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Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
   |
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP, is this game going to cater the eve players or fps players?
if its the first, good job now just port it to pc and we are good.
If its the second i got bad news for you...
Discuss.
...And of course back up your argument. |
Gelan Corbaine
BetaMax.
103
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
What this again ?  |
Arborius Veredus
31
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Posted - 2012.08.11 21:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
What, exactly, does this thread accomplish? Other than trying to start yet another pointless flame war, I mean.
You realize this game is in beta, correct? And that a lot of the game's current mechanics will be altered before release? Of course it's not a perfectly balanced AAA game at the moment, it's not finished yet. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have a good reply to this!
This game is designed to cater to the Dust 514 player base.
There, honest answer with no flames attached.  |
pjster long
Doomheim
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
I thought that the question would be "why so serious" !!! that would have been funny... :) |
Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arborius Veredus wrote:What, exactly, does this thread accomplish? Other than trying to start yet another pointless flame war, I mean.
You realize this game is in beta, correct? And that a lot of the game's current mechanics will be altered before release? Of course it's not a perfectly balanced AAA game at the moment, it's not finished yet.
Its a beta for agame that has almost no fps elements,and failed fps mechanics. So its a legitimate question who is the demographic for this game? Some EVE people who want to play something slightly different? or a new fps audience?
As how I see it, this has as much as fps as twisted metal has racing. Either CCP its doing the beta backwards or they need to advertise this game differently
It does have something pro flaming,and all the whining and fanboy wars ensue, but the question still remains. Like it or not.
For whom this game is for? |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Surtur Reaperson wrote:Arborius Veredus wrote:What, exactly, does this thread accomplish? Other than trying to start yet another pointless flame war, I mean.
You realize this game is in beta, correct? And that a lot of the game's current mechanics will be altered before release? Of course it's not a perfectly balanced AAA game at the moment, it's not finished yet. Its a beta for agame that has almost no fps elements,and failed fps mechanics. So its a legitimate question who is the demographic for this game? Some EVE people who want to play something slightly different? or a new fps audience? As how I see it, this has as much as fps as twisted metal has racing. Either CCP its doing the beta backwards or they are advertising something that its not the real product. It does have something pro flaming but the question still remains. Like it or not.
What, if I may ask, is lacking in your opinion? What makes Dust not a FPS for you? |
Iceyburnz
316
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Surtur Reaperson wrote:CCP, is this game going to cater the eve players or fps players?
if its the first, good job now just port it to pc and we are good.
If its the second i got bad news for you...
Discuss.
...And of course back up your argument.
Its not going to cater to anyone, it will be as CCP designs it, the people who like it will stick around and tell people how great it is.
The one that don't will leave and find another game to play obsessively yet complain how much the hate it on that games forums .
I really like this emote right now sort of sums up 100% of the negative posts in this forum. |
Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
The fact that pretty much in order to win, you dont spend that much time actually shooting in first person, you just sit in a tank and voila, and when you do are on your own 2 feet shooting the mechanics feel like this was an alpha.
Thats the short of it. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Surtur Reaperson wrote:The fact that pretty much in order to win, you dont spend that much time actually shooting in first person, you just sit in a tank and voila, and when you do are on your won 2 feet shooting the mechanics feel like this was an alpha.
Thats the short of it.
FPS doesn't mean "on foot", it just means First Person Shooter. Well, I view the game from first person and I shoot. It's an FPS.
As for vehicles, most shooters (FPS and TPS) these days have vehicles. It's pretty much only CoD that doesn't.
About the game mechanics, it is basically an alpha. That's true. This is an internal beta version meant to help the devs balance weapons and styles. This is by far not even close to the finished product.
So if things feel "off", good. We're supposed to provide feedback on what exactly feels "off" to us. |
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Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iceyburnz wrote:Its not going to cater to anyone, it will be as CCP designs it, the people who like it will stick around and tell people how great it is. The one that don't will leave and find another game to play obsessively yet complain how much the hate it on that games forums . I really like this emote right now sort of sums up 100% of the negative posts in this forum.
