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To everyone who thinks the HMG and Heavy Armor are underpowered...

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Asher Night Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:21:00 - [1] - Quote Do you even play this game? Seriously, the only time I can ever kill a heavy machine gunner nowadays is when they suck at aiming. I've came up behind heavies while using the Boundless SMG and the Ishukone (whatever) SMG and the only time I can ever kill them is if their aiming sucks. Doesn't matter if I empty an entire clip into them, they will still at least manage to turn around, andf the SMG is so weak at a distance you NEED to be close to do enough damage with two clips to kill a heavy, so they always at least get to start firing, and often do take me out. That's more than any other suit can say when I catch them from behind with my Boundless Breach SMG. If I ever come around a corner and the HMG user and I meet face to face, they almost always get the kill, so corner control goes hands down to the HMG. God have mercy on my soul when I meet the fat suits that prefer to run around with the Creodon Breach AR's and Remote Explosives instead of HMG's. I saw someone go 34 and 6 using the fat suit and HMG, and no - he didn't get the majority (or any) of his kills sitting in a tank. I seriously doubt this combo is underpowered. Seriously, if any one is complaining about either the HMG or the Fat suit, they clearly haven't gotten all the skills/upgrades/modules/versions of these. EDIT: Thanks for the tips, but please stop giving me advice on how to deal with heavies. I already know what to do. That isn't why I made the topic. I have a 2.5 to 1 KDR, so I know how to handle myself, I was just saying the Heavy+HMG combo isn't worthless like so many scrubs keep making it out to be.
Boksoon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 11	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:24:00 - [2] - Quote I think it depends largely on the map. On plateau there's hardly a situation where I can even get near a heavy. On ambush maps (aside from plateau) with lots of corners and cover it's very easy to take down heavies, especially when they're alone.
Zeran Haggai Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 196	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:30:00 - [3] - Quote Once you get skilled up to proto it gets better, but at basic and even advanced level it's complete garbage. Also when you run up on that heavy and spray him in the back with your smg try strafing as he turns, if your a proper fit scout theres no way you should be letting him 180 and aim on you with that horrendous turn speed we have
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:32:00 - [4] - Quote Heavy Machine guns used to keep assault rifle users heads down at engageable ranges. Now an asault rifle user laughs at such prospect. I say at least increase range again heat buildup is good enough to prevent getting super accurate. Problem with HMGs now is they're just oversized shotguns and poor ones at that with the heat build up. Its just much easier to reload than to let the heat die down.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:35:00 - [5] - Quote If you're in a Scout suit you need to strafe and dodge around him more efficiently.
UnclS2 Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 6	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:44:00 - [6] - Quote All I can suggest Asher is to try out a heavy suit / HMG combo for yourself because honestly the dps coming out of the basic HMG is worse than the malitia assult rifle if you factor in accuracy. However the guy may have gotten into an advanced or proto heavy suit like you said but I miss the heavy from the last build to be honest. It was a viable option for an anti infantry or anti armor loadout and when I ran into one and I was by myself the best option was to run away! If you want to win 1 on 1 against a heavy in this build and the SMG range is a problem for you the sidearm sharpshooter (I think that's the one) skill is the awnser to your problems. If you max that skill out Your SMG should almost have the range of an AR, if you also beef up the weaponry skill and the SMG operation to increase your damage output it can make the SMG really lethal. One more tip, you can put the SMG in your light slot and your sidearm slot so you can carry 2 which also helps if you put on sidearm damage mods so both of your weapons are covered. Use a breach SMG in the light slot for when yor moving in and an assult SMG as your sidearm to finish them off and you will do really well 1 on 1 agains heavys. On a side note I find the fact that it can be easy to beat a heavy in a 1 on 1 fight disturbing
Entruv Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2012.07.29 18:00:00 - [7] - Quote I have maxed out AR skills for dmg and run with 2 dmg mods 90% of the time. Heavy suits are incredibly hard to take down. I've emptied an entire AR clip into them and they have still killed me and I'm sure most of my shots hit. I feel that armor tanks better then shields and aren't on par with each other atm. I could be wrong but I know it was this way in EvE for a long time.
