DUST Search - Precursor changes (Logistics, Breach rifles, RE's, and more!)

Nova Knife wrote:

First : Logistics repair tools having 360 degree range after lock. You won't need to keep looking at someone after locking them.

This is utterly horrible. It promotes 'lazy logi' and turns logistics from something that takes effort and skill into something super easy... maybe too easy to do. If you want to repair someone you should have to take the effort to keep them in your field of view. Talking to CCP dudes it seemed like it was a change done because not enough people were using the repair tools. I highly dispute that this fix was the proper one. The issue with repair tools was simple. A logistics player simply did not get enough points compared to combat focussed players. There was no real incentive to use them, especially since there was no real reason to care about winning or team play in the beta when all everyone wants is skillpoints. If a logistics player received assists when someone they are repairing scores a kill, they would get much more points and there would be an incentive to use them. People want stats. So if you want people to use support items, there needs to be a stat for it. But a 360 arc is just horribly unfun and unfair, speaking as someone who used the repair tools a lot for the past 5-6 months.

On a related note : 10% hack bonus on logistics suit. This is a pretty unproductive bonus. A logistics dude should be getting a bonus more suited to his role, which is team support. I could see this bonus being on a scout suit, which is more suited to getting in quickly, and hacking before the enemy can respond. Logistic suits should get a bonus related to repair + resupply. I think someone else made a decent post about this (Sorry I forget your name) Suggesting that logistics should get a bonus to repair amount or range, or faster resupply rate with nanohives, or more nanite capacity with nanohives, stuff like that.


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Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.08.11 22:43:00 - [1] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: First : Logistics repair tools having 360 degree range after lock. You won't need to keep looking at someone after locking them. This is utterly horrible. It promotes 'lazy logi' and turns logistics from something that takes effort and skill into something super easy... maybe too easy to do. If you want to repair someone you should have to take the effort to keep them in your field of view. Talking to CCP dudes it seemed like it was a change done because not enough people were using the repair tools. I highly dispute that this fix was the proper one. The issue with repair tools was simple. A logistics player simply did not get enough points compared to combat focussed players. There was no real incentive to use them, especially since there was no real reason to care about winning or team play in the beta when all everyone wants is skillpoints. If a logistics player received assists when someone they are repairing scores a kill, they would get much more points and there would be an incentive to use them. People want stats. So if you want people to use support items, there needs to be a stat for it. But a 360 arc is just horribly unfun and unfair, speaking as someone who used the repair tools a lot for the past 5-6 months. On a related note : 10% hack bonus on logistics suit. This is a pretty unproductive bonus. A logistics dude should be getting a bonus more suited to his role, which is team support. I could see this bonus being on a scout suit, which is more suited to getting in quickly, and hacking before the enemy can respond. Logistic suits should get a bonus related to repair + resupply. I think someone else made a decent post about this (Sorry I forget your name) Suggesting that logistics should get a bonus to repair amount or range, or faster resupply rate with nanohives, or more nanite capacity with nanohives, stuff like that. On this, I take umbrage my good sir! The ability to look in a 360 degree arc (AKA all around the player) is a necessary ability. Let me point you to the role of Medic in TF2. The Medic need only lock his target to begin healing him, then he may continue until he either loses his Line of Sight or the target gets too far away. Because he doesn't need to stare at the target's ass, he can be on the lookout for other enemies, ambushes, etc.. If all he had to do was stare at someone's ass, he would be the very definition of a 'lazy logi'. As for the assists, yes I think you should receive bonus for assists, to draw another Medic comparison, it is where he gets most of his points, just from healing the target as he gets a kill. As for hacking, that IS support. Although giving scouts the hack rate in lieu of Logi getting repair rate bonuses, think of it this way: you and a logibro get to A. Whomever is hacking can't be fighting. Who would do the hack? The support unit or the combat unit? ...yes, I refer to Medic a lot, I used him exclusively, ok?
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.08.12 02:31:00 - [2] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: On this, I take umbrage my good sir! The ability to look in a 360 degree arc (AKA all around the player) is a necessary ability. Let me point you to the role of Medic in TF2. The Medic need only lock his target to begin healing him, then he may continue until he either loses his Line of Sight or the target gets too far away. Because he doesn't need to stare at the target's ass, he can be on the lookout for other enemies, ambushes, etc.. If all he had to do was stare at someone's ass, he would be the very definition of a 'lazy logi'. As for the assists, yes I think you should receive bonus for assists, to draw another Medic comparison, it is where he gets most of his points, just from healing the target as he gets a kill. As for hacking, that IS support. Although giving scouts the hack rate in lieu of Logi getting repair rate bonuses, think of it this way: you and a logibro get to A. Whomever is hacking can't be fighting. Who would do the hack? The support unit or the combat unit? ...yes, I refer to Medic a lot, I used him exclusively, ok? How is having the logi player able to ignore the dude(s) he is repairing and actively watch for flankers a good thing? I am firmly against anything that removes the possibility of flanking. A person repairing another should be focussing their attention on their target. I also forgot to mention in my OP that hacking gets this same problem. As it is now... You can easily flank someone while they hack. They need to have teammates watching their back. With the new patch, you can easily start the hack then turn around, and it is no longer possible for them to flank you. You can easily stop your hack, kill them and then restart it. That is -very- bad and discourages team play. So you want the Logi's entire existence to be 'watching heavy ass.... watching assault ass.... dead because a scout snuck up behind me.... watching assault ass.... dead due to the dropship I couldn't see cuz I can't turn...' That isn't a Logistic Merc, that's an Armor Repair Drone. He isn't ignoring the guy he is healing. Watch ONE Medic play a round of TF2, and you will see it's his job to both remain aware of the patient, while watching for Scouts who want to pick him off, Spies (Scout suits with shotguns) who want to stab his patient, and Snipers who want to keep him in line-of-sight. With the ability to turn, you have the role of extra eyes, intel gathering, and awareness beyond someone's ass. Also, if you're against ANYTHING that hurts flanking, maybe we should nerf the ability to turn, make it so you can either go forward or change facing :P Also, I don't much care for the hacking 360 thing, probably added it because people kept turning too much and killed their hack, but if a Logi is hacking your point, it is BECAUSE HE AND HIS TARGET GOT THERE. So who hacks? The guy with the minigun, or the guy with the SMG? Then the HMG weilder is, as you put it, the 'teammate... watching their back.' Plus, as someone pointed out earlier Logi is Logistics, he is covered in computers so he has the best inherent equipment for the job. Seriously, the Repair Tool is shaping up to be exactly like a TF2 Medigun. Go play that free game, or watch a youtube video of a decent Medic, see exactly how 'horrible' it is that he can turn while healing. You will get no sympathy from me Mr. Knife.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.08.12 04:26:00 - [3] - Quote One more thing on the 360 ability for the repair tool. They may add multi target ones. Imagine the hassle of using a multi target repper if you can't have them all stand in front of you, relatively still, while you may go under fire any minute.