DUST Search - Serious question

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

First major expansion is in 6 months after launch.
We're likely to get fix i/tune itt patches every month after launch even for the expansions.
Expansions will be free and required thus everyone gets showered in new toys and places to go without getting red roped off.
What is bad is the FPS players are not sharing very extremly detailed things that makes this not a good core FPS game.

For example I swear the HMG animation doesnt match with acutal reload indicators.

I have hundreds of complaints about everything not involving shooting but I am just causal FPS player I wouldn't know what felt wrong in a shooter game when it came down to certain mechanics.

Seriously if you guys want to swing this more towards an FPS experince game you need to start sharing your bad experinces as to why you think its not a good shooter.

We seriously dont need magic unicorns and other weird things your fellow FPS players been suggesting. We need acutal input as like 'remote demolitions' shouldnt be used as grenades is a good start. We also dont want the 'you must use this for this function only' sort of thinking either we want to reward people who master certain things to be a bit 'unconventional.


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Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.11 21:12:00 - [1] - Quote CCP, is this game going to cater the eve players or fps players? if its the first, good job now just port it to pc and we are good. If its the second i got bad news for you... Discuss. ...And of course back up your argument.
Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.11 21:41:00 - [2] - Quote Arborius Veredus wrote: What, exactly, does this thread accomplish? Other than trying to start yet another pointless flame war, I mean. You realize this game is in beta, correct? And that a lot of the game's current mechanics will be altered before release? Of course it's not a perfectly balanced AAA game at the moment, it's not finished yet. Its a beta for agame that has almost no fps elements,and failed fps mechanics. So its a legitimate question who is the demographic for this game? Some EVE people who want to play something slightly different? or a new fps audience? As how I see it, this has as much as fps as twisted metal has racing. Either CCP its doing the beta backwards or they need to advertise this game differently It does have something pro flaming,and all the whining and fanboy wars ensue, but the question still remains. Like it or not. For whom this game is for?
Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.11 21:45:00 - [3] - Quote The fact that pretty much in order to win, you dont spend that much time actually shooting in first person, you just sit in a tank and voila, and when you do are on your own 2 feet shooting the mechanics feel like this was an alpha. Thats the short of it.
Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.11 21:50:00 - [4] - Quote Iceyburnz wrote: Its not going to cater to anyone, it will be as CCP designs it, the people who like it will stick around and tell people how great it is. The one that don't will leave and find another game to play obsessively yet complain how much the hate it on that games forums . I really like this emote right now sort of sums up 100% of the negative posts in this forum. 3 Questions. If so why doest CCP tries to "sell" this game for something that it is not? What happens if the minority are the ones who end up playing and the vast mayority leave? What would that mean to the game?
Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.11 21:57:00 - [5] - Quote Grit Breather wrote: FPS doesn't mean "on foot", it just means First Person Shooter. Well, I view the game from first person and I shoot. It's an FPS. As for vehicles, most shooters (FPS and TPS) these days have vehicles. It's pretty much only CoD that doesn't. About the game mechanics, it is basically an alpha. That's true. This is an internal beta version meant to help the devs balance weapons and styles. This is by far not even close to the finished product. So if things feel "off", good. We're supposed to provide feedback on what exactly feels "off" to us. 1) Tbqh vehicles are right now on 3rd person except turrets. But still the main point of a fps its that you are able to shoot people on foot with guns, at least its what its implied in any FPS. I know its a beta i had done testing toplenty pc gamebetas,but hell even for betastandars the mechanics are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind,and considering the expected deadline for the game I think this one its not gnna make it, either they extend the beta or release a half assed game.Its a lot of ground to cover and especially for the ambitious of the proyect.
Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.11 22:26:00 - [6] - Quote I was reffering to adevertising the game but you catched the drift. And yes they dosell the micro transactions. On the other point, yes 6 months, thats 6 builds. And I do think they will add a lot of thing to the game by then but..... thats not a good thing at least not with this pacing,why? Yeah plenty of things, but glitchy or poorly implemented with poor mechanics, sorta like sykirn or new vegas. If most people leave they might consider returning but wouldnt feel comftable with the game,specially if things dont do/work as intended and they would stick with what they know and of course if said fps its 70% vehicle game, the only thing that I see going for dust its that its free toplay....and that goes so far. I actually know why and have a similar mindset since the ones who "whine" but have compelling arguments are the people who care but since the mayority of the current population its so " you are coming to my universe I am entitled over you"t they get frustrated but at the same time want the game to do good. However... there its a breaking point when said person just goes "you know what,? ** it" and i see this scenario increasing really REALLY fast, and the most alarming part of it its that most of them are the ones who took a gamble at new eden in other words "fps people" who are ouside of new eden which means if this keep happening this game will be less fps oriented since well... they are less fps people. Thats bad forthe game since it should be the core of dust. Tony Calif wrote:** Mmmmmmm troll bait. Nonomnom Would be fun some flame wars but they are so many chioces to pick.
Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.11 23:10:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: First major expansion is in 6 months after launch. We're likely to get fix i/tune itt patches every month after launch even for the expansions. Expansions will be free and required thus everyone gets showered in new toys and places to go without getting red roped off. What is bad is the FPS players are not sharing very extremly detailed things that makes this not a good core FPS game. For example I swear the HMG animation doesnt match with acutal reload indicators. I have hundreds of complaints about everything not involving shooting but I am just causal FPS player I wouldn't know what felt wrong in a shooter game when it came down to certain mechanics. Seriously if you guys want to swing this more towards an FPS experince game you need to start sharing your bad experinces as to why you think its not a good shooter. We seriously dont need magic unicorns and other weird things your fellow FPS players been suggesting. We need acutal input as like 'remote demolitions' shouldnt be used as grenades is a good start. We also dont want the 'you must use this for this function only' sort of thinking either we want to reward people who master certain things to be a bit 'unconventional. Ok here goes the raw input of mine and its awfully a lot alike what has being said, but here goes. Anyone should be able to kill anyone give the oportunity in other words lvl 1 militia dude being able to take out proto guy, using the whole clip, while the proto needs 2 builets but killable. Also buffing the default knife at bit and make it more practical would help. The recovery rates are way off. Shields, too fast, armor too slow. Bullet tracking and impact, do I need to say more? Bullets might slow you a bit they sure as hell dont mess with your camera (upcoming patch), you just dont do that. Self repairing with tool should stay, slower rate, ok seems fair. Limit vehicle numbers, or just nerf them by a 30% all across the board. A sound to let you know when you land a headshot. Fix the inyerctor animation so that rezing people up shouldnt kill you in the process. Or ** up all the animations. The rate of the game itself should be faster, no twitch fast just a bit faster. Serious limitations to where you can call vehicles like specific areas from where you only can call em. Randomized spawn points within the objective/facility. That the game should revolve primarly on infantry, vehicles are ok but they should not be the center of the show. More cover spots, i mean dude if this maps were more linear it would had been in FF13. And those just on top of my head, but must important MAKE THE GAME LOOK LESS LIKE A CHORE AND BE MORE you ready for this...? FUN. Its a videogame for christ sake. And all of this point had been already buried by an avalanche of "adapt or die hurrr" or "go back to cod" or "but its on the eve lore". And get that most people who are from the fps market dont really give two didily *** about the lore or the eve universe, at least not at first.
Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.12 01:12:00 - [8] - Quote See we have a problem right off the bat, trying to racionalize everything, already hampering the proposal of ideas. Im just telling you the raw components that its needed ask counter strike if they became the powerhouse that they still are, by being realistic. realism its nice but its more as a feature than a key component, for fucks sake its a sci-fi shooter IN SPACE. Its ok to have a margin of Do's and Do Not's, but if you want to be realistic a sci-fi game its the last place to expect it. But Ill play along. Yes right of now but something tells me that as the game gets more developed, the ability to achieve it would becomes less and less possible. Why should the recovery rate be dictated by "the universe" if anything sould be dictated by the game. (not eve lore). They are delaying an awful lot with hit detection, and i also included tracking, you know just to get a better clue from where are you fired upon. Unecesary realism, point in case unreal tournament. Increasing the pg/cpu should hamper that behaivor while aiding to pick logi. Just to be clear, vehicles should be an aid to infantry forces, not THE main force. Throwing it out there just in case. The reason for the sound its for you to know if you are hitting the head of the target, in other words. In the current build you cant really tell if you are hitting the body or the head outside of the damage done. If im hitting you on the head the game should let me know. its just a given. Its not that much that pacing need just like a 5% more movespeed on all souits but scout.... let them have 1 What im meaning with this one its the the vehicles should be called in on ground level, not rooftops not towers GROUND level would make map generation easier to balance and drivers would have to plan it out. Preferably on the initial spawn and areas surrounding an objective. Yes, it should but there its a notable disproporsion in combat, while the game should be 50/50 vehicle/infantry right now we are stting on a 80/20. Here is the thing, lore storywise its cool, but when you start squashing elements just to make it "fit the lore" or "realistic according to eve" its where this game is going to the crapper, why? two reasons. Just cause a game is realistc it doesnt mean its good. Look at the best shooter games, wolfenstein, doom, socom 1 and 2, counter strike or unreal tournament. Was doom realistic? No. was a great game? Hell yeah. The most realistic of those would be socom en even they didnt pushed too much on realistic phisics. And most importantly, realism can be achieved in a game sucessfully, BUT after the mechanics are set. Hence why im telling you that ccp seems to be doing the beta backwards, and its not working well. Also, would it be too difficult to get a decent minimap.... or at least less arhchaic? Maken Tosch wrote: I have a legitimate answer to your question. The game will cater to both FPS console players and Eve players at the same time. It doesn't even stop there. It will also cater to grinders, casuals, hardcores, 10-minute match folks, etc. CCP said that during Fanfest 2012 as well as during the E3 press conference. Even thou their actions seem to speak otherwise... beta protip, dont take the dev's word by the book... you end up dissapointed, wherever ccp, valve, blizzard, s2 or anyone.
Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.12 02:00:00 - [9] - Quote If they get their priorities straight and their **** together this might be saved.... might
Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.12 11:32:00 - [10] - Quote I like this, seems to be the 2 dies of the apple. Btw my point of view was purely based on gamplay balance in that context that you asked "what does make a fps good?" so I pointed out what was more likely needed to have the fps structure that everyone is clamoring for, in a very blunt and direct fashion. So feedback wise I stated the "what"s that need to be adressed to improve the game However your theorycrafting on the armor vs shield situation does bring up a good perspective on the "why" or "why not"some of them are arguable. I do still think that armor repairs should be a tad buffed, but now on smaller scale (gameplay wise) lets say that from 3% armor repair/second to.... lets say 5.5% before I was thinking of doubling the rate but now i see it too extreme Howerver I still also retain that shield regen should be reduced by at least 5% to 7% tops in other words from 30% to 25%-22%. Why? To actually give some real use out of the shield emmiters. And toeven out with the armor minboost if it would happen. I totally forgot about the speed modules, you are right. More AV goodness ont he way, thats nice. But for the sake of the beta I do think that ccp should put vehicles on the back seat for a while. I like this whole discussion since its pretty easy for ccp to see, in my posts, whats needed, in yours, whats plausible. Oh,bullet tracking would be the smoke tail theat shows when you shoot in most fps, the more you know. But my mayor gripe here still lies, and its that for a good beta you try to follow this steps: mechanics -----> Network stability----> balance----> feedback ---->concept/lore /creative process ----> new stuff-----> balance new stuff ----->feedback/ balance/ new stuff cycle ----> release ---->patching (feedback /balance /new stuff cycle) Seems CCP are doing the process skipping steps and thats not smart, especially for a beta AAA game