60 once and just have everything, i'm not inclined to play a "free to play" game when something as crucial as comms requires money i mean they are basically making anyone which wants to play in a corp pay 4.50 a month and that is ridiculous. Well said!
while he has a good point, Dust is going to be around longer than a $60 dollar title and the initial gains form a one time purchase will eventually run out. You can't make them buy the game again, can you?
Understand the longevity this game is seeking and how the business models work.
not defending UVT tho. |
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