DUST Search - Nanohives need adjustments

GreasyFinger Bumsticker wrote:

Nova Knife wrote:

Straight and simple, nanohives need several adjustments.

First : Armor repairing variants need to be removed. Giving someone back ammo is a massive bonus. Giving them armor for free at a fairly fast rate is overkill if there is no penalty associated with it. This is nothing more than a disincentive for people to use logistics modules as the nanohive fills the dual role for them. You might say that the repair tool being able to move counters this, but generally the repair tool will not save someone while they are being shot in 8/10 cases. They can easily run back to their nanohive after the battle and heal up, or just stand near it and wait for people to come to them. There are repair tools for a reason, and nanohives that repair armor make them less attractive to use and discourages teamwork. Why should your team have logibros if everyone can just chuck out a nanohive?

Second : Resupply rate is much too fast for some weapons, like swarm launchers, forge guns and HMGs. HMG is mostly forgivable, but swarms and forge guns are absolutely not. The rate for these needs to be cut in half at the very least. It is both silly and unfair when I can perch myself somewhere and fire a literal nonstop barrage of swarm or forge rounds. As a general rule, the nanohive should not be able to resupply faster than I can fire. I should be able to run out of ammo if I am firing constantly while sitting on a nanohive.

Nanohives won't be unlimited resupplies in the future from what we're told, so I'm not too concerned about that.

LMAO you mean people figured out a way own your RE's lol?.....i run with armor hives and repair tool just so i can run ppl over by groups because im often without any backup.....hives are fine.