Zeran Haggai Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 196	Posted - 2012.07.29 18:08:00 - [8] - Quote Entruv wrote: I have maxed out AR skills for dmg and run with 2 dmg mods 90% of the time. Heavy suits are incredibly hard to take down. I've emptied an entire AR clip into them and they have still killed me and I'm sure most of my shots hit. I feel that armor tanks better then shields and aren't on par with each other atm. I could be wrong but I know it was this way in EvE for a long time. If you're running max AR Skills there is no way you're hitting most of your shots on even a proto heavy and not killing him with a full clip. Full clip on a creodron AR with no skills is like 2k, that alone is more than enough to down a proto heavy suit.
Gelan Corbaine BetaMax. 103	Posted - 2012.07.29 18:36:00 - [9] - Quote Heavy with RE's ? Does........not...compute .
Xocoyol Zaraoul Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 259	Posted - 2012.07.29 18:41:00 - [10] - Quote An AR outperforms an HMG in literally every department: Accuracy, range, reload, total damage potential, Alpha, Cost, CPU, Powergrid, even Damage--Per-Second. As interesting as an HMG is on a heavy suit, it is more deadly with an AR.

pjster long Doomheim 28	Posted - 2012.07.29 18:58:00 - [11] - Quote Asher Night wrote: Do you even play this game? Seriously, the only time I can ever kill a heavy machine gunner nowadays is when they suck at aiming. Ok, heavy machine gunners suck at aiming.
Ion Crush Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 32	Posted - 2012.07.29 19:30:00 - [12] - Quote The heavy suit really comes into its own at the adv suit and weapons. Before that i was just a target for Assaults with ARs... but scouts with SMGs have never a worry though. And the more corners and the tighter the map the better for the HMG, gets them in range where I can tear them apart.
Asher Night Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.07.30 03:03:00 - [13] - Quote Ion Crush wrote: "...scouts with SMGs have never a worry though. And the more corners and the tighter the map the better for the HMG, gets them in range where I can tear them apart." This. Perfectly stated. The SMG might do respectable damage at a greater range than the HMG, but the HMG is a blender up close, plus the heavy armor you wear while using it makes SMG bullets seem like snowflakes. Not to mention there are tight corners in every map. Though I will admit it would be more difficult to attack a map while using an HMG than it would be to defend it.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.30 03:23:00 - [14] - Quote If I can get behind a Heavy with HMG as a Scout, I win. If I have one of my AR builds, and i can keep distance, I win. If I can't, I die. It's that simple, really. Play to your advantages, not the other guy's, and you'll beat him.
Xerophobe Ellecon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2012.07.30 03:37:00 - [15] - Quote Heavy machine guns are horrible at anything other than close or medium range due to the low accuracy. It also has the longest reload and it can overheats. Heavy drop suits are slow and have no slots for equipment. seems perfectly balanced to me
Icy Tiger 496	Posted - 2012.07.30 04:38:00 - [16] - Quote Heavy Machine Guns are useless outside of Biomass.
Bresker Veyne Algintal Core Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2012.07.30 04:50:00 - [17] - Quote Heavy Machine Gunners are awesome at plateau, just need a little creative thinking! I love to fly around in my free militia dropship, squash a few people on the way and crash next to the guy I want to kill. Then I continue to blast 300 rounds in his face with a HMG. I have felt the sorrow of people when they unload their SMG on me and I simply turn and blast them to the moon. Though it does seem unfair, I don't think smgs are supposed to be a counter to HMG in close quarters. A sniper should be more effective to us though, maybe increase the critical effect on a headshot? But, yes, the saddest thing to see is a fellow heavy armor guy run around with an AR. An AR is just better in every situation, our HMGs don't register most of the shots and it seems like I can't fire anything that is somewhat far ahead. But I think the HMG style feels good, reminds me a lot of the heavy in TF2. But there needs to be something done about the AR. Heavies with ARs just look like little pansies.
