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Drommy Hood
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
242
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Posted - 2012.08.03 20:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
50 mil for a tank sounds fair........
.........CWAZYYY!!! |
Drommy Hood
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
242
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Posted - 2012.08.03 20:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Traynor Youngs wrote:Drommy Hood wrote:50 mil for a tank sounds fair........ .........CWAZYYY!!! I feel that perhaps you don't understand the economy of Eve well enough to state an opinion on whether the economy of DUST can or should be integrated with the economy of Eve. So I will ignore it.
Look me up 'drommy' was playing eve when you was in nappies. It talks of burn rates ect. Well I wouldn't expect to loose a full fitted tier 2 BC at the same rate I loose marauders. Its all about perceived worth. If you was expecting to loose your suit 5-10 times in a match, it cannot cost as much as an interceptor, if an interceptor had a life or burn rate of 3-5 mins don't think you'd see many people in anything more than a rookie ship. Increasing isk to 50m per match is out of the question as well, otherwise dust players are earning a lot more than eve players for a lot less risk, which after everything its what its about; risk vs reward.
Dust players risk relatively little compared to eve players, because our equipment is disposable. |
Drommy Hood
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
242
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 20:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Traynor Youngs wrote:Drommy Hood wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote:Drommy Hood wrote:50 mil for a tank sounds fair........ .........CWAZYYY!!! I feel that perhaps you don't understand the economy of Eve well enough to state an opinion on whether the economy of DUST can or should be integrated with the economy of Eve. So I will ignore it. Look me up 'drommy' was playing eve when you was in nappies. It talks of burn rates ect. Well I wouldn't expect to loose a full fitted tier 2 BC at the same rate I loose marauders. Its all about perceived worth. If you was expecting to loose your suit 5-10 times in a match, it cannot cost as much as an interceptor, if an interceptor had a life or burn rate of 3-5 mins don't think you'd see many people in anything more than a rookie ship. Increasing isk to 50m per match is out of the question as well, otherwise dust players are earning a lot more than eve players for a lot less risk, which after everything its what its about; risk vs reward. Dust players risk relatively little compared to eve players, because our equipment is disposable. That argument makes a lot more sense, and in the context of burn rates, look at the top end of what a dust fight could possibly cost a corp. If every person had the best gear, and they lost all of their clones, take that clone count, multiply by the cost, and that is what that corp is able to risk in a match in terms of suits, add in tanks and such. Now, compare that with a typical medium range fight in Eve where the players have T2 ships and logistics, but all sub capital. It is not difficult for a 10-15 man gang to be well over 1 billion isk being risked. How expensive do suits and vehicles need to be to be pushing a billion in a match? When DUST becomes part of the warfare landscape of Eve son warfare, how much will an alliance like NC care if the entirety of the DUST campaign costs them 3-4 billion? Will they give a shite if the DUST bunnies win or lose? Thats a problem.
I get what your saying, but your not taking into account that in eve you can wait all week for a fight, and even then if your lucky/very good you still don't die. Its massively unlikely that you ever live a whole match which you'll have probably 10 of in a couple of hours. Let's say your very good in eve and play for 100 hours, you'll likely die 10 times (unless your mining / pve then its more like 0 might I add). You play dust for 100 hours, 3 matches per hour, 5 deaths per match (very conserva , fort me atleast lol) that's 1500 suits before vehicles a ratio of 150:1
Things cannot cost those prices.... |
Drommy Hood
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
242
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 20:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mr Vito wrote:Or we have weapons/vehicles/modules for Dust as producible items in Eve, which they can then put on the market. Supply and demand will dictate costs. So long as it's taken into consideration that you can make a LOT of rifles out of a cubic meter of tritanium.......