3 Questions.
If so why doest CCP tries to "sell" this game for something that it is not?
What happens if the minority are the ones who end up playing and the vast mayority leave? What would that mean to the game? |
Iceyburnz
316
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:[quote=Surtur Reaperson]
About the game mechanics, it is basically an alpha. That's true. This is an internal beta version meant to help the devs balance weapons and styles. This is by far not even close to the finished product.
So if things feel "off", good. We're supposed to provide feedback on what exactly feels "off" to us.
Well, that and the game will never be "finished", its going to be supported and iterated on along with eve. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
I am an FPS player, and I feel like this game is catering to me for the most part, more than most FPS actually. I love the complexity, I love the accurate hipfire, I love the low bullet damage. |
Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:
FPS doesn't mean "on foot", it just means First Person Shooter. Well, I view the game from first person and I shoot. It's an FPS.
As for vehicles, most shooters (FPS and TPS) these days have vehicles. It's pretty much only CoD that doesn't.
About the game mechanics, it is basically an alpha. That's true. This is an internal beta version meant to help the devs balance weapons and styles. This is by far not even close to the finished product.
So if things feel "off", good. We're supposed to provide feedback on what exactly feels "off" to us.
1) Tbqh vehicles are right now on 3rd person except turrets. But still the main point of a fps its that you are able to shoot people on foot with guns, at least its what its implied in any FPS.
I know its a beta i had done testing toplenty pc gamebetas,but hell even for betastandars the mechanics are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind,and considering the expected deadline for the game I think this one its not gnna make it, either they extend the beta or release a half assed game.Its a lot of ground to cover and especially for the ambitious of the proyect. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Surtur Reaperson wrote:If so why doest CCP tries to "sell" this game for something that it is not?
They are selling it as a FPS. That's what it is. They are also selling it by the virtue of EVE integration, it is also that.
Nothing they have stated is not being fully met.
Surtur Reaperson wrote:What happens if the minority are the ones who end up playing and the vast mayority leave?
Time will tell. Dust will be ever changing. It might be CoD 6 in 2 years, who knows.
Surtur Reaperson wrote:What would that mean to the game?
It would mean that CCP believe in the game's vision. |
Iceyburnz
316
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 22:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:Surtur Reaperson wrote:[ that don't will leave and find another game to play obsessively yet complain how much the hate it on that games forums . I really like this emote right now sort of sums up 100% of the negative posts in this forum. 3 Questions. If so why doest CCP tries to "sell" this game for something that it is not? What happens if the minority are the ones who end up playing and the vast mayority leave? What would that mean to the game?
I don't believe CCP are trying to sell anything. The game is free.
CCP are doing what they did with eve. let word of mouth and the game experience do the advertising. This won't happen in beta.
A lot of the sky are falling crowd don't realised we are playing through historical builds that are probably years old.
If you leave right now, it won't matter, because in 6 months they'll be a **** tonne of new stuff to play with, and you'll be able to come back because its free to download and play.
Don't listen to the poison on the forums. Its all hot air. The biggest whiners are some of the highest scorers on the leader board. They play a damn lot. Its pretty weird actually. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 22:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mmmmmmm troll bait.
Nonomnom |
Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 22:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
I was reffering to adevertising the game but you catched the drift. And yes they dosell the micro transactions.
On the other point, yes 6 months, thats 6 builds. And I do think they will add a lot of thing to the game by then but..... thats not a good thing at least not with this pacing,why? Yeah plenty of things, but glitchy or poorly implemented with poor mechanics, sorta like sykirn or new vegas.
If most people leave they might consider returning but wouldnt feel comftable with the game,specially if things dont do/work as intended and they would stick with what they know and of course if said fps its 70% vehicle game, the only thing that I see going for dust its that its free toplay....and that goes so far.