Asher Night Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.07.30 05:45:00 - [18] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Heavy Machine Guns are useless outside of Biomass. It's funny you said that because the HMG user I spoke about in my first post who went 34 and 6 was on Plateus Skirmish. I have a pic of his score and name. It was N1ght Roman or something like that. Also, I'm glad to see so many HMG users commenting on how the combo does work for them. You others need to take your ball and go home if you can't kill someone while using the most durable armor, and a high ammo weapon that does massive instant damage up close.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.07.30 06:02:00 - [19] - Quote Asher Night wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Heavy Machine Guns are useless outside of Biomass. It's funny you said that because the HMG user I spoke about in my first post who went 34 and 6 was on Plateus Skirmish. I have a pic of his score and name. It was N1ght Roman or something like that. Also, I'm glad to see so many HMG users commenting on how the combo does work for them. You others need to take your ball and go home if you can't kill someone while using the most durable armor, and a high ammo weapon that does massive instant damage up close. He paid over 400k for that match. Anyway, he has everything maxed - including heavy sharpshooter. With a proto HMG and a Proto heavy suit with probably 2 reppers with a mix of 3 complex damage or shield extenders. You should not be living for more than a second within SMG range and the fact that you are makes me have a sad.
Tupni 27	Posted - 2012.07.30 06:47:00 - [20] - Quote You realize that SMGs in this game are not a primary weapon and deal inferior damage, right? I know you mentioned that, but do you understand? You MIGHT be able to take someone out from behind with one if they were assault, and probably could a scout, but that honestly sounds pretty stupid with a heavy. Basically, stop trying to 1v1 a heavy at close range as ~~a scout~~ anyone with a weak gun. I don't know how new you are to first person shooters, but it's just a bad idea to take on the guy with the most health with arguably the weakest gun that requires the closest range. Anyway besides that, heavies are lightweights in ~~group~~ combat which is ironic and sad.

Tak Kak 22	Posted - 2012.07.30 06:53:00 - [21] - Quote O yea...yea...your the guy always running around with the scout suit and sub machine gun....I have no doubt that scouts have health problems (I hear cancer is horrible) but I don't have much of a problem with them....sure they take a few more shots with the mass driver but when the scouts and assaults come along blowing them up is so much funner. Right now they are about balanced for maintaining their unhealthy slow lifestyle (seriously heavies lay off the carbs).
N1ght Roman Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2012.07.30 07:42:00 - [22] - Quote Ignatius Crumwald wrote: He paid over 400k for that match. Anyway, he has everything maxed - including heavy sharpshooter. lolno
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.30 08:00:00 - [23] - Quote Tupni wrote: You realize that SMGs in this game are not a primary weapon and deal inferior damage, right? I know you mentioned that, but do you understand? You MIGHT be able to take someone out from behind with one if they were assault, and probably could a scout, but that honestly sounds pretty stupid with a heavy. Basically, stop trying to 1v1 a heavy at close range as ~~a scout~~ anyone with a weak gun. I don't know how new you are to first person shooters, but it's just a bad idea to take on the guy with the most health with arguably the weakest gun that requires the closest range. Anyway besides that, heavies are lightweights in ~~group~~ combat which is ironic and sad. My Dragonfly Swarm Launcher build which has the Toxin SMG is actually pretty good at eating Heavies from behind with my "inferior" weapon. I just have to keep moving and not let them get a shot in. It's a bit of a mission against Protosuits, but only because it's a grind, not because they're tough to kill. It's like a crappy boss fight in a kid's game, just grinding away at the massive healthbar while the bad guy lumbers across the screen ineffectually wishing he was less cumbersome.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.07.30 08:05:00 - [24] - Quote N1ght Roman wrote: Ignatius Crumwald wrote: He paid over 400k for that match. Anyway, he has everything maxed - including heavy sharpshooter. lolno A "lol no" is the privilege of the rich, you indigent HMG user.