I think that's the end plan, but it still doesn't help balance the isk. I think the only way to stop people from dumping risk from one game to another is just to stop it all together. But that's contradictory of the sand box. The rich get richer and the poor can't catch up. That's the way of the world and the way of eve. The small corp can't compete with the iskof the big alliance, goons for eg. All they can hope to compete on is skill. Which thankfully this game needs. No punching ya macro button going down the list of hits on a scanner. An no uneven numbered fights. Having unlimited risk and allies in dust gives you an advantage, but not the one it gives you in ebe . |
Drommy Hood
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
242
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 21:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Traynor Youngs wrote:Mr Vito wrote:Or we have weapons/vehicles/modules for Dust as producible items in Eve, which they can then put on the market. Supply and demand will dictate costs. So long as it's taken into consideration that you can make a LOT of rifles out of a cubic meter of tritanium....... I tend to lean toward the free market side as well, however, it may have unintended consequences if a newby miner can mine enough to produce 1,000 rifles... But maybe it would work out. As for the prototype gear, I am clearly off in my cost idea. I still think however that vehicles and structures should be a significant investment and a significant risk relative to what they are now. @Drummy, That is a good point, the burn rate per match may be off, but the FPS gameplay of DUST is much more consistently high in relation to Eve. There are however some items which will see a more Eve like burn rate, like war barges, structures that are district upgrades, etc. I expect a well piloted tank will see a life span similar to a HIC in a capital fight.... i.e. it depends on how well the enemy is paying attention...
It depends on their burn rate. If a tank for 10 hours will cost (1 tank per match, 3 matches an hour, 10 hours, v conservative again)thats min 30 tanks. A hic might last a cap fight but you don't have a cap fight every 10 hours.
What needs to be done is: total average isk destroyed per hour in eve/Average players per hour in eve. = X isk per average player per hour.
Then average matches per dust player per hour=Z Average drop suits lost per match=S Average vehicle losses per match=V
(S x Z)+(V x Z) = X
That is that the amount of drop suits + vehicles lost per hour, per player in isk should be similar to that of the loss of isk of a player in eve.
That gives you a base to work at, an average , then if you think that probably most of the isk is lost on high end equipment., you've got to work out what low end to high end should cost based on what will keep the AVERAGE dust players isk loss the same as the AVERAGE eve players |
Drommy Hood
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
242
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 21:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
ryan valentine wrote:- match payouts increase according to player SP (since balanced match-making is in the works anyway)
- bp's of Dust gear create stacks of items as opposed to single run (say 20 at a time)
- free-market takes care of the rest
I say 'takes care of the rest', because what's the point of a 30 million dollar grenade if no one can buy it. As long as match payouts scale according to sp then the winners are making isk relative to the tech level of the gear they are using. That way, match payouts will determine how much can be reasonably charged by industrialists. Over charge and no one can afford to buy it, industrialist makes no money. Industrialist relists items at a more reasonable price. While a single AR may only cost a few thousand isk if your buying (or selling) stacks of a hundred due to burn-rate then it seems sensible to assume that the industrialist is still putting away a few hundred thousand for their effort (which is relative to teir I frigate cost) and doing so far more regularly than they would if they were mass producing cheap entry level frigates. Again, think about the burn-rate.
AR = 5000 isk x 100 = 500,000 isk
All bp's in the beginning will be npc sourced anyhow, allowing for an average mean price to be established. Sure, the issue of Eve magnates funding Dust campaigns is an issue but isn't that the whole point to the game? If planetary control actually had some influence on Sov (if not at launch then at least soon after) then the ground wars would quickly become isk sinks for those attempting to turn the tides of conflicts on the strength of their financial holdings alone. Even if 10 million isk is no biggie to the Eve Corp it will become one if your dropping it every 25 minutes in an attempt to control Sov. A week later and you will have burned through billions.
Yep. Also the price of mins needed to make each item will be the main price creator as long as blueprints are fairly readily available. If its hard too squire the bp's then your at the mercy of the few. If they're as available as ammo bps then the cost will eventually settle just over the brake even price of build. If min prices increase then contracts would have to increase at the same rate.
I wonder though how we will use the same markets when we can't travel to pick stuff up though? |
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