I actually know why and have a similar mindset since the ones who "whine" but have compelling arguments are the people who care but since the mayority of the current population its so " you are coming to my universe I am entitled over you"t they get frustrated but at the same time want the game to do good.
However... there its a breaking point when said person just goes "you know what,? **** it" and i see this scenario increasing really REALLY fast, and the most alarming part of it its that most of them are the ones who took a gamble at new eden in other words "fps people" who are ouside of new eden which means if this keep happening this game will be less fps oriented since well... they are less fps people. Thats bad forthe game since it should be the core of dust.
Tony Calif wrote:Mmmmmmm troll bait.
Nonomnom
Would be fun some flame wars but they are so many chioces to pick. |
Shadoe Wolf
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 22:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Surtur Reaperson wrote:
1) Tbqh vehicles are right now on 3rd person except turrets.
Just to comment on this. You can switch to first person in vehicles by pressing R3. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 22:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
First major expansion is in 6 months after launch.
We're likely to get fix i/tune itt patches every month after launch even for the expansions.
Expansions will be free and required thus everyone gets showered in new toys and places to go without getting red roped off.
What is bad is the FPS players are not sharing very extremly detailed things that makes this not a good core FPS game.
For example I swear the HMG animation doesnt match with acutal reload indicators.
I have hundreds of complaints about everything not involving shooting but I am just causal FPS player I wouldn't know what felt wrong in a shooter game when it came down to certain mechanics.
Seriously if you guys want to swing this more towards an FPS experince game you need to start sharing your bad experinces as to why you think its not a good shooter.
We seriously dont need magic unicorns and other weird things your fellow FPS players been suggesting. We need acutal input as like 'remote demolitions' shouldnt be used as grenades is a good start. We also dont want the 'you must use this for this function only' sort of thinking either we want to reward people who master certain things to be a bit 'unconventional.
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Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 23:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:First major expansion is in 6 months after launch.
We're likely to get fix i/tune itt patches every month after launch even for the expansions.
Expansions will be free and required thus everyone gets showered in new toys and places to go without getting red roped off.
What is bad is the FPS players are not sharing very extremly detailed things that makes this not a good core FPS game.
For example I swear the HMG animation doesnt match with acutal reload indicators.
I have hundreds of complaints about everything not involving shooting but I am just causal FPS player I wouldn't know what felt wrong in a shooter game when it came down to certain mechanics.
Seriously if you guys want to swing this more towards an FPS experince game you need to start sharing your bad experinces as to why you think its not a good shooter.
We seriously dont need magic unicorns and other weird things your fellow FPS players been suggesting. We need acutal input as like 'remote demolitions' shouldnt be used as grenades is a good start. We also dont want the 'you must use this for this function only' sort of thinking either we want to reward people who master certain things to be a bit 'unconventional.
Ok here goes the raw input of mine and its awfully a lot alike what has being said, but here goes.
Anyone should be able to kill anyone give the oportunity in other words lvl 1 militia dude being able to take out proto guy, using the whole clip, while the proto needs 2 builets but killable. Also buffing the default knife at bit and make it more practical would help.
The recovery rates are way off. Shields, too fast, armor too slow.
Bullet tracking and impact, do I need to say more?
Bullets might slow you a bit they sure as hell dont mess with your camera (upcoming patch), you just dont do that.
Self repairing with tool should stay, slower rate, ok seems fair.
Limit vehicle numbers, or just nerf them by a 30% all across the board.
A sound to let you know when you land a headshot.
Fix the inyerctor animation so that rezing people up shouldnt kill you in the process. Or **** up all the animations.
The rate of the game itself should be faster, no twitch fast just a bit faster.
Serious limitations to where you can call vehicles like specific areas from where you only can call em.
Randomized spawn points within the objective/facility.
That the game should revolve primarly on infantry, vehicles are ok but they should not be the center of the show.