Zhar Ptitsaa Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2012.07.30 11:51:00 - [25] - Quote Your obviously new to the beta, the HMG are underpowered compared to the other guns not just the last build, i should be able to walk in a room and start taking out people not get one kill then start punching my gun. All the HMG needed was a heat-up time and/or a slight damage nerf CCP went overboard because of people QQ'ing on the forums
Darky SI 232	Posted - 2012.07.30 16:16:00 - [26] - Quote no one know the weakness and suffering of using Heavy/HMG except its users, before you judge it try it and i assure you will comeback with Heavy/HMG is Under-powered. Being killed with HMG few times doesn't mean it is OP for the heavy with HMG to have a chance on the battlefield he has to max out all the skills and use prototype equipment thats just to survive and do well in a the battle which is stupid imo, because other suits (which i tried) can do well on the battle without proto equipments and maxed out skill. Heavy/HMG in the last build 10X better than the current one if you see the current heavy/HMG overpowered then thank your god you didn't play the last build, the HMG got over nerfed (thanks to the QQ) now it doesn't back up half of its previous power. As i told you i am a heavy user sometimes i can go around 20s when i play against a team of noobs but thats the only time i enjoy playing as a heavy most of the time i got circled by scouts with SMG till i die or assault who stays 10 feets away and unload his AR on my head or RE sending my 80K isk proto on the air like a paper. TL;DR: Play the heavy+HMG before you judge it.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.07.30 16:19:00 - [27] - Quote I don't see them as under powered there just a very specialized role- indoor CQC. The first thing I skilled up was heavy/HMG. So i have played my share of it, I just know heavy is not a normal troop that you go running around in the open with. If that's what people are asking to do they should just play as assault. Heavy as it is is an indoor guardian. Just like in TF2.
Impured Heredia Algintal Core Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2012.07.30 16:56:00 - [28] - Quote I'm a HMG user and i destroy most battles (only do skirmish really). yes there's those times i get killed a lot but it mostly by getting outnumbered or being weaken by a previous battle. rarely i get the person who does the run around me with SMG and actually kills me (very annoying when it happens). i do say I'm getting to the point when i barely make a profit from multiple battle and i don't use proto armor yet because i want to be fully equip and developed before risking that much isk per battle. compared to last build yes this is a extreme nerf but i learn to adapt. i use jeeps to get around because it completely dumb to try to go in the open to get from place to place. also love running up to people that worry about the jeep and shoot it even though i jumped out and destroy you before you notice
CaW PHoNOi Doomheim 7	Posted - 2012.07.30 18:08:00 - [29] - Quote As a player who has wasted all his SP into the heavy suit department, along with the HMG and all its goodies. I can tell you that even at full lvl 5 shields, shield regen, dropsuit repair, accuracy, reload, proficiency, cool down time, I can still get owned at a significant distance from a player with a Duvolle or CreoDron (if i spelled it correctly) if they play it right. SMG's are meant for close quarters, not meant as a range weapon. Now I find it funny how an assault and even some recon's come hauling ass towards me to use there great RE tactics, only to find themselves dead before they even get in range of them trying to blow me up. Then there are those players who say "Oh look a heavy and EASY KILL " then, they realize oh **** I picked a fight with the wrong heavy. Needless to say keep playing level up your load-out what ever that may be and well best of luck if you encounter me because I will not go down easily unless I am tripled or even quadruple teamed, then maybe you might have a chance .
CaW PHoNOi Doomheim 7	Posted - 2012.07.30 18:10:00 - [30] - Quote Darky SI wrote: no one know the weakness and suffering of using Heavy/HMG except its users, before you judge it try it and i assure you will comeback with Heavy/HMG is Under-powered. Being killed with HMG few times doesn't mean it is OP ^ This



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