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Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.07.28 18:07:00 - [1] - Quote Straight and simple, nanohives need several adjustments. First : Armor repairing variants need to be removed. Giving someone back ammo is a massive bonus. Giving them armor for free at a fairly fast rate is overkill if there is no penalty associated with it. This is nothing more than a disincentive for people to use logistics modules as the nanohive fills the dual role for them. You might say that the repair tool being able to move counters this, but generally the repair tool will not save someone while they are being shot in 8/10 cases. They can easily run back to their nanohive after the battle and heal up, or just stand near it and wait for people to come to them. There are repair tools for a reason, and nanohives that repair armor make them less attractive to use and discourages teamwork. Why should your team have logibros if everyone can just chuck out a nanohive? Second : Resupply rate is much too fast for some weapons, like swarm launchers, forge guns and HMGs. HMG is mostly forgivable, but swarms and forge guns are absolutely not. The rate for these needs to be cut in half at the very least. It is both silly and unfair when I can perch myself somewhere and fire a literal nonstop barrage of swarm or forge rounds. As a general rule, the nanohive should not be able to resupply faster than I can fire. I should be able to run out of ammo if I am firing constantly while sitting on a nanohive. Nanohives won't be unlimited resupplies in the future from what we're told, so I'm not too concerned about that.
Eskel Bondfree 27	Posted - 2012.07.28 19:03:00 - [2] - Quote I disagree on the first point. Having a static 'healing box' that you can throw to the ground for friendlies near by or others coming this way later on is pretty much a standard in every comparable tactical FPS. It's basic medic equipment and I don't see why it would be 'overkill'. There are some points you need to keep in mind: nano hives that repair armor require a significant amount of SP that the average assault/heavy player is less likely to invest they also require much cpu/pg that, again, the avarage assault/heavy player is more likely to put into additional HP or damage mods in the future, there will probably be a wide range of equipment available for offensive roles, and non-logi suits only have one equipment slot (as far as I've seen) you have a fixed amount of nano hives that you can toss out (2 most of the time); personally I don't like this, which is why I proposed to be able to pick nano hives up again to carry them somewhere else (see here) nano hives repair at a lower rate than repair tools (from my personal observation), but I stand to be corrected on that since the repair tool effectiveness seems to be measured in absolute values, while the nanohive has a relative percent number (not sure how to compare the two) you can't use a nano hive to repair an advancing heavy, mobile and static healing tools fill different roles the repair tool is also used to repair vehicles and installations (think 'engineer' instead of 'medic'), so again, it fulfills multiple roles In the end, I think logi players will be the ones who toss out nano hives the most anyway, because they are suited best for this role. But if you chose to play as an assault/medic hybrid in an assault dropsuit, I don't see anything wrong with it, because everybody has the possibility to do this. However, you have a point in saying that the dual use nano hives that are ammo and healing box at the same time might be a bit overpowered. Separating them into 2 distinct categories would be a reasonable idea. Logis would still have the option to equip both variants, but assaults/heavies had to decide for one them.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.07.28 19:24:00 - [3] - Quote The investment is hardly significant. It's something like 280k SP The reason I said it is overkill is precisely the reason you said at the end of your post. A 'healing box' is somewhat standard in games like battlefield. But the fact it gives you ammo too makes it overkill. There is no real penalty for using them, the repairing nanohvies replenish ammo at like a 4% less effective rate or something compared to the normal ammo-only versions, but the difference is so small in practice that it doesn't even matter. Repair tools and vehicle modules should be the only way to 'heal' teammates. Healing deployables are not good IMO. Especially if anyone can use them with only putting a couple hours or less into getting the SP required. If you want to be fixed up you should be working with a teammate who trained into that role. The current implementation more encourages lone wolfing as the nanohives let you repair yourself quickly so you don't really need to rely on teammates for ammo or healing. That is wrong!
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.07.28 19:42:00 - [4] - Quote Firstly, Heavies don't have an equip slot. Just wanted to clear that up. Secondly, it isn't nonstop fire, reloading a Forge or Swarm takes a decent amount of time for reloads, and both are anti-vehicle weapons. Being able to fire except for 'cooldowns' makes sense when the target can do the same... and has 15x EHP. As a Logistics toon, I never use the R hives BECAUSE they are stationary, people tend to run off and leave them useless unless I stick them 5 feet from a spawn, so the Rep tools seem more useful to me. As my Forge toon, using the Forge instantly makes everyone want me dead because either I'm shooting at his tank, I'm shelling him as he runs over no-mans-land, or I'm an easy kill in a dodge incapable fatsuit. And we get 2 shots per tick. TWO. If 'The rate for these needs to be cut in half at the very least' then I either get ONE per tick, which is still faster than the charge rate + reload time, or just don't get ammo every tick, which seems a tad pointless.
GreasyFinger Bumsticker Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 23	Posted - 2012.07.28 20:15:00 - [5] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Straight and simple, nanohives need several adjustments. First : Armor repairing variants need to be removed. Giving someone back ammo is a massive bonus. Giving them armor for free at a fairly fast rate is overkill if there is no penalty associated with it. This is nothing more than a disincentive for people to use logistics modules as the nanohive fills the dual role for them. You might say that the repair tool being able to move counters this, but generally the repair tool will not save someone while they are being shot in 8/10 cases. They can easily run back to their nanohive after the battle and heal up, or just stand near it and wait for people to come to them. There are repair tools for a reason, and nanohives that repair armor make them less attractive to use and discourages teamwork. Why should your team have logibros if everyone can just chuck out a nanohive? Second : Resupply rate is much too fast for some weapons, like swarm launchers, forge guns and HMGs. HMG is mostly forgivable, but swarms and forge guns are absolutely not. The rate for these needs to be cut in half at the very least. It is both silly and unfair when I can perch myself somewhere and fire a literal nonstop barrage of swarm or forge rounds. As a general rule, the nanohive should not be able to resupply faster than I can fire. I should be able to run out of ammo if I am firing constantly while sitting on a nanohive. Nanohives won't be unlimited resupplies in the future from what we're told, so I'm not too concerned about that. LMAO you mean people figured out a way own your RE's lol?.....i run with armor hives and repair tool just so i can run ppl over by groups because im often without any backup.....hives are fine.
howard sanchez Conspiratus Immortalis 448	Posted - 2012.07.28 20:34:00 - [6] - Quote GreasyFinger Bumsticker wrote: Nova Knife wrote: Straight and simple, nanohives need several adjustments. First : Armor repairing variants need to be removed. Giving someone back ammo is a massive bonus. Giving them armor for free at a fairly fast rate is overkill if there is no penalty associated with it. This is nothing more than a disincentive for people to use logistics modules as the nanohive fills the dual role for them. You might say that the repair tool being able to move counters this, but generally the repair tool will not save someone while they are being shot in 8/10 cases. They can easily run back to their nanohive after the battle and heal up, or just stand near it and wait for people to come to them. There are repair tools for a reason, and nanohives that repair armor make them less attractive to use and discourages teamwork. Why should your team have logibros if everyone can just chuck out a nanohive? Second : Resupply rate is much too fast for some weapons, like swarm launchers, forge guns and HMGs. HMG is mostly forgivable, but swarms and forge guns are absolutely not. The rate for these needs to be cut in half at the very least. It is both silly and unfair when I can perch myself somewhere and fire a literal nonstop barrage of swarm or forge rounds. As a general rule, the nanohive should not be able to resupply faster than I can fire. I should be able to run out of ammo if I am firing constantly while sitting on a nanohive. Nanohives won't be unlimited resupplies in the future from what we're told, so I'm not too concerned about that. LMAO you mean people figured out a way own your RE's lol?.....i run with armor hives and repair tool just so i can run ppl over by groups because im often without any backup.....hives are fine. They're absolutely fine. I hope that with EW we can get a signal suppressive hive. I want the Nano Hive to be the forward operating point in the running battle. The logistics guy should be running behind the assault guys. When he sees them make contact he drops a nanohive at the closest defendable point . He can stand there with a mass driver pitching rounds into or behind the enemy. If a front line guy gets waxed the Logi can run up to inject him on his feet. If he's low on armor/shield they can both fall back to the hive for repair. It's combined arms.
Eskel Bondfree 27	Posted - 2012.07.28 21:16:00 - [7] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: A 'healing box' is somewhat standard in games like battlefield. But the fact it gives you ammo too makes it overkill. Repair tools and vehicle modules should be the only way to 'heal' teammates. Then like I said, split nano hives into two categories, ones that only replenish ammo, and others that only repair armor. No need to remove the armor repping hives altogether. If you want less assaults running around with an armor repping nano hive, just increase the skill or fitting requirements. And I'll repeat what I said before: assaults only have one equipment slot, and there will be certainly equipment available in the future that many assaults would chose over a nano hive. Besides, the problem of self healing assaults is not limited to nano hives, because as it is now, repair tools can also be used to heal yourself and nothing stops an assault from using one. Not to mention that shield tanked drop suits have self regeneration anyway for the bulk of their hit points. Getting rid of dual use nano hives is fine, but imo there is no valid reason why healing nano hives should be removed from the game per se.
IR Scifi Algintal Core Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2012.07.30 02:00:00 - [8] - Quote I haven't skilled up to the repping hives yet but if they are an issue as a logi player I could potentially get behind splitting them up into restock / repair variants. The only issue I would see with that is that they should do less healing then a repair tool to give us poor logi guys a fighting chance at still being useful.
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.07.30 02:34:00 - [9] - Quote nanohives need to have a ammo limit too , so they dont sit there for half the game giving people ammo, when the nanohives max ammo amount is given it destroys itself , basicly i think they stay on the field too long.
Ion Axa 2	Posted - 2012.07.30 04:09:00 - [10] - Quote As the op suggested id say sure the only thing i want to see Nanohives and Spawners get is the ability to stick them to walls or ceilings.