More cover spots, i mean dude if this maps were more linear it would had been in FF13.
And those just on top of my head, but must important MAKE THE GAME LOOK LESS LIKE A CHORE AND BE MORE you ready for this...? FUN.
Its a videogame for christ sake. And all of this point had been already buried by an avalanche of "adapt or die hurrr" or "go back to cod" or "but its on the eve lore". And get that most people who are from the fps market dont really give two didily ***** about the lore or the eve universe, at least not at first. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 00:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Surtur Reaperson wrote:
Ok here goes the raw input of mine and its awfully a lot alike what has being said, but here goes.
Anyone should be able to kill anyone give the oportunity in other words lvl 1 militia dude being able to take out proto guy, using the whole clip, while the proto needs 2 builets but killable. Also buffing the default knife at bit and make it more practical would help.
The recovery rates are way off. Shields, too fast, armor too slow.
Bullet tracking and impact, do I need to say more?
Bullets might slow you a bit they sure as hell dont mess with your camera (upcoming patch), you just dont do that.
Self repairing with tool should stay, slower rate, ok seems fair.
Limit vehicle numbers, opr just nerf them by a 30% all across the board.
A sound to let you know when you land a headshot.
Fix the inyerctor animation so that rezing people up shouldnt kill you un the process.
The rate of the game itself should be faster, no twitch fast just a bit faster.
Serious limitations to where you can call vehicles like specific areas from where you only can call em.
randomized spawn point within the area.
That the game should revolve primarly on infantry, vehicles are ok but they should not be the center of the show.
More cover spots, i mean dude if this maps were more linear they would had been in FF13.
And those just on top of my head, but must important MAKE THE GAME LOOK LESS LIKE A CHORE AND BE MORE you ready for this...? FUN.
Its a videogame for christ sake. And all of this point had been already buried by an avalanche of "adapt or die hurrr" or "go back to cod" or "but its on the eve lore". And get that most people who are from the fps market dont really give two ***** about the lore or the eve universe, at least not at first.
In order...
I can on average kill 2 people per clip with my milita fit however thats just me, kills do include protos. I just dont survive protos that easily though.
Recovery rate is set by the universe and also its for balances as well. Armor has always been traditionally slow to recover but can take more serious punishment than shield ever can. Shields are flismy but make up for it for rapid recovery. Armor unfourutnatley makes you go slower and shields makes you much easier to spot both electronically and to damage systems porbably in the future. This will be made more obvious when they start adding armor and shield damage modifiers to weapons, For example Scrambler pistols TEAR though shields like they're nothing but soon as they hit armor its not that effective anymore. Not every faction can or likes to armor tank, and not every faction likes to shield tank.
Hit detection is a well known issue its getting tuned better every patch.
You're talking about a high impact peice of material shoving several thousand foot pounds of force into a tiny spot. When your armor or shields has to disperse that force to be clone survivable something has to give or something is going to explode. You try running full speed in full ballistic armor and see how well you can continue to run when getting peppered down even by low caliber ammo. Most people have a hard time standing up after taking a shot with the vest on.
Self Repair tool encourages too much lone wolfing also allows for logistics that wear all plates on the bottom and use thier repair tool to outsurvive anything trying to kill them.
Vehicle numbers are getting nerfed in multiple ways, the build was making sure they where well tested out. in dynamics and sterring another things. Just know that milita vehicles (cept the LAV) are all getting upgraced to non milita types (pay per loss) and that vehicle prices are going up across the board, such as muraders beign 1.2 million just for the hull. Total est end cost of a murader 3 million isk after fitted. In the future you wouldnt be able to call a vehicle wihtout sufficent warpoints, poor performing squads will not have as many vehicles.
I rather have an additional few points for headshotting than a noise.
Getting fixed see patch notes.
I think pacing is just right, I play a fat suit Av and assault trooper two of the slowest suits.
I disagree about vehicle call in location, calling it in the wrong spot allows for risk taking, For example calling it on a rooftop when you are nearby the enemy defenses is certainly risky move that may net you a loss of a drop ship with price increases pilots will want to be a bit smarter about deployments. In the future even the RDVs are going to cost money every time you lose one. Combine this with earlier mentioned nerfs and price jacking youll see this being less abused. Also I dont want to make more camping spots than I have too.
As an anti-vehicle specialist I make sure the games I'm in stay infantry focused. This is part of that 'adapting' though in my cause you can say 'forced evolution'.
I agree with more cover hopefully map terrain generator will be giving the idea to do so.
As for the last bit, you should probably pay attention to eve lore a little bit considering eve players do write alot of it via actions they made. For example you're part of eve lore right now when you realize it or not empires throwing tonns of isk at this immortal soldier technology and we're all testing the crud out for them before they unleash us on the unsuspecting population. Having immortal soldiers appear out of nowhere wouldnt help eve lore a single bit. Dont worry soon enough it will be dust 514 getting its own lore added onto and enhanced by players and interaction with eve. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 00:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
I have a legitimate answer to your question. The game will cater to both FPS console players and Eve players at the same time. It doesn't even stop there. It will also cater to grinders, casuals, hardcores, 10-minute match folks, etc.
CCP said that during Fanfest 2012 as well as during the E3 press conference. |
Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 01:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
See we have a problem right off the bat, trying to racionalize everything, already hampering the proposal of ideas.
Im just telling you the raw components that its needed ask counter strike if they became the powerhouse that they still are, by being realistic. realism its nice but its more as a feature than a key component, for fucks sake its a sci-fi shooter IN SPACE. Its ok to have a margin of Do's and Do Not's, but if you want to be realistic a sci-fi game its the last place to expect it. But Ill play along.
Yes right of now but something tells me that as the game gets more developed, the ability to achieve it would becomes less and less possible.
Why should the recovery rate be dictated by "the universe" if anything sould be dictated by the game. (not eve lore).
They are delaying an awful lot with hit detection, and i also included tracking, you know just to get a better clue from where are you fired upon.
Unecesary realism, point in case unreal tournament.
Increasing the pg/cpu should hamper that behaivor while aiding to pick logi.
Just to be clear, vehicles should be an aid to infantry forces, not THE main force. Throwing it out there just in case.
The reason for the sound its for you to know if you are hitting the head of the target, in other words. In the current build you cant really tell if you are hitting the body or the head outside of the damage done. If im hitting you on the head the game should let me know. its just a given.
Its not that much that pacing need just like a 5% more movespeed on all souits but scout.... let them have 1
What im meaning with this one its the the vehicles should be called in on ground level, not rooftops not towers GROUND level would make map generation easier to balance and drivers would have to plan it out. Preferably on the initial spawn and areas surrounding an objective.
Yes, it should but there its a notable disproporsion in combat, while the game should be 50/50 vehicle/infantry right now we are stting on a 80/20.
Here is the thing, lore storywise its cool, but when you start squashing elements just to make it "fit the lore" or "realistic according to eve" its where this game is going to the crapper, why? two reasons.
Just cause a game is realistc it doesnt mean its good. Look at the best shooter games, wolfenstein, doom, socom 1 and 2, counter strike or unreal tournament. Was doom realistic? No. was a great game? Hell yeah. The most realistic of those would be socom en even they didnt pushed too much on realistic phisics.
And most importantly, realism can be achieved in a game sucessfully, BUT after the mechanics are set. Hence why im telling you that ccp seems to be doing the beta backwards, and its not working well.
Also, would it be too difficult to get a decent minimap.... or at least less arhchaic?
Maken Tosch wrote:I have a legitimate answer to your question. The game will cater to both FPS console players and Eve players at the same time. It doesn't even stop there. It will also cater to grinders, casuals, hardcores, 10-minute match folks, etc.