Minmatar Slave 74136 Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 291	Posted - 2012.07.30 04:18:00 - [11] - Quote Why stick hives and uplinks to walls and ceilings? I can see that ability for remote explosives, but not hives or uplinks. Im onboard with seperating the roles of ammo hives and healing hives.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.07.30 05:08:00 - [12] - Quote I don't see what the issues is. The whole point of a repair hive is to allow a heavy to better hold down a fixed location, which is exactly what heavies are meant for. They can't deploy the hives themselves, and hive are unrecoverable meaning that once they're placed, they're only good for that specific location. In addition they have rather low health (300 I believe) meaning that a well placed grenade or simply shooting it for a second will destroy it. I feel the Repair Hives fill their role perfectly in helping to fortify objectives, they're not mobile like repair tools, and in most cases repair less than repair tools. This is a perfect example of logistics supporting heavy infantry, and removing it would devalue that role and mechanic. The one thing I might consider for a change is to make them Prototype instead of Advanced, as to force a bit more of an SP sink and specialization.
Eskel Bondfree 27	Posted - 2012.07.30 17:12:00 - [13] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I don't see what the issues is. The whole point of a repair hive is to allow a heavy to better hold down a fixed location, which is exactly what heavies are meant for. They can't deploy the hives themselves, and hive are unrecoverable meaning that once they're placed, they're only good for that specific location. In addition they have rather low health (300 I believe) meaning that a well placed grenade or simply shooting it for a second will destroy it. I feel the Repair Hives fill their role perfectly in helping to fortify objectives, they're not mobile like repair tools, and in most cases repair less than repair tools. This is a perfect example of logistics supporting heavy infantry, and removing it would devalue that role and mechanic. The one thing I might consider for a change is to make them Prototype instead of Advanced, as to force a bit more of an SP sink and specialization. Agreed, never remove repping nanohives from the game. However, the OP does have a point in that assaults who can equip hives that repair and refill ammo are bad. They don't need to rely on logi players anymore and this is very detrimental to the idea of team based game play. Assaults should be forced to lose a significant part of their offensive abilites if they wish to play as a logi hybrid (this should go the other way around for logis, too).


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