CCP said that during Fanfest 2012 as well as during the E3 press conference.
Even thou their actions seem to speak otherwise... beta protip, dont take the dev's word by the book... you end up dissapointed, wherever ccp, valve, blizzard, s2 or anyone. |
Elrick Mercer
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 01:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Obvious answer is obvious EVE all the way. Maybe Sony will wise up and bring Planetside 2 to console because this has fail all over it! |
Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 02:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
If they get their priorities straight and their **** together this might be saved.... might |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 03:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ill continue to play, just trying to help you understand some things and agreeing with your complaints on some points
Shields are capacitor based field emissions the onboard reactor can only charge that battery so much at a time but at least it can
Our armors are nanite forged in the first place the individual plates are so intricate that simply throwing a solid peice of metal over it and bolting it down won't work, patches have to be 'grown' in a semi organic fashion. Like I said armor is more capable of taking a beating overall vs shields which has a massive resistance hole to most energy based weapons. Also its assumed our armor has components in it as well, so those have to be repaired to keep the suit in order, so its not just fixing armor its fixing everything like the shield generator. (in eve this would be the hull instead)
Game play wise its to encourage teamwork and give the 'medic' a role in repairing other soldiers and vehicles and once again the balance cost of using armor vs using shields. Remote armor repairs are much more effective as are remote shield transfers because of weapons grade energy transfers being used instead
Pros for using armor Armor takes damage better, can stack HP points better,
Cons for using armor, slows down the user significantly, recovers slowly if at all
Pros for shields - Self Heals, quick to recharge, recovers much faster
Cons for shields - Very loud on sensors making it easy to spot, doesnt take damage as well as armor can
As for why its taking so long is the approval process from sony and QA, they are really trying to avoid shipping a patch out that blows up the ps3 for example. QA has a nice habbit in breaking the game in ways we can barely imagine. In eve they managed to send a nomrally immovable station flying faster than the speed of light when they started messing with mass effecting collisions which to this day is still not implimented because of it. However from talks with devs on IRC they are working thier best to fix this. Builds are averaging 1.5 months
As for the indicators thats something you could have specifically complained/left feedback about not being effective enough. I dont like how it indicates getting shot by friendlies for no damage (though I would like it when they turn FF on in null)
Increasing CPU and PG hurts not just logis but almost every suit possible that wants to try to armor tank (if it can) its one of those 'brute' force fixes a developer would like to avoid as it nerfs everything
As for the vehicles I can see them being much less of a problem next build in terms of numbers. Also options to counter vehicles are not all available yet. EMP, ECM, Ewar, Capacitor Drains, Tracking Disruptors a whole slew of more tools. Also Homing AV grenades are going to be deadly efficent against vehicles as those things hit a hell lot harder than a forge gun just getting them to work has always been an issue in current build as they go though the floor
Muraders where originally designed to destroy base defenses and take the counter fire from said defenses. It would not suprise me if they made alot of facilites much harder to kill soon. This is considered an infantry support role as some bases defenses should (but currently dont) tear folks up out in the open
I won't argue against the sound, but sound design imo needs improvment I oftenly confuse dropship and RDV noises with the music
As for speed they got modules for that and skill book :P
As for roof top restrictions I think it may complicate things in the future when we have bridges or multiple floor buildings you can have enitre tank battles inside of. Just right now I would rather put something to discourage getting on top of the comm towers like a radiation hazard. That way its tied into the envionrment and not to 'imaginary rules' or have it like collasp though the roof things
This is something we need to wait and watch for especially with the upcomming price increases. But its also why I love being AV. Tank Damaged +Tank destroyed +Kill +Kill +Kill but yes hopefully in the larger maps with more people there wouldnt be so many vehicles compound this with the cost and potential losses and people would be careful to deploy. I can lose a match but win the wallet war, In the newer prices I caused about 20,000,000 isk of damage once at the cost of 175,000 in one match
Trust me the vehicles are getting oh so much more expensive and blowing them up will cost the enemeis so much more isk in losses
Next off Eve is inspired by reality but they NEVER use it for balancing, dust 514 should be the same way this is the future after all 15k years with two dark ages in another time where we have stars older than the universe (a long time complained about wtf?) for example missiles and rockets, rockets in eve are just dumb missiles they can still track targets just dont blow up smartly. The word I'm looking for is Reasonable. Why should shields be just as effective in stopping a bullet as armor? Shields can easily twist the bullet off optimal projectory preventing breaking though the shields and hitting hte armor, Armor would do much less to stop a microwarhead penetrator. Where as energy weapons destablize the capacitor so much the entire energy barrier fluxates. Where as armor sucks up that energy shot and vents it out as heat where approprate
As for the lore question we dont try to use 'lore' as an excuse balance in eve alot, but there is still the 'universe' setting to consider. One example would be oh say making a halo game, Lets make an RTS but instead of spartans warthogs and scorpion tanks we throw in knights with lances, wizards and orcs
Let me put it this way, random dust 514 player gets into dust 514 enjoys it, and wants to know more about eve online, he goes into eve online and expects several things, Such as gold plated amarrians using lasers, heavy armor and killing everything that gets in thier way of thier god |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 04:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Surtur Reaperson wrote:If they get their priorities straight and their **** together this might be saved.... might
Priority is to get all the launch slated features working first.
This includes but not just limited to.
Well polished gun play where guns and shooting is smooth enjoyable and comparable to any other shooter out there the area we're most FPSers are complaining about but not leaving the feedback desperately needed.
Imperfect Balance system where champion a defeats champion b who defeats champion c and under the right circumstances the order is reversable. All in all its to encourage people to contantly counter the new flavor of the week with one of othier own flavors of 'next' week.
Current example Vehicles at the start of E3 build where so numerous it wasnt funny. It quickly turned into alot of people dumping thier million SP points into Anti-vehicle efforts. Now you have dozesn of players with swarm launchers and forge guns to the point people are complainig about nerfing both of them. As the number of AV increases the response was strong high mobile Anti-infantry which is now the current trend growing and able to get to any AV quickly to deal with the threat to thier tank buddies.
Then finally Factional Warfare. The conquest lite system in which we will begin testing the foundations of next build as we leave battlemoon to begin testing in an expanded area of operation.
In the future there are many more plans in the first two three expansions and beyond
Factional Symetry which is where your shield and armor argument starts to lose as you need varainces in races between each of them for example amarrian assault suits will be slowest of all assault suits but hardest armor and hardest to kill likely. Where as the quick agile minmatar must use shield tank in order to maintain thier speeds as armor only slows them down. Having four suits in the same class with the same stats and slots isnt making each faction unique.
More guns such as the Caldari Gauss Rifle (caldari assault), More vehicles(MTAC, mechanized torso, articulated chassis), more suits (command and pilot suits), more skills, more planets(barren, ice, oceanic, gas, storm, plasma, magma) more ways to play the game outside of shooting (crafting, harvesting, sim-city basic managmeent of conquered territories, empire control, arenas). Then power to the players, giving them the reigns on determing dust 514s future. All these items you buy on the market will one day be sold you by a player, and thay may just **** you off to try to ruin his day by declaring war on him and blowing up his gun factory.
This game will really never ever leave beta state and to be honest just they will get to launch day and no more SP stats resets while they continue to increase the number of features in dust 514 exptentially.
Null sec warfare where players are given the tools to conquer thier own systems by themselves. They pay for thier warbarges, they pay for thier MCCs, they pay for thier wars, they pay for thier territories in blood isk and time.
NPC vs missions such as a horde mode against rogue drones a nasty robotic infestation in eve online going planetside. Possible future interations of other not so freindly factions such as Sansha nation, which are more akin with the borg.
Just bleh. there is alot but you're right we need to focus on game play and gun play, this is where FPSers opinions are needed.
Right now there just is a variety of suggestions being put in that is just not reasonable, hell we have a guy in features asking for magic... Other are asking for things like quick scoping and some very unreasonable requests that over caters to thier game play style in skeweing numbers to 100 to 4 krd per match.
Like you pointed out the hit indicator needs help, you can open a thread about that and get some very reasonable responses to that instead of "go back to COD" lines which I think you ran into one to many of. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 09:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Surtur Reaperson wrote:CCP, is this game going to cater the eve players or fps players?
if its the first, good job now just port it to pc and we are good.
If its the second i got bad news for you...
Discuss.
...And of course back up your argument.
I'm thinking it's going to cater to a hybrid kind of player.
As far as EVE vs. FPS players CCP wants some EVE players playing and invested in DUST, and they also want to make sure they're not making something that goes against the fabric of New Eden. I think that's why the EVE players are here, as well as to test the EVE-like parts of the game.
They are also great for getting new immigrants to New Eden up to speed - CCP knows how hard it is to explain EVE to peeps who haven't lived and died in New Eden.
As far as the FPS players go, I think CCP are listening to them very closely, and will make every effort to address their concerns so long as it doesn't sabotage what they are trying to achieve. In terms of being able to incorporate player feedback into development cycles, it's really going to be the NEXT 2 patches that will tell us how closely CCP is listening and who they're listening to.
But in the end, a DUST player isn't going to be a typical FPS player, but will have FPS skills that many EVE players don't. My opinion is we haven't even SEEN the game yet, what we've been playing and testing is just the face of the game. The secret heart of the game isn't an FPS at all, it's a social engine meant to drive war, economics and drama in New Eden.
DUST 514 is a machine built to grow a social universe, believe it or not.
I think that in hisec CCP will make sure FPS players feel comfortable. But if those FPS players decide they like DUST 514 and want to move on to the deeper parts of the game they will find it necessary(and hopefully enjoyable) to mutate themselves into a whole 'nother kind of animal. They will be social gamers, they will choose adapatability over ideology, they will enjoy complex, multi-layered gamplay, and they will enjoy an FPS playstyle.
I think that in the end, CCP is building a home for a new genre of player. |
Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 11:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
I like this, seems to be the 2 dies of the apple. Btw my point of view was purely based on gamplay balance in that context that you asked "what does make a fps good?" so I pointed out what was more likely needed to have the fps structure that everyone is clamoring for, in a very blunt and direct fashion. So feedback wise I stated the "what"s that need to be adressed to improve the game
However your theorycrafting on the armor vs shield situation does bring up a good perspective on the "why" or "why not"some of them are arguable. I do still think that armor repairs should be a tad buffed, but now on smaller scale (gameplay wise) lets say that from 3% armor repair/second to.... lets say 5.5% before I was thinking of doubling the rate but now i see it too extreme
Howerver I still also retain that shield regen should be reduced by at least 5% to 7% tops in other words from 30% to 25%-22%. Why? To actually give some real use out of the shield emmiters. And toeven out with the armor minboost if it would happen.
I totally forgot about the speed modules, you are right.
More AV goodness ont he way, thats nice. But for the sake of the beta I do think that ccp should put vehicles on the back seat for a while.
I like this whole discussion since its pretty easy for ccp to see, in my posts, whats needed, in yours, whats plausible.
Oh,bullet tracking would be the smoke tail theat shows when you shoot in most fps, the more you know.
But my mayor gripe here still lies, and its that for a good beta you try to follow this steps: mechanics -----> Network stability----> balance----> feedback ---->concept/lore /creative process ----> new stuff-----> balance new stuff ----->feedback/ balance/ new stuff cycle ----> release ---->patching (feedback /balance /new stuff cycle)
Seems CCP are doing the process skipping steps and thats not smart, especially for a beta AAA game |
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